vote


  • Total voters
    90
  • Poll closed .

rainhard

Senior Member
May 5, 2004
3,917
If they really have ambition then team like Atalanta who will play in Champions League will be great opportunity for them
For transfer fee and salary, there are so much solution and workaround to it if all the "three parties" agreed that the move will give mutual benefit
 

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JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,293
Why would Can possibly want to play for Brescia? Moreover, how could they afford his salary?

The fact is that we don't play in a league where for simply being promoted you get a stack of money, the smaller teams have tiny budgets. Atalanta last season had a total wage budget not much more than teams who were relegated.

ylZkeKS.jpg
 
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Tak!

Senior Member
Jun 23, 2011
3,704
Putting all plusvalenza jokes aside, it's great that Juventus fans can understand the financial part of the situation and take it into account. Should they though?

Juventus is a football club, and people root for them because of football. Football means winning on the pitch (in a perfect world - winning all possible games and trophies), having great players (in a perfect world - having all the best players), showing great performances (in a perfect world - the football is great both tactically and visually).

Money isn't an equal part in this equation. Yes, it plays its role, but it's only a secondary background and cannot be used as an excuse if the goals mentioned above aren't reached, especially when you declare that you already have a squad that is hard to improve and consider the biggest trophy in the world your real objective.

If you look at the football clubs that are the most successful clubs in terms of international football in Europe, they aren't built the way the Juventus management try to build their own club. Most of them are deeply in debt, loaning money from banks to fund current transfers, signing expensive stars that as a result allow them to sign big contracts with the club's sponsors, etc., which gives them a huge advantage over financially more restricted clubs.

FFP started regulating the market recently, but many big clubs couldn't care less about it - they are even OK with being banned from the transfer market and facing other UEFA sanctions if what they do allows them to be the best in football (or, at least, to seriously try to be the best).

I'm not saying that Juventus has to use the same means those clubs are using to get on top. It's up to the Juventus management to decide, but personally I'm completely against the use of any unfair practices and disapprove of them. What I'm saying is that if what they do is less effective in terms of football, then they cannot use it as an excuse, because football is about football, it's not about money.

If they really want to compete with the biggest guys for the biggest trophies, they must apply the strategy that can allow them to do that. The strategy that requires that you sell half of your squad each summer because of plusvalenza is not one of them, as we've already seen.

Financial health on its own is not a guarantee for success in football. Look at Man Utd. They are one of the most financially powerful clubs in the world, definitely in the TOP 3 and much bigger than Juventus. But in terms of football they are not even in TOP 30. So, what's the point if at the end of the day it's all about football anyway?

Do you think that the current Juventus development strategy where the plusvalenza is a king (a queen?) can lead them to the top of Europe? I'm not talking about some half-accidental success that cannot be reproduced, I'm talking about becoming a real European superpower like Barcelona and Madrid.

I believe, that's what most Juventus fans are expecting at this point as the next destination for this club. And all the frustration is coming from the realization that it's not what's about to happen in the foreseeable future. Some might call such fans "spoiled", but I don't think that it's completely fair, because what else could they want? "Let's stay at this stage for many years"? I don't think so.

The strategy the club has been using allowed them to get to the point they are at now, and that is great, considering where they started. But it's already been several years of stagnation and decline with this strategy, and there's no signs that things will change and these changes will be positive.
http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/juventus-bond-issue-200-million-euros-debt-finance
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0220/1031658-juventus-fc-lists-debt-in-dublin/
https://sports.ndtv.com/football/juventus-debts-almost-double-last-season-1916333
Googled "Juventus debt", those were the first three hits. Plenty of more to go around. Regarding debts we have recently made the same efforts as other clubs. Started around the time when, I think, Marotta and the rest had differences of opinion. I think Marotta is risk aversive and wanted to go along a safer route while Agnelli is a risk-taker and wanted to follow the route of other top teams. I am a risk aversive person and therefore happy to not be bothered with managing our club. I think both roads make very much sense. Marotta's road is safer long-term but Agnelli's more short-term perspective has put us in the global spotlight and consequentially substantially increased our revenues. I only hope our debts don't pile up because they are also restraining us and will cause issues if interest rates goes up and the pile grows larger. Hopefully we can continue to grow, other italian teams improve and put our league on the map again to increase further interest for us. United is obviously riding the EPL wave while we are the only big ship in an ocean with no waves at all. We need a stronger league and Italian teams that challenge in Europe. If that happens, our revenues can grow and I then hope we start to amortise those debts to increase our profits in the future (and lower our risk exposure).

Just to be clear, I am not saying you are wrong, only saying that we already do have substantial debts. Without checking I would guess we are by far in Italy, and somewhat similar to the rest of Europe. But I can be wrong.
 

DS8_Montero

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2018
985
http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/juventus-bond-issue-200-million-euros-debt-finance
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0220/1031658-juventus-fc-lists-debt-in-dublin/
https://sports.ndtv.com/football/juventus-debts-almost-double-last-season-1916333
Googled "Juventus debt", those were the first three hits. Plenty of more to go around. Regarding debts we have recently made the same efforts as other clubs. Started around the time when, I think, Marotta and the rest had differences of opinion. I think Marotta is risk aversive and wanted to go along a safer route while Agnelli is a risk-taker and wanted to follow the route of other top teams. I am a risk aversive person and therefore happy to not be bothered with managing our club. I think both roads make very much sense. Marotta's road is safer long-term but Agnelli's more short-term perspective has put us in the global spotlight and consequentially substantially increased our revenues. I only hope our debts don't pile up because they are also restraining us and will cause issues if interest rates goes up and the pile grows larger. Hopefully we can continue to grow, other italian teams improve and put our league on the map again to increase further interest for us. United is obviously riding the EPL wave while we are the only big ship in an ocean with no waves at all. We need a stronger league and Italian teams that challenge in Europe. If that happens, our revenues can grow and I then hope we start to amortise those debts to increase our profits in the future (and lower our risk exposure).

Just to be clear, I am not saying you are wrong, only saying that we already do have substantial debts. Without checking I would guess we are by far in Italy, and somewhat similar to the rest of Europe. But I can be wrong.
Yes, I remember I read about those bonds on FI when they were issued. But even then they looked like a very cautious and conservative move compared to what other big clubs do.

Here's an interesting article about Madrid's financial situation: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ess-papered-spiralling-costs-now-party-clear/

At first glance, it looks like a complete mess. But they won 4 Champions Leagues in 5 years. It's twice as many as Juventus won in their entire history. So, what Perez did from the football perspective is worth more than all the efforts the Juventus management made in the last 20 years.

The Spanish football is also far from being financially remarkably successful (in 17-18 they earned $3b compared to Serie A's $2.2b and EPL's $5.4b), so Perez didn't wait until the gap between them and EPL sides will be closed - he acted in circumstances he had.

Here's an interesting excerpt from that article I mentioned above: "... the club sold Cristiano Ronaldo to Juventus, with an up-front payment of €50 million that meant for this year they may not have been obliged to borrow to cover their existing wage bill. "

And another one: "At the club’s previous assembly in July, Perez was given the mandate to borrow €575 million to redevelop the Bernabeu, a project that will add a shopping centre but not a single extra standard seat."

Also, however messy their financial state is, they nonetheless bought Hazard and are even reportedly working on buying Neymar (which I don't consider plausible but won't be surprised if it happens), which would also mean another huge bank loan.

That's a pretty standard way of balancing on the brink of risking company's solvency when the company wants to intensify significantly its growth. If you have such competitors, it's almost impossible to compete with them if you want to fund your business mostly out of your own pocket, like the Juventus management do. It's more financially healthy, no discussion about that, but it doesn't work from all other perspectives which are defined by the market (or, in this case, by the competitors' strategies).

That's why I think that focusing on the club's inner financial situation in terms of plusvalenza, etc., is not the best perspective to look at the picture in general. Because in this case it's more about tactical wins (or, at least, comfort), but at the expense of the strategic loss.
 

X Æ A-12

Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
86,625
I think we can expect a lot of loan deals in the final days.
would be my guess. Other clubs, potential buyers, will know our situation and will be watching, waiting.

If the final days come around and we still have 4, 5 or 6 players we can't register? i doubt we are going to see much in transfer fees.
 

Knowah

Pool's Closed Due to Aids
Jan 28, 2013
5,829
Why would Can possibly want to play for Brescia? Moreover, how could they afford his salary?

The fact is that we don't play in a league where for simply being promoted you get a stack of money, the smaller teams have tiny budgets. Atalanta last season had a total wage budget not much more than teams who were relegated.

ylZkeKS.jpg
Sassuolo continue to impress me. Their strict wage structure and their ability to move talent for a healthy profit is the right way to grow. I don't know if they're growing as fast as they had hoped by I think if they can continue to keep wages under control and be a mid-table club, they could really see their revenues grow and be able to support stronger purchases. Berardi (my love) not developing into a worldclass player definitely hurt them financially though. I'm sure they saw profit in their future on him when he was hyped (I was guilty of this too) and now he's barely a midtable level player. Sad for them.
 

Espectro

The Grimreaper
Jul 12, 2002
13,776
So... this guy can’t sell for $hit and I see some of you saying “ooooh just leave him alone Its haaaaaard to sell buu buuu buuuu”

Jesus Freakin Christ...
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,352
In Barcelona, meeting between Paratici and the Catalans, who put the Uruguayan on the table and propose a Rakitic-Emre Can exchange [TS]
 

Juventinoo

Ertuğrul Oğlu Osman
Oct 20, 2004
3,647
So the mighty Marotta pulled Lukaku and Alexis , MU waste ... paying 100m and high salaries ...

:lion:

Thank God he left ... hope Fabio clean his mess

- - - Updated - - -

So... this guy can’t sell for $hit and I see some of you saying “ooooh just leave him alone Its haaaaaard to sell buu buuu buuuu”

Jesus Freakin Christ...
Guys once the market is shut , you can whine as much as you want , still we have time to pitch on that
 

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