[Friendly] Manchester United - Juventus (August 6th, 2008) (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter JCK
- Start date
Sali is a very usefull player (as a back up). Getting him for free was a good move by our officials. He wasn't such a useless player, who scored our winning goal against milan last season? He can play in many positions and thats very important for the team. In a way he's role is similar to angelo di livio's role in the team back in the days....
Not even close.
Thuram was a world class RB and he moved to CB only when he was 32 and he lost his speed.
I agree that the pattern is similar but with Giorgio it happened when he was only 22, when Casiraghi saw that he's a much much better CB than a LB.
I really don't know how can someone say that Chiellini isn't an average LB. He's very clumsy with the ball at his feet, he can't make a simple dribbling even if his life depends on it and technically he's very poor.
I'm lazy to check the serie B threads where people were shocked how whenever Giorgio plays one on one with someone (while we're attacking) he's losing the ball. He can't make crosses at full speed and he doesn't have the same stamina Zambrotta, or even Molinaro has, to be equally involved up front and at the back.
Yesterday i couldn't count a single cross he made but i'll take your word that he had 4 attempts for crosses. 4 attempts is nothing for a full back. Even Molinaro has an average of +3 successful crosses during a match and we know that he makes at least 3 times more unsuccessful crosses.
If Nedved was younger maybe we could do with a full back who's very strong defensively but inexistant in attack. But now we can't and with the players we have and the tactics we use we need a full back who'll run up and down, help the attack all the time and play good defense.
Molinaro maybe isn't such a player, but Chiellini definitely isn't.
It's open for discussion if he'll make a better LB than Molinaro but please don't tell me that he makes a good LB because he doesn't.
We finally found a world class CB and people want him to play LB. And then these same people say that a professional coach who earns millions for the job he's doing knows nothing about football and they claim to know better.
Thuram was a world class RB and he moved to CB only when he was 32 and he lost his speed.
I agree that the pattern is similar but with Giorgio it happened when he was only 22, when Casiraghi saw that he's a much much better CB than a LB.
I really don't know how can someone say that Chiellini isn't an average LB. He's very clumsy with the ball at his feet, he can't make a simple dribbling even if his life depends on it and technically he's very poor.
I'm lazy to check the serie B threads where people were shocked how whenever Giorgio plays one on one with someone (while we're attacking) he's losing the ball. He can't make crosses at full speed and he doesn't have the same stamina Zambrotta, or even Molinaro has, to be equally involved up front and at the back.
Yesterday i couldn't count a single cross he made but i'll take your word that he had 4 attempts for crosses. 4 attempts is nothing for a full back. Even Molinaro has an average of +3 successful crosses during a match and we know that he makes at least 3 times more unsuccessful crosses.
If Nedved was younger maybe we could do with a full back who's very strong defensively but inexistant in attack. But now we can't and with the players we have and the tactics we use we need a full back who'll run up and down, help the attack all the time and play good defense.
Molinaro maybe isn't such a player, but Chiellini definitely isn't.
It's open for discussion if he'll make a better LB than Molinaro but please don't tell me that he makes a good LB because he doesn't.
We finally found a world class CB and people want him to play LB. And then these same people say that a professional coach who earns millions for the job he's doing knows nothing about football and they claim to know better.
A clumsy tackle in our box, even if it hits the ball first could result into a penalty, but a clumsy dribble with a nice cross in the end could result into an assist!!
Certainly Chiellini made that turn into CB earlier but not because he was not a good LB, but because of our emergency lack of material in CB positions, esp after Andrade's injury, Boumsong's fall and Criscito's ownage by Totti.
We sacrifised an LB to get a more vital CB.
Make no mistake, Chiellini was pretty good as a LB, not quite a Zambro heir, but its impossible for any other player to compete with Zambro at his prime.
Chiellini was probably even better at his defensive duties, he has a pretty good acceleration supported with great stamina and a very good cross.
He was our best fullback at the moment and we never had a better fullback until then, counting both sides.
Sure his physique allows him to play as a CB too, he towering frame is intimidating, but Chiellini isnt slow, at least not at this age, he can sweep our flank for 90' and more, he is a defender first and help a great deal our CBs to defend and close all the gaps leading to them and he can also be decisive going forward, IMO this is exactly how a fullback should be, defend super solid first and being capable going forward then, i dont like to see attacking midfielders trying to defend...
I think ppl tend to underestimate his stamina level only because he is big and usually big ppl are slow, but Chiellini isnt, exactly as Thuram wasnt!!
Thuram was not a Cafu either, but he was an exemplary RB and certainly the most solid one in the left flank at his time.
IMO Chiellini has better offensive skills than Thuram had and certainly better defensive+offensive skills than Molinaro has and probably better defensive skills than Zambro had.
It is unfair to underestimate Chiellini's work in our left flank only because he wasnt as effective offensively as Zambro. just look at our other side, do we have any better than there?
Chiellini is better both offensively and defensively than both Zebina and Grygera,
hell not even Salih isnt better offensively anymore...
I dont want Chiellini to come at hid CB position at the age of 30+, but right now he is capable of playing as an LB because he is fast enough and has a very good stamina, i believe in the same standards as the overrated Molinaro, who has nothing more to boast.
But Chiellini exp, positioning and awareness, can help him provide a real support to our CBs, boosting their performances and make their lives easier, intercepting opposition before they even get to them.
On the other hand Molinaro being completely useless defensively forces our defenders to do an extra work to cover up for his own mistakes,
thats why removing him as a threat from within, we can handle the same pressure with an even weaker LCB.
Offensively the quality of the crosses Chiellini provides are eons ahead of Molinaro's and better than our RBs, four aimed crosses in their small box isnt smth Molinaro cant provide in a whole season, not in a single match!!
Chiellini played for years under different coaches as LB and he was good but never even close to becoming WC player. Some PPL here would say he needs just few more years etc...
In only one season and playing at CB position, he is ever closer to become something much more and very important. Not to mention that he was one of best Juves players last season as well for Italy NT squad.
Was it just coincidence as we had injured Andrade or something else its not important..
It tells you enough that is in natural born CB.
In only one season and playing at CB position, he is ever closer to become something much more and very important. Not to mention that he was one of best Juves players last season as well for Italy NT squad.
Was it just coincidence as we had injured Andrade or something else its not important..
It tells you enough that is in natural born CB.
That's right and I think his coaches knew that before, but he was played as a LB (under Capello for example) due to his lack of experience, which is crucial for a CB. Mistakes made by a full-back are not so dangerous for the team as the ones made by a centre-back. And rightfully he started to play in the centre for the Azzurrini and in Serie B, where the pressure wasn't that big, he gained experience and - accidentally because of injured Andrade or not - he showed Ranieri he's ready to play in Serie A there, becoming quickly our best defender.
Well,after whatching the match at the stadium a few things I came up with,
Del Piero and Camo-Without these 2 were fucked for creativity.
Sissoko and Poulsen-Make a very good partnership in the middle.
Chiellini-Quality at CB and LB,I just prefer the partnership he has with Mellberg at CB.
Grygera-Fucking shit right-back full stop,countless times he gets sucked and sucked and sucked and sucked into the middle its frightening,good job it was Lee Martin playing on the wing last night and Not Ronaldo thats all I can say.
But over-all played a very good game,we just lack creativity,and that worries me.
Del Piero and Camo-Without these 2 were fucked for creativity.
Sissoko and Poulsen-Make a very good partnership in the middle.
Chiellini-Quality at CB and LB,I just prefer the partnership he has with Mellberg at CB.
Grygera-Fucking shit right-back full stop,countless times he gets sucked and sucked and sucked and sucked into the middle its frightening,good job it was Lee Martin playing on the wing last night and Not Ronaldo thats all I can say.
But over-all played a very good game,we just lack creativity,and that worries me.
What i do not quite understand is how Grygera played consistently well for the Czech Republic at Euro 2008, and then struggles quite a bit when he plays with Juventus. I do not think he is as bad as u guys said above though, but he really does not push forward as much as he does with the Czechs when he plays with us.
I remember him hitting in some splendid crosses for his colleagues at Euro 2008, however he rarely even gets forward effectively for us it seems. Maybe its because United are quality opposition, though i do not like them. But at the same time, he only rly had to deal with Martin and i suppose Tevez sometimes. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because its the preseason though. Hopefully his performances will improve, because i know he does have the ability in him imo.
I remember him hitting in some splendid crosses for his colleagues at Euro 2008, however he rarely even gets forward effectively for us it seems. Maybe its because United are quality opposition, though i do not like them. But at the same time, he only rly had to deal with Martin and i suppose Tevez sometimes. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because its the preseason though. Hopefully his performances will improve, because i know he does have the ability in him imo.