European annals (1 Viewer)


Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
In light of the much disputed issues of which league is the best, has Serie A lost it grip and all that, I decided to examine the issue a little more closely. Now what frame of reference can you make use of if not the ultimate prize, the European Cup (CL)? If anything, that is a competition that should bring out the best of the best. Let's have a look at the past 10 years (since pre-CL days did not have a semi final, I will instead use the clubs which finished 2nd in each group).

Now if you want to actually win the competition, at least make the semi final. You cannot claim to have been able to win if you don't make it that far, all semi finalists are remembered. It's like the World Cup, everyone a little older than me remembers the great Poland of the 70's and 80's. They never won and even with a bit of luck probably wouldn't have. But they made the semi finals twice and that's something. Thus I will give each team 3 points for a win, 2 for being finalists and 1 for going to the semis.

Let's begin... It is indeed a fact that the fans of the EPL have started to claim their league is better than the Serie A. But what have their teams achieved at the highest stage? Man U won it in 1999. Full stop. That's one win in 10 years and need I remind you under which circumstances that took place? Being the clearly inferior team in 3 matches in a row and miraculously winning cannot be described by anything else than luck. And to support that claim, they haven't won before that or since, never reached the final. Not too majestic for the best team of the glorified EPL.

The ranking by club (all clubs with 2 points or more included)...

01. Real Madrid - 10pts
02. Juventus - 8 :star::star::star:
03. AC Milan - 7
--. Barcelona - 7
--. Bayern Munich - 7
06. Ajax Amsterdam - 6
07. Manchester United - 5
08. Borussia Dortmund - 4
--. Valencia - 4
10. Olympique de Marseille - 3
11. Monaco - 2 :cool::cool::cool:
--. Sampdoria - 2
--. Bayer Leverkusen 2

So what does it tell us? That the EPL only has one team in the top13 of the past years, comparable only to the Dutch league. The French Championnat has 2 teams, the German Bundesliga 3, the Spanish Primera 3 and finally the Serie A 3 teams. (The table also neatly shows Real's supremacy over Barcelona but that's another story :D.)

On a sidenote, it also tells us we are the best Italian club in this period and that we have some scores to settle with Real Madrid. :fero: :D

Now if we look at the results by league (all leagues with at least 2 points are included)...

01. Spain - 21pts (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia)
02. Italy - 17 (Juventus, Milan, Sampdoria)
03. Germany - 11 (Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen)
04. France - 6 (Marseille, Monaco, PSG)
--. Holland - 6 (Ajax)
--. England - 6 (Man U, Leeds)

Sadly we've been surpassed by the Spanish clubs, but we still hold a respectable 17 points, a good margin down to the rest. The EPL on the other hand... are tied with the French and the Dutch.

So far so good, the Serie A has a rather firm grip on Europe, surpassed only by the Spanish. But what if we employ the same system for the past 5 years instead of 10? Let's have a look at the clubs...

01. Real Madrid - 10pts
02. Bayern Munich - 6
03. Valencia - 4
--. Manchester United - 4
05. Juventus - 3 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
06. Barcelona - 2
--. Bayer Leverkusen - 2

Indeed there have been some changes! We have fallen to a 5th place with only 3 points and let Man U slip ahead. No, it doesn't look good! Real Madrid not surprisingly hold the fort as they have gained all their points in this period (and hardly existed in Europe those 5 years before these ;)). Now we clearly see that the Spanish Liga is ahead with 3 clubs, the Germans have 2, neither the English nor us have more than 1. :(

League by league...

01. Spain - 16pts (Real Madrid, Valencia, Barcelona)
02. Germany - 9 (Bayern Munich, Leverkusen, Dortmund)
03. England - 5 (Manchester United, Leeds)
04. Italy - 3 (Juventus) :down::down::down:

At a first glance one would notice the French have completely fallen out of the table. But a cruel fate has fallen upon us also, we are now last in the table, a whopping 13 points behind the Spaniards!! The English are indeed not much better but they have an edge and are represented by at least two clubs.

Well it is clear that things are not what they used to be, we have fallen from grace.

Buy on


Prediction Game Champ 2003 & 2005
Jan 12, 2002
Interesting article.

I really can't explain the Italian teams' downfall in Europe.

About the epl scoring low points, I think it has to do with the 5 year ban imposed on them after the Heysel stadium disaster.

Hope this year smiles at the Italian clubs though ... :star:

and the French :)
Jul 12, 2002
++ [ originally posted by Alex ] ++
Second only to Juve I can naturally assume? ;)

But based on what? :p
Yes, second to Juve, but based upon public opinion. Might I suggest a poll?

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