Game of Thrones [TV, not the book, no spoilers!] (32 Viewers)

Basel93

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2014
1,572
Starks had 2 episodes in row of good things happening to them. That's far too many. One must day in episode 3.
He gets it :D

Not necessarily die, just used as a political prisoner to squeeze Jon into an unfavorable situation. But hey, Bran is close by too and he isnt gna get high on tree magic forever.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Holy sh*t I just got that. Crazy.

You guys hear of the Hodor theories?

In Sunday's episode, I thought it was very odd how Lyanna came in riding off on a white horse. The show has been pretty great in weaving a lot of symbolism into the show, and digging a bit I thought it was interesting that, in Celtic mythology, Rhiannon is the goddess riding a white horse. Interestingly enough, a big part of her myth is fleeing a marriage her father had arranged. She's eventually caught by a handsome admirer, who marries her and promptly they make a child together. That child ends up immediately kidnapped, and his lineage is only revealed much later in an event that finally allows his mother Rhiannon to be absolved of the accusations of infanticide she had faced. That's probably where the parallels end. Fun coincidence though: in the Rhiannon legend, the kid disappears while in the care of his six sleepy maids, while in GoT Ned rides with six companions to the Tower of Joy. Rhiannon also wakes up in a pool of blood (from a slain puppy), while Lyanna lies in a pool of her own blood (presumably). Rhiannon is also often associated with Epona, which, you guessed it, is a Roman divinity associated with horses and/or a horse in Ocarina of Time. It would then completely make sense for the show to emphasize Lyanna's abilities on a horse ('stop showing off!').

However, what's interesting to me is that Hodor as Wyllis could speak while he can't now, and as a boy he was eager to try fighting while as an adult he hates it. As /u/TazoGreenTea put it, Wyllis could have been a warg too and the loss of his speech would be the result of him spending too much time warging. However, the last episode made a point of showing how Wyllas/Hodor was friendly with Lyanna, and how eager he was to please her and her family. Lyanna acted as a confidence-booster to him, something Old Nan put a stop to when she took him by the ear.

Now, if Wyllis was a warg, what would he warg into? As a stable boy, it would make sense that his choice would be to warg into a horse since, like dogs, they are docile and are accustomed to his presence. And if the (possibly) only girl treating him nicely was Lyanna, it would make complete sense that this is the horse he would warg into. White is a symbol of purity, innocence, and Wyllis/Hodor is all that. He could warg into that horse so that he gets pet, brushed and generally receive attention no girls would give him. Since Rhaegar and Lyanna would eventually run away from everyone, it also makes sense that they would both be on horses while doing so and Wyllis/Hodor would have been witness to many events of that storyline.

So why would Hodor lose his speaking abilities? My guess is that the horse was slain during battle while Hodor was warging into it, which would explain why he is a very much a simpleton now and is afraid of fighting and lightning. Would also explain why Bran is able to warg into a human, because the mind inside the human is an animal's mind (or the remnant of a mind trapped into a horse). Edit: not necessarily the actual horse's mind, but Hodor's mind mixed with a horse's instint, like Bran feels what Summer feels in his 'dreams'. And, even more obvious, it would explain how Hodor has been such a fantastic person to carry Bran because it's litterally what horses do. Besides, Wylis's demise into Hodor would also serve as an amazing warning to Bran about the dangers of warging, and you can see how the Three Eyed Raven almost interjects when Bran says 'Hodor talks!'. Think about it: wouldn't it be an amazing end to Bran's arc this season? Considering how isolated he is, there are few characters that would make an impact on him. Bran even asks Hodor about what happened to him, and Hodor has no answer but Hodor. For now.

TLDR: Hodor is a horse trapped in a human's body.

PS: In the flashback, Wylis already has his scar on his forehead so if he got kicked in the head it happened before and he could still talk afterward. It's also a detail absent in the books, and is there to mask Kristian Nairn's facial tattoos.


by reddit user: gbinasia

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4hnwpz/everything_theory_about_lyannas_horse/


TLDR:
Hodor is a horse
Not bad, but there's a much better one :D

Hodor is shown to be scared of the crypts below Winterfell, it's implied that he wandered in there as a boy and what he experienced there has changed him. After that event he started to only say one word, Hodor, which became his name. Martin has always taken a lot of symbolical inspiration for his names from a variety of sources, very often mythology, with the North especially borrowing quite a few things from Norse mythology. It is precisely there where the god Höðr (also written Hodhr, Hothr, Hothur, Hoder, Hodur, Hodor, Hodr) appears. Who is this god? Apparently Höðr is associated as the god of winter and the cold as well as being the god of darkness unlike his brother Baldr who is god of light (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Höðr)

Now that does sound familiar, doesn't it? Kinda sounds like the relationship between R'hllor (no idea ho to spell this guy :lol:) and the Great Other, god of the Others in Game of Thrones, Melisandrae describes him a couple of times.

So, Hodor going to the crypts, seeing the Ice god, which breaks his mind so he can now only speak the god's name sounds kinda cool and even plausible imo.

TL;DR Hodor is not a joke but evilest and most dangerous being in the whole world.



Bonus: The creators of GoT have been told about the end game of the series by Martin. When they were asked about what they'd heard by journalists, they often said "Hodor". Now it could be just a random gag, but if it isn't....
 

Juventino[RUS]

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2006
29,039
probably Hodor was a witness of something dark/brutal so he received a powerful hit in the head and woke up brain damaged or he was so shocked because of what he saw that he forgot how to speak or he was simply cursed, that's how Wylis turned into Hodor
 

Stevie

..........
Mar 30, 2003
17,785
Scenes have been filmed explaining the hodor thing if anyone wants to know pm me and il tell them what ive learned so far from being on set.
 

Basel93

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2014
1,572
Not bad, but there's a much better one :D

Hodor is shown to be scared of the crypts below Winterfell, it's implied that he wandered in there as a boy and what he experienced there has changed him. After that event he started to only say one word, Hodor, which became his name. Martin has always taken a lot of symbolical inspiration for his names from a variety of sources, very often mythology, with the North especially borrowing quite a few things from Norse mythology. It is precisely there where the god Höðr (also written Hodhr, Hothr, Hothur, Hoder, Hodur, Hodor, Hodr) appears. Who is this god? Apparently Höðr is associated as the god of winter and the cold as well as being the god of darkness unlike his brother Baldr who is god of light (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Höðr)

Now that does sound familiar, doesn't it? Kinda sounds like the relationship between R'hllor (no idea ho to spell this guy :lol:) and the Great Other, god of the Others in Game of Thrones, Melisandrae describes him a couple of times.

So, Hodor going to the crypts, seeing the Ice god, which breaks his mind so he can now only speak the god's name sounds kinda cool and even plausible imo.

TL;DR Hodor is not a joke but evilest and most dangerous being in the whole world.



Bonus: The creators of GoT have been told about the end game of the series by Martin. When they were asked about what they'd heard by journalists, they often said "Hodor". Now it could be just a random gag, but if it isn't....
Yea I've read that too, obviously that's the more plausible theory between the two :D (or is it?)
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Yea I've read that too, obviously that's the more plausible theory between the two :D (or is it?)
Problem with the first one is that plenty of people have died while warging with virtually no repurcussions (Varamir for example like 6 times).

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@Kyle

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I think I found @Stevie on the set...

[video=gifv;idbGjJA]http://i.imgur.com/idbGjJA.gifv[/video]
 

Basel93

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2014
1,572
Problem with the first one is that plenty of people have died while warging with virtually no repurcussions (Varamir for example like 6 times).

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@Kyle

- - - Updated - - -

I think I found @Stevie on the set...

[video=gifv;idbGjJA]http://i.imgur.com/idbGjJA.gifv[/video]

:howler:

If so then PM sent.





Excellent observation actually, however:

Second Life

It is incredibly traumatic for a warg if the animal whose mind they have entered dies while they are controlling it, but the warg will survive this. If a warg's own body is killed while entering the mind of an animal, however, the warg's human consciousness can live on inside of the animal. When Jon Snow killed the wildling Orell by running him through with his sword Longclaw, with his dying breath Orell managed to warg his mind into his eagle. While Orell's human body died, his consciousness survived in the eagle, and proceeded to claw at Jon's face with his new body's talons until Jon was able to fend him off.

Btw who is Varamyr? I was only able to find him referred to in the books.
 

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