Football vs Soccer (16 Viewers)

[Hydde]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
In my opinion this debate cannot continue because too many of you are bringing in your contempt for U.S. policies into this argument. Statements such as "arrogant" and "ignorant" really have no place in a conversation of this content. It will end up with Sergio and I defending our nations policies and idealism and the others slowly bringing their hidden contempt to the forefront. Reading the posts it is not hard to spot a pattern and the under belly of your arguements.
World Series, National Hockey League, National Basketball League, Major League Baseball. Ask any 8 year old ball player from the Dominican Republic to Kyoto Japan what they dream of...sorry but its all the same be it New York Yankees for the young Japanese player the Montreal Expos for the young Dominican Player or the Florida Marlins for the young Cuban. Unlike football where Spainish kids dream of winning la Liga and the Italian kid dreams of winning the Scudetto in the baseball world there is one league and the rest is training or "pickings" for Major League Baseball. Maybe this self-imposed title of "World Series" is a tad egotistical but at the same time it is lives up to its name because the World's best are playing in the Majors. Bottom line.

Yeah, u are right.. and fliakis said more or less the same.

They call it world series.. because IN FACT there are no teams, or at least a few teams better than the ones who are in the finals. It is still arrogant, or maybe disrecpecfull.. but in fact, it could be said that they are the best in that discipline.

IM not defending that "world series" statement though.

 

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[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
And the only "true" home made sport that was invented in the US is basketball, by Dr. James Naismith of Springfield, massachusetts. Yet that is now the 2nd most played sport

Sergio wasn't he Canadian though?? I remember reading that the first actual game was played at Mcgill University in Montreal and later he brought the game in its current form to Massachusetts. or am I wrong?

 

[flieeeekke]

i think he invented the game in springfield. for some time i even thought it was invented by a guy named springfield :embarass:

 

[IncuboRossonero]

sorry Fli I edited my post..realized a mistake..

 

[KB824]

Baggio, why do you care if America has taken rugby and adapted it to make it its own? Why should they have to adapt to the rest of the sporting world??

These are sports that are taken and re-invented into our own.

No one seems to have a problem with Australia changing the rules of rugby and calling it Australain Rules Football.

And I gues Australia and Canada would be ignorant as well, since they call it soccer and not football.


I'm not really sure what on earth your problem is. If you don't like the American way of sports, don't follow it. It's that simple.

We're not trying to force these sports down anybody's throats.

Hockey is a global sport, and the best of them play in America.
Baseball is a golbal sport, especially in Latin America, japan, and the rest of the Asian countries, and the best come to play in America.

Basketball is the 2nd most played sport in the world, and is truly international, but yet again, the best of the bunch come to play in America.

The only sport that hasn't caught on is American Football, with the exception of Canada and mexico. Yet, when the NFL used to hold their exhibition matches in London, they would sell out Wembley Stadium. Trust me, the NFL isn't trying to force it down anyone's throats. It's just that so many foreign courntries are infatuated with American Culture, and football happens to be a big part of it, so there you go.

We're not trying to force these sports on these other countries, they've already been accepted on a global scale, with the only one being football, and you guys already have Rugby and Australian Rules Football, which are the predecessors of American Football.



And by the way, when I see a Rugby player who is 6 ft 6 inches tall, 315 pounds, and can run a 4.9 second 40 yard dash, then you come and talk to me about Rugby players being bigger.

There is obviously something deeper here with you, to be all up in arms about our sports.


Anyway, this is all I'm going to contribute further to this thread, because I don't like where its heading.

 

[flieeeekke]

calm down serge. if this thread will go too far it will be closed. dont worry.

in fact, americans do push their sports to other people's throats. i dunno much about others but nba's invasion to the rest of the world is very clear. exhibition games around the globe, stern's plans to create nba teams in europe. i dont like that one bit. i like the way basketball is played here, less technical, more tactical. maybe that is why i love italian football. american see the possibility of market in europe and they want to take over it. not literally, but like they did with mcdonald's there's nothing wrong with it but i just dont like it.


and fot the note, there is a professional american football league in germany i think. erik, your thoughts?

 

[Layce Erayce]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++


Hockey is a global sport, and the best of them play in America.

Ice or field?

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by Fliakis ] ++
calm down serge. if this thread will go too far it will be closed. dont worry.

in fact, americans do push their sports to other people's throats. i dunno much about others but nba's invasion to the rest of the world is very clear. exhibition games around the globe, stern's plans to create nba teams in europe. i dont like that one bit. i like the way basketball is played here, less technical, more tactical. maybe that is why i love italian football. american see the possibility of market in europe and they want to take over it. not literally, but like they did with mcdonald's there's nothing wrong with it but i just dont like it.


and fot the note, there is a professional american football league in germany i think. erik, your thoughts?

If there weren't so many good Europeans and Chinese players coming in, (Ming, Ginobilli, Parker, Stojacovic, divac, Gasol), Then I'm sure that the interest worldwide in the NBA wouldn't be as big as it is now.

And again, I don't agree with the"shoved down their throats" theory.

I would assume that the rest of the free world could make up their own mind on what to like and what not to like.

 

[baggio]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
No one seems to have a problem with Australia changing the rules of rugby and calling it Australain Rules Football.

And I gues Australia and Canada would be ignorant as well, since they call it soccer and not football.

I'm not really sure what on earth your problem is. If you don't like the American way of sports, don't follow it. It's that simple.

We're not trying to force these sports down anybody's throats.

Hockey is a global sport, and the best of them play in America.

Baseball is a golbal sport, especially in Latin America, japan, and the rest of the Asian countries, and the best come to play in America.

Basketball is the 2nd most played sport in the world, and is truly international, but yet again, the best of the bunch come to play in America.

The only sport that hasn't caught on is American Football, with the exception of Canada and mexico. Yet, when the NFL used to hold their exhibition matches in London, they would sell out Wembley Stadium. Trust me, the NFL isn't trying to force it down anyone's throats. It's just that so many foreign courntries are infatuated with American Culture, and football happens to be a big part of it, so there you go.

We're not trying to force these sports on these other countries, they've already been accepted on a global scale, with the only one being football, and you guys already have Rugby and Australian Rules Football, which are the predecessors of American Football.


And by the way, when I see a Rugby player who is 6 ft 6 inches tall, 315 pounds, and can run a 4.9 second 40 yard dash, then you come and talk to me about Rugby players being bigger.

There is obviously something deeper here with you, to be all up in arms about our sports.


Anyway, this is all I'm going to contribute further to this thread, because I don't like where its heading.

Why would anyone have a problem with Aussie rules football, they play that at home and then send out a rugby team that goes on to become world champions?!

Hockey is a global sport?! Yea, your right, field hockey is a global sport.

Japan and Latin America do not make Baseball a global sport. Cricket would be a better example.

Your saying you dont push and market these sports worldwide, then what the hell is the NFL going to wembley for? Why are you guys sending globetrotting basketball teams al over?!?! Common, its only clear these sports are packaged and marketed brilliantly. And since its a buisness there's no harm in growing, but at what cost? At the cost of ignoring activities that are seen by the rest of the world. Espn here, advertises for its telecast of the superbowl 2 weeks in advance. When i couldnt care less for the Broncos and the Packers. But when it comes to cricket, they dont even offer to buy the rights of the world cup??!!? So then what do you call that?

As for a rugby player. Two words: Jonah Lomu!

I think your being extremely sensitive about this, and you seem to be taking it personally, when i dont see there to be any reason for you to do so. Its my point of view, that im expressing, and although I can imagine it to be hard for you to accept the shortcomings of the US. I think im within my rights when im not going any deeper than some very clear facts. So calm down.

 

[KB824]

I am going to say this again, for the last time.

IF you don't like it, don't follow it.

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE. You are obviously an intelligent individual who can make up his own mind. Why does it bother you that the US ignores sports like cricket and rugby. Do you honestly think that Americans give a rat's ass if people in Singapore, or India, or Timbuktu, for that matter, don't follow the NBA, NHL, or NFL?? And don't talk about ESPN advertising the Super Bowl for 2 weeks wherever you live, don't blame them, your cable/satellite company saw it fit that they wanted to have ESPN in the first place, so that type of advertising comes with the territory.

And whoever this Jonah Lomu is, I guarantee you that there are 100 NFL players who are just as big as him, so naming ONE doesn't cut it.

And Ice hockey's not a global sport?? REALLY??

Why, because they don't play it in your country??

So what does that make the US, Canada, Great Britain, France, Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, all the countries of the Former Soviet Union, The Czech Republic, Japan, Germany, Switzerland?

Why the Hell did the NFL go to Wembley?? OH, I don't know, maybe because 80,000 people wanted to see it. But i'm sure that the powers that be in the NFL had subliminal messages in their advertisements for that game, because there is NO WAY that 80,000 English residents would go to watch that of their own free will, Right?


And don't talk about Americans not accepting sports on a global level. During the Champions tour this summer, every match except for one was a complete sellout. And I'm talking 80,000 seat stadiums like Giants Stadium, and stadiums that were opened for the first time, like Lincoln Financial field when Man U opened up the place, and it's still the largest attendance figure in that stadium.

Even Juve and Barcelona drew 40,000 people here in Boston, for and EXHIBITION match, which Juve, unless they were playing Milan or Roma, would dream of drawing at the Delle Alpi.

Now, I could easily say "Well, what the hell were these european teams doing in the US in the first place?" But you don't hear that from me, because I wanted to go to these matches, as well as everyone else who paid very good money to watch these "meaningless" contests.

look, you have your point of view and I have mine.

Before this gets out of hand, I just want to squash this right now

 

[Layce Erayce]

how about a "we agree to disagree" post?

 

[KB824]

I thought that's what I was trying to say

 

[Layce Erayce]

oh. well....do you have aim/msn?

 

[KB824]

Forgive my ignorance.

Are you talking about Instant messaging??

No I don't. But you can PM me if you need to tell me something in private big boy

 

[kaizer]

judging from the title, i thot this was a thread to discuss the appropriate name...is it football or soccer? guess i was wrong

personally, i dont think americans shove anything down our throat (well, maybe bigMac and coke, and pepsi...well, u get my point ). me, for example...i live in a community where football (that's soccer to the americans ) is "the" sport....ppl breathe football. so, u wud expect all the TV's wud show football games rite. wrong...! i do get a lot of nba coverage (lebron rules! )....nfl, mlb....even nhl @times, and i enjoy watching it. is it a crime to market those sports outside of their country? then why is manU looking to US for new market and a crime was committed coz of the champions tour . as for the "world series" thing....dont the winner play a south american team? i think they do....

 

[Respaul]

I dont really want to get into this discussion, as outside the general fact the writer of the original article is an ignorant twat, I personally couldnt care less.
Having said that, serge... I must respond to a couple of your points...

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
I am going to say this again, for the last time.

IF you don't like it, don't follow it.

Completely Agree

Why does it bother you that the US ignores sports like cricket and rugby. Do you honestly think that Americans give a rat's ass if people in Singapore, or India, or Timbuktu, for that matter, don't follow the NBA, NHL, or NFL??

Well maybe they should, and maybe thats part of the problem... Jus MO

And whoever this Jonah Lomu is, I guarantee you that there are 100 NFL players who are just as big as him, so naming ONE doesn't cut it.

Well not knowing who lomu is , really jus shows that you have no idea about rugby and as such I cant see how you can make the comparisons you have.
How can you compare 2 sports when you clearly know nothing about one of them?
As for him only naming 1... there are many many more... I dont see any more of these type guys when i watch AM Football than when I watch rugby

My opinion on the 2 sports... I only played rugby at school and the only time I played AM Football was while on an exchange program in boston, also whilst at school.

From that little experience I am of the opinion that rugby is a far tougher sport... More physical , more tiring.. everything about it.
The pads take too much out of the hits and the short plays mean you dont get tired.

A friend who plays for a local county AM Football team and a Rugby team told me he also finds rugby far harder and that every injury hes had over his 10 years of playing the 2 games has come from rugby.


Also in my opinion... 90 mins of competitive football is much more strenuous than either of AM Football or Rugby

And Ice hockey's not a global sport?? REALLY??

Why, because they don't play it in your country??

So what does that make the US, Canada, Great Britain, France, Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, all the countries of the Former Soviet Union, The Czech Republic, Japan, Germany, Switzerland?

I dont know about the others but please edit the uk from that list... We do not play ice hockey at any real level... The uk doesnt do 'winter sports' in general
The majority of citizens of this country do not care about the sport and outside of middle of the night highlights on ch5 there is no coverage of ice hockey in this country

Why the Hell did the NFL go to Wembley?? OH, I don't know, maybe because 80,000 people wanted to see it. But i'm sure that the powers that be in the NFL had subliminal messages in their advertisements for that game, because there is NO WAY that 80,000 English residents would go to watch that of their own free will, Right?

Of course people went of there own accord.. we like to see a show.
Again though the following of AM Football is very low in this country and many that do watch it here, see it more as entertainment (like wrestling) than a serious sport

Even Juve and Barcelona drew 40,000 people here in Boston, for and EXHIBITION match, which Juve, unless they were playing Milan or Roma, would dream of drawing at the Delle Alpi.

I disagree... In general games involving what fans like to call the 'BIG' sides the delle alpi has good attendances, whether exhibition or CL... Its little team and the coppa that the fans cant be bothered with.
Theres also a massive difference between a once in a life time opportunity in america and a game in turin where the fans can see them whenever they like

look, you have your point of view and I have mine.

Before this gets out of hand, I just want to squash this right now

Of course.

No offence Serge , but you do get overly protective in any thread that in anyway mentions the US... Cool down and make your point and realise that everyone has their own opinion.. plus of course there are always the odd plebs that act only off of their hatred for a certain place... Dont Feed them... Your better than that.

 

[Layce Erayce]

serge pm's

 

[aressandro10]

i think rugby players has more all round athletic ability than american football players...

to me rugby is more speed in agility while in American football its more speed and mass equal greater momentum....

i found out that american football tackles are rated by how hard the oponents are hit .. as i watch in a game how the comentators are all praising how one player were knocked in the game and tv keep replying it... leaving me guessing what the fuss its all about.. .. the guy was running a straight line and the tackle was seen coming from far....

anyway what i dun like bout AF is how the game keeps stoping after a few seconds... and from different complicated kind of reasons....the game is too complicated IMO... what make football and rugby well supported is how they make it simple...

and i couldnt be more agree when Serge says without those pads, there would be at least 1 death per week.... the game is very violance... in rugby, players have a mutual understanding on how to do the tackle.. mostly the objective is only to pull down players with the ball to the ground. But in AF the players make it their purpose of life to hurt the opponent as hard as they could ( or maybe i watched too much Hollywood football movies ) .. they can tackle anyone they want..... can forget about any frendly words...

I am suprised to see how frendly rugby players are during the last Rugby World Cup.. with their blooded bandage on head and all, applausing their opponents... the love for the sport shine through their eyes.. no quarelling with the referee.. no diving or cheating... no bust up with the opponents... hell... Rugby World Cup is more clean and friedfly than FIFA World cup... as i quote a commentator who quote someone who says. ' Football is a gentleman sport played by ruffians, while rugby is a ruffians sport played by gentlemen...'

 

[KB824]

OK, shadow, I did some research on Jonah Lomu.

He's 6'5, 275 lbs. A big man, certainly in the world of Rugby, but Like I said earlier, when there are about 100 NFL players larger than him, I was wrong.

Make that 200. But I digress. I am NOT knocking rugby at all. I said that I've watched it a few times and found it enjoyable, but I don't know nearly enough about it to pass judgement. You will not find a negative comment on the sport if you read my posts, which I know you did, Paul, as you are very thorough. However, there are people here on this thread that don't knwo very much abvout American Football except what they've seen in the movies, yet they feel are qualified to criticize a sport they know nothing about.

That's what ticks me off. I had stated pretty clearly when this thread had started that I though this American journalist was a jackass, and I didn't agree with him. But he does make a valid point. The DO try to force Soccer down our throats, and the majority of the US doesn't want to hear it. Well, that's their problem, I for one, love football, and always will.


As far as Hockey in the UK is concerned, I'm 99.99999% positive that there is a professional league of some sort in England, maybe not to the extent of the NHL, the Swedish Leauge, or the Russian Super League(which I love), but there was a story on a former pro player here in boston who went to play for a squad in England.

I've got nothing against baggio or anyone in this thread, but the comments start to fly that we are "ignorant" and "arrogant", and is there really a need for it??

I don't know what anyone else want s me to do. Just sit here and take it? My next negative comment about anyone's country will be my first, and I'll leave it that.

I'm sorry for being defensive, but I get the feeling that what happened last month with me and Ancelotti was in vain.

 

[Slagathor]

This thread convinced me to watch some American Football and guess what, I switched on the box this afternoon for the NFL play-offs. It looked like fun, if only I knew the rules! I'm pretty sure they don't have offsides though