Fabio Capello (8 Viewers)

[Alen]

Alen, you are comparing players the way YOU want them to be compared.

How was the Stam-Nesta partnership better than Cannavaro-Thuram?
How was Sheva-Inzaghi better than Zlatan/Trezeguet/Del Piero upfront?
How was their midfield better than ours?

We were more complete, most of our players were on their peak unlike Milan players.

Most of our players were on a downfall, not their peak.
You could have seen that by looking at what happened to Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Thuram, Emerson and Vieira the year after they left Juve.

Age has a lot to do with how you play over the course of the season. In a short competition you won't feel it, but when all your midfielders are 30 or older, they will slow down as the season goes on. And if your midfield slows down, then your entire team slows down.
It's impossible to prove, but I'm 100% sure that the young Arsenal squad wouldn't have ran over us if the match was played in September.

 

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[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Alen, you are comparing players the way YOU want them to be compared.

How was the Stam-Nesta partnership better than Cannavaro-Thuram?
How was Sheva-Inzaghi better than Zlatan/Trezeguet/Del Piero upfront?
How was their midfield better than ours?

We were more complete, most of our players were on their peak unlike Milan players.

Their midfield was better.

GattusosoladeRINO was the best defensive midfielder in the world, the best overall tackler and he covered every piece of grass, and Pirlo was the best deep-lying playmaker and the best pure passer in the world.

Also, Kaka might have been the best player in the world, if not, he was second behind Ronaldinho.

Also, in defence I think they equal out because Nesta, I THINK, was better than Canna but Thuram was better than big bad Japper.

 

[king Ale]

That's not necessarily my personal opinion. That's just a logical conclusion after reading what she said.

It is anything but logical. An old player can adapt himself with new tactics. Playing modern football has nothing to do with age. But you can't expect a 65 yo coach to drastically make a big change in his tactics. You can't expect that of Lippi or Capello.

Capello's squad was one of the best in Europe when he was with us. We weren't superior to Milan, that's right, but we still were strong enough not to be kicked out of the CL twice in a row like that.

 

[Bjerknes]

Ok, tell me how was it better than Milan's?

Better defensively. Far better defensively. It's not even close.

 

[Bjerknes]

Their midfield was better.

GattusosoladeRINO was the best defensive midfielder in the world, the best overall tackler and he covered every piece of grass, and Pirlo was the best deep-lying playmaker and the best pure passer in the world.

Also, Kaka might have been the best player in the world, if not, he was second behind Ronaldinho.

Also, in defence I think they equal out because Nesta, I THINK, was better than Canna but Thuram was better than big bad Japper.

Gattuso was the best destroyer in the world, not the best DM. He can't pass the ball worth a crap and do anything besides run like a headless chicken. Vieira and Emerson were both better players.

And in those seasons under Capello, Canna was better than Nesta without a doubt.

 

[Azzurri7]

Most of our players were on a downfall, not their peak.
You could have seen that by looking at what happened to Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Thuram, Emerson and Vieira the year after they left Juve.

They can be at their peak and months later not anymore. Depends what team they're playing for and depends on too many other things.

We had the best defense and Cannavaro-Thuram partnership was the most solid partnership in Europe. I don't know why you're denying this. Zambrotta was the best LB in the world and I really don't care what happened later, but AT JUVENTUS he was the best.

Age has a lot to do with how you play over the course of the season. In a short competition you won't feel it, but when all your midfielders are 30 or older, they will slow down as the season goes on. And if your midfield slows down, then your entire team slows down.
It's impossible to prove, but I'm 100% sure that the young Arsenal squad wouldn't have ran over us if the match was played in September.

Is this why the aged Milan players won the CL and reached the finals couple of times?

Is that why the younger Manchester United squad ran over Milan in CL? Not to mention Liverpool at the finals were having much younger players than Milan.

Sorry Alen, but I think you're being too stubborn here trying to prove something that just wasn't.

 

[Alen]

Better defensively. Far better defensively. It's not even close.

So if I tell you that in 2004/05 we conceded 27 goals while Milan conceded 28 and in 2005/06 we conceded 31 goal while Milan conceded 32 (which means that we conceded almost the same number of goals) it will mean that it's Capello's fault that the far better defense didn't do better than Milan's defense?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

That's what I meant with Gabubblo, and was that before or after Nestajuice busted his knee?

 

[Hust]

It is anything but logical. An old player can adapt himself with new tactics. Playing modern football has nothing to do with age. But you can't expect a 65 yo coach to drastically make a big change in his tactics. You can't expect that of Lippi or Capello.

Capello's squad was one of the best in Europe when he was with us. We weren't superior to Milan, that's right, but we still were strong enough not to be kicked out of the CL twice in a row like that.

Tell that to Porto who didn't have one of the strongest teams in Europe.

 

[Alen]

Is this why the aged Milan players won the CL and reached the finals couple of times?

Is that why the younger Manchester United squad ran over Milan in CL? Not to mention Liverpool at the finals were having much younger players than Milan.

Sorry Alen, but I think you're being too stubborn here trying to prove something that just wasn't.

No, as I said, in a short competition, and if you're concentrated on it, you can do it.
When the old Milan won the CL they hardly even played in Italy. Before every match Ancelotti was resting the main players and they finished 30 pts behind Inter.
In 2003 and 2005 their midfield wasn't old. It was in its right age.

But if you play to win both in your domestic league and CL, as Juve did, and if you have an old squad with such a thin bench, then sooner or later you will fail.

 

[Azzurri7]

Their midfield was better.

GattusosoladeRINO was the best defensive midfielder in the world, the best overall tackler and he covered every piece of grass, and Pirlo was the best deep-lying playmaker and the best pure passer in the world.

Also, Kaka might have been the best player in the world, if not, he was second behind Ronaldinho.

Also, in defence I think they equal out because Nesta, I THINK, was better than Canna but Thuram was better than big bad Japper.

Alright, I'll buy that. Lets say they were better than us in the middle. Defensively and offensively they were by miles behind us. Miles. Which makes us a better team than Milan.


There's no way Nesta was better than Cannavaro 04-05-06. No way my man.

 

[Alen]

Alright, I'll buy that. Lets say they were better than us in the middle. Defensively and offensively they were by miles behind us. Miles.

Even if I accept that they were worse in defense, the numbers prove that they were still great in defense and they conceded just as much as we did.
So if our great defense (and it sure was a great defense) didn't concede much less than Milan, then I guess it's super defensive Capello who should be blamed?

As for the attack, those guys still scored like mad. So if their midfield was better, maybe that's the reason why their attack was scoring so much.

 

[swag]

Juve didn't suck. We were spoiled babies who weren't satisfied with 2 scudetti in a row and we wanted to play some Barca-style football, beat everyone 10:0 and win the CL every single year.

How on earth can you say that we sucked when we won 2 years in a row?

Capello rocked the house in Serie A. After all, the team never sat below first place in his entire two-year tenure with the club. You cannot bluff that one.

But his CL record was pretty disastrous. If it were only about winning Serie A, but this was a club built with international aspirations in mind. When we needed joke goals by Emerson to bail us out against Werder Bremen, that was more than just horribly disappointing -- it was money ill-spent.

Inter keeps racking up the scudetti, but they sent Mancini packing for European glory. We once were in the same boat.

 

[king Ale]

What are you going to achieve by proving that we were not superior to Milan? Capello's Real was by far inferior to Barca but they won the league. Capello is a master at that.

But the way he got owned in the CL with that strong team we had is just unjustifiable. We were simply incapable of creating goal opportunities against the other European teams in CL.

 

[Azzurri7]

Even if I accept that they were worse in defense, the numbers prove that they were still great in defense and they conceded just as much as we did.
So if our great defense (and it sure was a great defense) didn't concede much less than Milan, then I guess it's super defensive Capello who should be blamed?

Let me put it this way...This season seems like we will concede more than the likes of Palermo, Roma and Napoli. They have concede less than us so far, does that mean they have better defenders than us? No.

That's my point, as players, as team, we were better and ahead of Milan at that time. What happens later with statistics can be part of coach's formation, tactics etc..

 

[Azzurri7]

Inter keeps racking up the scudetti, but they sent Mancini packing for European glory. We once were in the same boat.

This says it all. 100%.

 

[Alen]

But his CL record was pretty disastrous. If it were only about winning Serie A, but this was a club built with international aspirations in mind. When we needed joke goals by Emerson to bail us out against Werder Bremen, that was more than just horribly disappointing -- it was money ill-spent.

Ok, I accept that.

But it was back in 2005 and 2006.
Lets talk about reality, the present, and lets hear the reasons why wouldn't You guys accept Capello now?
Because he won't win us the CL? With the team we have, can you even think about winning the CL, with any coach, even with a trio of the world's best coaches?

 

[Bjerknes]

So if I tell you that in 2004/05 we conceded 27 goals while Milan conceded 28 and in 2005/06 we conceded 31 goal while Milan conceded 32 (which means that we conceded almost the same number of goals) it will mean that it's Capello's fault that the far better defense didn't do better than Milan's defense?

Capello did a great job defensively with the team. That's not my qualm with him. The other areas of the game, and the lack of inspiration for big matches in Europe, is why I dislike him. He failed with us.

 

[Alen]

What are you going to achieve by proving that we were not superior to Milan? Capello's Real was by far inferior to Barca but they won the league. Capello is a master at that.

But the way he got owned in the CL with that strong team we had is just unjustifiable. We were simply incapable of creating goal opportunities against the other European teams in CL.

In 2004/05 we did great in the group stages and then we eliminated Real Madrid.
We were eliminated by the future CL champs.

In 2005/06 yes, we did bad in that competition.

What I'm trying to prove is that Capello is a master of winning the league even with teams that aren't clearly superior to the rest.
In CL he might have been doing bad, but winning the CL is the last thing on my mind now. I want a coach who can bring back the winning spirit, discipline, great fitness, moral, motivation to the team. Probably he won't win serie A in his first season, but in his second, I won't be surprised if he does it, even with a team inferior to Inter and Milan.
Then after 2-3 seasons we can think about winning the CL and we can get the right coach for that.

But now, in 2010, right now, we desperately need a coach like Capello.

 

[Azzurri7]

With the way he plays, with his tactics and system, the 4-4-2 old fashion long balls wont help us. Not with this solid Inter. We will surely fight for another CL place.

Inter have become what we were sadly, so just imagine Capello in 05-06 was coaching Inter instead of Juventus, was he going to win the title with his mentality and the way he plays looking at Inter squad back then? I doubt that very much.

Prandelli for me over Capello anytime. Gasperini over Capello anyday.