i am not sure if the president is involved it leads to direct violation and some body lower than that post it leads to indirect violation
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Farsopoli(Calciopoli) (21 Viewers)
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I think there is. Genoa were found guilty of match-fixing last year and relegated from A to C1, so apparantly the punishment varies with the severity of the crime.
In Genoa's case it was quite clearly match-fixing as one of the club's representatives was caught with a suitcase full of euros, IIRC, but in Juve's case it seems to be much more indirect, hence the lighter sentence. I remember reading about one of the taped phone calls in which Moggi tells Paolo Dondarini who is about to referee a Juventus-game to “Make sure you see everything - even that which isn’t there.” but that's about the most severe incident I've seen.
There might be more published in the Italian press but unfortunately I don't understand it. Anyway, though I don't have acces to the exact charges or evidence against Juventus, in my mind Juventus were justifiably relegated.
Why Lazio, Fiorentina and especially Milan escaped with such a blatant slap on the wrist is beyond me though.
In Genoa's case it was quite clearly match-fixing as one of the club's representatives was caught with a suitcase full of euros, IIRC, but in Juve's case it seems to be much more indirect, hence the lighter sentence. I remember reading about one of the taped phone calls in which Moggi tells Paolo Dondarini who is about to referee a Juventus-game to “Make sure you see everything - even that which isn’t there.” but that's about the most severe incident I've seen.
There might be more published in the Italian press but unfortunately I don't understand it. Anyway, though I don't have acces to the exact charges or evidence against Juventus, in my mind Juventus were justifiably relegated.
Why Lazio, Fiorentina and especially Milan escaped with such a blatant slap on the wrist is beyond me though.
OP
From sports.it
Juventus:nuovi ricorsi entro sabato
(ANSA) - TORINO, 27 LUG - Entro sabato il legale della Juventus, Cesare Zaccone, ricorrera' alla Camera di Conciliazione del Coni contro la sentenza di 2/o grado. In queste ore l'avvocato sta formalizzando la documentazione. Anche i legali di Antonio Giraudo e Luciano Moggi sono in piena attivita'. I difensori dell'ex ad, Chiappero, Grog e Scoca stanno valutando parallelamente il ricorso alla Camera di Conciliazione e al Tar. Il legale di Moggi, Gianaria, sta invece perfezionando il ricorso al Tar.
Juventus will make their secodn appeal on staurday
Juventus:nuovi ricorsi entro sabato
(ANSA) - TORINO, 27 LUG - Entro sabato il legale della Juventus, Cesare Zaccone, ricorrera' alla Camera di Conciliazione del Coni contro la sentenza di 2/o grado. In queste ore l'avvocato sta formalizzando la documentazione. Anche i legali di Antonio Giraudo e Luciano Moggi sono in piena attivita'. I difensori dell'ex ad, Chiappero, Grog e Scoca stanno valutando parallelamente il ricorso alla Camera di Conciliazione e al Tar. Il legale di Moggi, Gianaria, sta invece perfezionando il ricorso al Tar.
Juventus will make their secodn appeal on staurday
The best thing I think can come outa these appeals is getting into a single figure points deduction.
They've demoted us,they've made us lose world class players, they've made us lose money and they've taken our last 2 scudetti and given the last one to Inter so I can safley tell u guyz that we cant expect much from these proceedings.
It's only too bad for them they cant take away our black and white hearts......not ever
They've demoted us,they've made us lose world class players, they've made us lose money and they've taken our last 2 scudetti and given the last one to Inter so I can safley tell u guyz that we cant expect much from these proceedings.
It's only too bad for them they cant take away our black and white hearts......not ever
Tue F
The critical issue for me is not so much the severity of guilt because it depends essentially on one's stands but rather how these severity of guilt corresponds to the sentence given.
As far as I am concerned, I have not yet been informed on what basis these correspondence were made, which may partly be down to my inability to speak Italian, whic may have limited access to information, but I doubt whether Italians know much more than me.
One should also consider the fact that a lot of information press gets are leaks, which, unless one is an idiot, will know are done some intention to shape up certain public opinions etc.
So to sum up, people have not been informed fully about the process behind the sentences, which has big influence on their welfare.
Regardless of whether the sentence was unjust or not, there was clear lack of transparency in the whole juridical process. Now that is clearly immoral. To argue otherwise, is just purely ignorant.
Secondly, because we do not have not been informed of the basis used by the judiciary to determine sentences, we can only speculate about the severity of guilty and the appropriateness of sentences.
My speculation is that, which I will not mention again as I have mentioned in the past, there was no basis to begin with.
If there was, then my word, I sincerely question the intellectual capacity of one of the highest official in the whole Italia. The inability to distinguish various parties involved in the whole scandal and that the club is just a legal entity, and complete ignorance of the notion of responsibility and capacity - such imbecile should not be a judge regardless of the technical process behind the trial.
Oh yeah, it would take quite an argument to convince me that somehow a 8point penalty in a Juve less championship and participation in CL for Milan constitute as a penalty. What did Milan exactly loose? They normally beat Inter by that margin if not more most of the season. Even if Inter doesnt find way to self-distruct to loose 8 point gap, Milan will surely win a CL place next year taking into consideration that Lazio, Fiorentina will be busy fighting relegation and Juve will be in Serie B.
Forget about us, Fiorentina, & Lazio. Milan has definetely CHEATED. THAT IS A FACT. Now can YOU say that is a penalty? If guilty, team should be penalized.
The critical issue for me is not so much the severity of guilt because it depends essentially on one's stands but rather how these severity of guilt corresponds to the sentence given.
As far as I am concerned, I have not yet been informed on what basis these correspondence were made, which may partly be down to my inability to speak Italian, whic may have limited access to information, but I doubt whether Italians know much more than me.
One should also consider the fact that a lot of information press gets are leaks, which, unless one is an idiot, will know are done some intention to shape up certain public opinions etc.
So to sum up, people have not been informed fully about the process behind the sentences, which has big influence on their welfare.
Regardless of whether the sentence was unjust or not, there was clear lack of transparency in the whole juridical process. Now that is clearly immoral. To argue otherwise, is just purely ignorant.
Secondly, because we do not have not been informed of the basis used by the judiciary to determine sentences, we can only speculate about the severity of guilty and the appropriateness of sentences.
My speculation is that, which I will not mention again as I have mentioned in the past, there was no basis to begin with.
If there was, then my word, I sincerely question the intellectual capacity of one of the highest official in the whole Italia. The inability to distinguish various parties involved in the whole scandal and that the club is just a legal entity, and complete ignorance of the notion of responsibility and capacity - such imbecile should not be a judge regardless of the technical process behind the trial.
Oh yeah, it would take quite an argument to convince me that somehow a 8point penalty in a Juve less championship and participation in CL for Milan constitute as a penalty. What did Milan exactly loose? They normally beat Inter by that margin if not more most of the season. Even if Inter doesnt find way to self-distruct to loose 8 point gap, Milan will surely win a CL place next year taking into consideration that Lazio, Fiorentina will be busy fighting relegation and Juve will be in Serie B.
Forget about us, Fiorentina, & Lazio. Milan has definetely CHEATED. THAT IS A FACT. Now can YOU say that is a penalty? If guilty, team should be penalized.
Disgraced Juventus to lodge appeal with CONI
ROME (AFP) - Juventus, who on Tuesday were stripped of the Serie A titles they won in 2005-06 and in 2004-05 and relegated to the second division with a 17-point penalty for match-fixing, are to lodge a further appeal against their punishment with the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI).
The disgraced Turin club will present their case to CONI, the governing body of Italian sport which oversees the activities of all the various federations, including the FIGC, by Saturday.
Juventus will also appeal to CONI against the sentences handed down to former general manager Luciano Moggi and chief executive Antonio Giraudo, who were both banned from taking up a role in sport for five years.
AFP
ROME (AFP) - Juventus, who on Tuesday were stripped of the Serie A titles they won in 2005-06 and in 2004-05 and relegated to the second division with a 17-point penalty for match-fixing, are to lodge a further appeal against their punishment with the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI).
The disgraced Turin club will present their case to CONI, the governing body of Italian sport which oversees the activities of all the various federations, including the FIGC, by Saturday.
Juventus will also appeal to CONI against the sentences handed down to former general manager Luciano Moggi and chief executive Antonio Giraudo, who were both banned from taking up a role in sport for five years.
AFP
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