True that, the driver's title is what matters and Schumi is indeed the greatest.
Buy on AliExpress.com
Formula One 2007 (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter JuveAdam
- Start date
Buy on AliExpress.com
it's hard to simply accept this!!! i've been a mclaren fan ever since i started watching F1. and to see them banned from only one of the 2 sports i ever closely follow is something that i cant easily digest! sorry! it's just like Juve's demotion! none of us accepted it at first, and when we played our first game, we still couldn't believe!
`McLaren refuse to accept WMSC ruling`
Thursday 13th September 2007
A defiant Ron Dennis says he does not 'accept' McLaren's expulsion from the Constructors' Championship or that the FIA proved the team used secret Ferrari material to their advantage.
After an eight-hour hearing in Paris, the team were stripped of all their Constructors' points and handed an unprecedented fine of $100m.
Speaking at a press conference afterwards, team boss Dennis took solace from the World Motor Sport Council decision to permit their drivers to compete for the Drivers' Championship, but denied that it had been proved McLaren had cheated.
"The most important thing is that we go motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season. This means that the drivers can continue to compete for the drivers' world championship," he declared in a statement.
"However, having been at the hearing today, I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputations damaged in this way.
"Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage."
Dennis also insisted that, contrary to reports, the FIA had used incriminating evidence provided by Fernando Alonso and test driver Pedro de la Rosa against the team.
"Much has been made in the press and in the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers. [Hm...doesn't this sound familiar.. :rolleyes2 ]
"The WMSC received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren, and that they have not passed any confidential data to the team.
"The entire engineering team, in excess of 140 people, provided statements to the FIA confirming that they had never received or used Ferrari information.
"We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees, in his home. The issue is, was this information used by McLaren?
"This is not the case and has not been proven to date."
The FIA have announced that they will reveal the reasons for McLaren expulsion on Friday. McLaren CEO Martin Whitmarsh confirmed that the team were considering an appeal but would study the FIA's statement before making their decision.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Redshift, the team will continue racing this year and next year, they're not excluded because, naturally, no one could prove the information was used by the drivers or the employess of the team. Just like Inter fans a year before, Ferrari fans are convinced they were robbed and because of the media bonanza some sort of punishment had to be made. This punishment is silly and it's clear it was given because it had to be given to calm the tensions down.
This is just F1's fucking calciopolli so...FORZA McLAREN, just like it was forza Juve the year before!
Thursday 13th September 2007
A defiant Ron Dennis says he does not 'accept' McLaren's expulsion from the Constructors' Championship or that the FIA proved the team used secret Ferrari material to their advantage.
After an eight-hour hearing in Paris, the team were stripped of all their Constructors' points and handed an unprecedented fine of $100m.
Speaking at a press conference afterwards, team boss Dennis took solace from the World Motor Sport Council decision to permit their drivers to compete for the Drivers' Championship, but denied that it had been proved McLaren had cheated.
"The most important thing is that we go motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and every season. This means that the drivers can continue to compete for the drivers' world championship," he declared in a statement.
"However, having been at the hearing today, I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputations damaged in this way.
"Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated that we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage."
Dennis also insisted that, contrary to reports, the FIA had used incriminating evidence provided by Fernando Alonso and test driver Pedro de la Rosa against the team.
"Much has been made in the press and in the hearing today of emails and text messages to and from our drivers. [Hm...doesn't this sound familiar.. :rolleyes2 ]
"The WMSC received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically that no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren, and that they have not passed any confidential data to the team.
"The entire engineering team, in excess of 140 people, provided statements to the FIA confirming that they had never received or used Ferrari information.
"We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees, in his home. The issue is, was this information used by McLaren?
"This is not the case and has not been proven to date."
The FIA have announced that they will reveal the reasons for McLaren expulsion on Friday. McLaren CEO Martin Whitmarsh confirmed that the team were considering an appeal but would study the FIA's statement before making their decision.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Redshift, the team will continue racing this year and next year, they're not excluded because, naturally, no one could prove the information was used by the drivers or the employess of the team. Just like Inter fans a year before, Ferrari fans are convinced they were robbed and because of the media bonanza some sort of punishment had to be made. This punishment is silly and it's clear it was given because it had to be given to calm the tensions down.
This is just F1's fucking calciopolli so...FORZA McLAREN, just like it was forza Juve the year before!
There are tons of delusional McLaren fans out there that actually think that a team can make a monstrous leap in 5 months. The intellectual property that was stolen from Ferrari was worth at least 5 years of R&D. The weight balance with Bridgestones alone is priceless. And, McLaren fans, don't be thrown off by the fact that there are no exact replicas of any of Ferrari's technical data on the car. McLaren didn't need to re-design there car, they just needed to know the concept behind Ferrari's speed and how to maximise reliability. You can just take an engine or aero element and stick it on you car. What they needed was the concept behind those elements and then they tweaked them to fit theirs. Shear ignorance is the only defense for McLaren here. M fans, take it in stride and wait it out. Ron Dennis the dirtiest player in the pits and always has been. I always got a kick out of hearing him talk about "Fair Play". The fact that McLaren fans beleive him is a joke in itself.
The punishment is weak.
It is nothing like Juventus' demotion. What happened to Juventus was clearly a result of the Inter Milan powers that be, setting up Moggi. If Juventus went and stole players from Inter's team, that might be a more accurate comparison.
Don't try and give what McLaren did credibility by comparing it to Calciopoli. Scandals are not the same and especially this one. I was wondering how you would twist this Vlatko. You eat Ron Dennis' words up with a big spoon.
Ferrari is still the best. Two years ago McLaren were at the head of the FIA to impose a BS "No-Tire Change" rule to screw Ferrari (who had dominated without contest from McLaren for 5 years) and they (McLaren) still lost to Renault. Last year McLaren couldn't find their asses with both hands and they watched Alonso and Schumacher have an epic battle. It was everything F1 was about. Technical development, Driver skill, and Strategy. Now McLaren is back in it and there are more political shenanigans. Just like in the Hakkinen-Schumacher days, when Ferrari were in their last phases of development and Ron Dennis couldn't take it so he would fight against having drivers work as a team and soon enough he had the media saying that the team element in F1 is bad and drivers should fight for themselves. What a master manipulator. F1 has, and still should be a team sport. He has manipulated the media and the FIA to tear down the credibilty and goodness of the sport. Watching Senna and Prost was fun, but it was also a sloppy mess that made F1 look like a sport for babies. I hope Dennis leaves the sport, because he just makes it worse.
Forza Ferrari the greatest racing team of all time.
Forza Schumacher the greatest racing driver of all time... by FAR.
Long Live F1.
The punishment is weak.
It is nothing like Juventus' demotion. What happened to Juventus was clearly a result of the Inter Milan powers that be, setting up Moggi. If Juventus went and stole players from Inter's team, that might be a more accurate comparison.
Don't try and give what McLaren did credibility by comparing it to Calciopoli. Scandals are not the same and especially this one. I was wondering how you would twist this Vlatko. You eat Ron Dennis' words up with a big spoon.
Ferrari is still the best. Two years ago McLaren were at the head of the FIA to impose a BS "No-Tire Change" rule to screw Ferrari (who had dominated without contest from McLaren for 5 years) and they (McLaren) still lost to Renault. Last year McLaren couldn't find their asses with both hands and they watched Alonso and Schumacher have an epic battle. It was everything F1 was about. Technical development, Driver skill, and Strategy. Now McLaren is back in it and there are more political shenanigans. Just like in the Hakkinen-Schumacher days, when Ferrari were in their last phases of development and Ron Dennis couldn't take it so he would fight against having drivers work as a team and soon enough he had the media saying that the team element in F1 is bad and drivers should fight for themselves. What a master manipulator. F1 has, and still should be a team sport. He has manipulated the media and the FIA to tear down the credibilty and goodness of the sport. Watching Senna and Prost was fun, but it was also a sloppy mess that made F1 look like a sport for babies. I hope Dennis leaves the sport, because he just makes it worse.
Forza Ferrari the greatest racing team of all time.
Forza Schumacher the greatest racing driver of all time... by FAR.
Long Live F1.
Not at all. You are a very dillusional McLaren fan. The FIA gave McLaren a weak sentance, and I feel ripped off by their judgement. I don't understand how I ate up anything they said. I hate the FIA, they are a joke and most people who know motorsports, know this. I am sure you do as well.
The only similarity between Stepney-Gate and Calciopoli is that there is a winner and a loser. The circumstances are totally different. Even if I was a McLaren fan, I couldn't twist it that way. Juventus, AC Milan, Fiorentina and others were all caught doing the same thing. McLaren worked alone. That is point one. Point two is that this is not something all the other teams were doing. This is above and beyond any of the shenanigans we know happen in F1. The incidents are not even close. If you choose to stand your team, I can only applaud you for your loyalty, but don't skew the reality to better suit your ego.
The only similarity between Stepney-Gate and Calciopoli is that there is a winner and a loser. The circumstances are totally different. Even if I was a McLaren fan, I couldn't twist it that way. Juventus, AC Milan, Fiorentina and others were all caught doing the same thing. McLaren worked alone. That is point one. Point two is that this is not something all the other teams were doing. This is above and beyond any of the shenanigans we know happen in F1. The incidents are not even close. If you choose to stand your team, I can only applaud you for your loyalty, but don't skew the reality to better suit your ego.
Whatever, I'm a dillusioned McLaren fan, you're a dillusioned Ferrari fan. We obviously can't see things from a similar perspective. I do think the punishment is silly though, there either shouldn't have been a punishment at all or there should have been a more concrete one, ie, McLaren, the drivers and everything connected excluded from the championship. But no, there were not enough concrete evidence so such a drastic punishment wasn't possible, yet no punishment at all wasn't possible either because of the media circus, so a middle ground had to be found and that's what this sentence is. It satisfies everyone involved one way or the other. Just like with Juventus there weren't enough evidence but a punishment had to be made nonetheless.
And you're the one who's fooling himself if you think information espionage doesn't exist in this sport, it does and it's practised by everyone, only McLaren got caught.
And you're the one who's fooling himself if you think information espionage doesn't exist in this sport, it does and it's practised by everyone, only McLaren got caught.
The first paragraph is pretty much dead on. Except that I am clearly not delusional about this circumstance. Also, there HAD to be some punishment, and some was better than none.
If you think, that there has ever been espionage at this level, you are crazy. The other little petty shenanigans, like people sneaking into garages and stuff like that is so minute compared to this. This is by far, the worst thing that has ever happened to the sport. The FIA are cowards and their sentance was sissy.
If you think, that there has ever been espionage at this level, you are crazy. The other little petty shenanigans, like people sneaking into garages and stuff like that is so minute compared to this. This is by far, the worst thing that has ever happened to the sport. The FIA are cowards and their sentance was sissy.
At this level I don't know, I doubt it, but this whole incident was cooked up between two individuals in the end who worked on their own hand. But as a sport in general, technical information espionage is present in Formula 1 since it's beginnings. There are a lot of ways to obtain sensitive information, it doesn't have to be done so blatantly like in this incident.
There were more people involved with the espionage than Stepney and Coughlin. Dennis will remain squeaky clean, but there is a reason that Dennis did not release Coughlin. McLaren has always been a team of winks and flimsy handshakes.
Of course teams have been taking pictures of cars, sneaking into garages and trying to bribe other members of teams. But, this is something that has never been heard of before. Over 780 pages of information from Car Setup all the way to what to bring to the race. This is an entirely different level and that is why the FIA did anything.
Of course teams have been taking pictures of cars, sneaking into garages and trying to bribe other members of teams. But, this is something that has never been heard of before. Over 780 pages of information from Car Setup all the way to what to bring to the race. This is an entirely different level and that is why the FIA did anything.
I don't know Vlatko, I think the unjust get punished eventually. McLaren didn't win once since they tried changing the rules to screw Ferrari. They didn't win since they started telling the media that Coulthard and Hakkinen were equal and they don't favor any driver (a fact that Coulthard recently said was total BS). Ferrari and Schumacher revived themselves with 5 years of blood and sweat. They were rewarded for their hard work by dominating F1 like no one has done before. They did it with hard work and class. They dodged bullets from the English media and they took the high road. McLaren couldn't stand the fact that they are inferior on all levels and instead of doing it the way Ferrari did, they lied, cheated, manipulated and stole. It is sad.
I hope Alonso comes to Ferrari, because his effort and hard work behind the scenes is clearly something that McLaren does not value. Ron Dennis showed how much class he had when he, Schumacher and Alonso were on the podium (I forget which race, but it was a few ago). Little snob. If I were a McLaren fan, I would have wanted him out since the Senna-Prost days.
I hope Alonso comes to Ferrari, because his effort and hard work behind the scenes is clearly something that McLaren does not value. Ron Dennis showed how much class he had when he, Schumacher and Alonso were on the podium (I forget which race, but it was a few ago). Little snob. If I were a McLaren fan, I would have wanted him out since the Senna-Prost days.
McLaren always favoured the equal drivers policy, it was most evident with Senna-Prost. It backfired on them then but it's something I really hold in high regard. Coulthard can say anything he wants, fact is he was never a good driver, pure and simple. The most disgusting moment in any sport I have ever witnessed in my entire life was Schumacher's win in Austria 2002, that's something that makes my stomach wrench every time I think of it. If I was Barichello I would have spit in Schumacher's, Brown's, Todt's and everyone's face. That's the kind of policy Ferrari applies. Yet you speak of hard work and class. Yeah, real class. 
I hope Alonso stays where he is, I used to like Hamilton but he is starting to remind me too much of Schumacher with his ego and arrogance. Yet I know there's a small chance of him leaving, being a Brit and nation's favorite, I still hope that happens, he started to make me sick.
I hope Alonso stays where he is, I used to like Hamilton but he is starting to remind me too much of Schumacher with his ego and arrogance. Yet I know there's a small chance of him leaving, being a Brit and nation's favorite, I still hope that happens, he started to make me sick.
McLaren always favoured the equal drivers policy, it was most evident with Senna-Prost. It backfired on them then but it's something I really hold in high regard. Coulthard can say anything he wants, fact is he was never a good driver, pure and simple. The most disgusting moment in any sport I have ever witnessed in my entire life was Schumacher's win in Austria 2002, that's something that makes my stomach wrench every time I think of it. If I was Barichello I would have spit in Schumacher's, Brown's, Todt's and everyone's face. That's the kind of policy Ferrari applies. Yet you speak of hard work and class. Yeah, real class.
I hope Alonso stays where he is, I used to like Hamilton but he is starting to remind me too much of Schumacher with his ego and arrogance. Yet I know there's a small chance of him leaving, being a Brit and nation's favorite, I still hope that happens, he started to make me sick.
I hope Alonso stays where he is, I used to like Hamilton but he is starting to remind me too much of Schumacher with his ego and arrogance. Yet I know there's a small chance of him leaving, being a Brit and nation's favorite, I still hope that happens, he started to make me sick.
Hamilton is a poor man's Schumacher. He was given everything his whole life. Schumacher scraped his way to the top. I hate Hamilton and everything he stands for. Schumacher was not the worlds nicest or media friendly guy, but he knew how to win. He was no dirtier than Senna, Prost or even the totally over-rated Nigel Mansell. Race driving is a dirty business. You do what it takes to win.
You see everything so black and white. Doesn't matter Barichello was a weaker driver, he won that race and should have been allowed to clinch it. He deserved it, you can't possibly twist this around and not make it sickening. This is a team sport and that's not how a team behaves, or at least should behave.
I agree it is a dirty sport, I never denied Schumacher's ability but no man, apart from a blinded Ferrari/Schumacher fan, will call him the greatest.
I agree it is a dirty sport, I never denied Schumacher's ability but no man, apart from a blinded Ferrari/Schumacher fan, will call him the greatest.