[EU] Champions League 2008/2009 (9 Viewers)

[Fred]

But Benitez did want to sell him. With Gerrard, Mascherano and then Barry (who was obviously rated higher by Benitez than Alonso) Liverpool had the center area covered pretty well with class. In that case no wonder Benitez wanted to get rid of him.

We have no-one if we sell Sissoko.

Your missing the point here, i never said Rafa didnt want to sell him. I said that he turned out to be wrong when he wanted to sell him, especially that Liverpools worst period and the period where they handed over the top spot to Man Utd was largely due to Alonso's absence. Gareth Barry is a rather good player, but he wouldnt have covered the void Alonso would've left.

 

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[Enron]

I thought Benitez wanted Barry considering he could also provide cover for the left spot in midfield?

That's true too. Barry's versatility had a lot to do with Rafa wanting him. But he wanted to get 20 mil from Alonso's sale to cover the 20 mil he'd spend on Barry. Which at the time was greedy.

 

[Bjerknes]

Seruously Andy, stop finding excuses. Tiago was, is and will add nothing else but uselessness to Juve and until we fix our defense every CM that doesn't defend at all, will mean more chances for us to concede goals.
We need the defense sorted first and only then we can think about a player like Xabi or Pirlo.
Look at Milan, look at Pirlo when the defense was great, look at Pirlo now when their defense sucks. Player like Pirlo is now hurting Milan more than he's helping the team.

I'm not finding excuses, just finding it strange how one can say that a Xabi-Sissoko midfield would be horrible when we have achieved good results when Tiago has played.

Xabi's defensive capabilities are sound and he's obviously far better than Tiago in all areas the game.

So honestly, I don't really understand what's going on here.

 

[Cronios]

The only good reason i see for not acquiring Alonso, is that he would have doomed Marchisio's and Tiago's chances!

Buying Poulsen was a stupid mistake, no matter how can anyone see it.
Sissoko's sub was already there (Zanetti) and if CR wanted better coverage for our defense, he should have bought a better/reliable/starter defender with the money we gave on Poulsen.

 

[Enron]

Alen wants Lampard. I can't blame him.

 

[Fred]

He said he wants a Lampard type player, not Lampard himself. Read between the lines, thats another way of saying he wants Hamsik

 

[Bjerknes]

Lampard is sound defensively? :confused2

 

[Bjerknes]

Buying Poulsen was a stupid mistake, no matter how can anyone see it.
Sissoko's sub was already there (Zanetti) and if CR wanted better coverage for our defense, he should have bought a better/reliable/starter defender with the money we gave on Poulsen.

BS transfers, wearing us thin.

 

[Cronios]

...and wasting our very limited resources...

 

[Alen]

Buying Poulsen was a stupid mistake, no matter how can anyone see it.
Sissoko's sub was already there (Zanetti) and if CR wanted better coverage for our defense, he should have bought a better/reliable/starter defender with the money we gave on Poulsen.

I said the same thing.
Buying Poulsen was going to be a good deal only if we had a great partner for Sissoko and a top class defense.

 

[Sadomin]

I don't even think you can say that. How many times have we scored away from home in the latter stages of the Champions League during the past five years? Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea - away from home we scored only one goal in all losing efforts. The way Barca holds the ball and how they can defend counterattacks tells me we probably wouldn't do much better than Bayern. It's not like the latter is impotent going forward with Ribery and the others.

I'll ignore your Pool and Arsenal examples since they were done under a different era. This season we did score 2 away against Real Madrid, so that's not a very good argument. Barcelona's defence relies on their team being able to keep possession. Make them struggle to keep the ball and their defence is very average. Had Bayern been more effective in their counter attacks they could very well have scored. Didn't look impossible at all.

And yes, only Ribery is superior to what we already have in midfield and attack. Toni, Van Bommel, Altintop? No thank you. I rate Ze Roberto but it was obvious this wasn't the game for him.

Uhh... we didn't play too poorly against Chelsea. It's not like they took the game to us 24/7. They didn't impress me much.

No, we didn't play poorly against Chelsea, but look at how our goals were scored. A counter attack and a penalty. Later in the game we sacrificed defence for attack, something which resulted in some smooth creative play but at the expense of our defence (though with a man less, of course).

If our defense would have played even higher then Bayern we would have gotten owned even more. Remember, Barca's strengths come from skill and pace from the wings. Grygera and Molinaro would always have to back track and get skinned, allowing more space behind.

Bayern were pretty much sitting in their own penalty box every time Barcelona scored a goal. Messi, Eto'o and Henry are not quite as dangerous 30 metres from goal as they are from 10, don't you think? Even if they get through on the flanks from such distance, there's a higher chance you'll have someone being able to intervene than them taking a first time shot in goal like they did tonight.

The Barca attack also received the ball way too easily and in too dangerous positions. Bayern's atrocious defending flattered the Spaniards.

I just don't really like how some people here try to give us stupid pity points while we're out of the fucking tournament. Yeah, so we might have done a little better than Bayern. Who gives a toss? We're not in it. And even if we were, Barca would be too much of a test for our current team.

It's frankly annoying what you're doing. It takes away from the problems we have and doesn't really add any insight, especially when everybody can see Barca is no match for this team.

That's all. This has been a major waste of my time.

Funny thing is, you began debating this non-issue in first place. Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Alen]

Lampard is sound defensively? :confused2

What we needed THE MOST last year was to take care of the defense.
Since we didn't, a box to box scoring midfielder was going to be a much better option than someone like Xabi.

We like different styles of play. I prefer a team like Chelsea, like pre-Calciopoli Juve, while you like players who would never fit in such teams. Players like Tiago and Xabi. That's why the misunderstandings between us.
I don't like CMs who don't score and who don't defend at all. If he doesn't defend then he better score 10-15 goals per season.

 

[Esteban]

It's interesting how people act like they just discovered the wheel after each "big" game in the CL. What happens in this particular game is definite and decides what poster was right all along.

 

[Bjerknes]

What we needed THE MOST last year was to take care of the defense.
Since we didn't, a box to box scoring midfielder was going to be a much better option than someone like Xabi.

We like different styles of play. I prefer a team like Chelsea, like pre-Calciopoli Juve, while you like players who would never fit in such teams. Players like Tiago and Xabi. That's why the misunderstandings between us.
I don't like CMs who don't score and who don't defend at all. If he doesn't defend then he better score 10-15 goals per season.

As if Xabi can't defend.

But I guess I'm wrong here and you're right. Keeping possession is not important in football. We surely didn't need any passers or creative players in the team when Capello was manager, as proven by our experiences in the Champions League.

 

[swag]

As if Xabi can't defend.

But I guess I'm wrong here and you're right. Keeping possession is not important in football. We surely didn't need any passers or creative players in the team when Capello was manager, as proven by our experiences in the Champions League.

You don't need it as much when you are level or defending a lead. But if you're behind, you're f*ed.

And therein lies the fatal flaw in any Juventus CL campaign of the past several years: Ranieri and Capello. We are/were too one-dimensional to adjust and compensate for game conditions that could change against the favor of our line-up.

Elimination tournaments are all about adjusting to freak happenings. They even out in a long campionato campaign. But you don't have several matches to polish it over in an elimination tournament.

 

[Fred]

It's interesting how people act like they just discovered the wheel after each "big" game in the CL. What happens in this particular game is definite and decides what poster was right all along.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

What we needed THE MOST last year was to take care of the defense.
Since we didn't, a box to box scoring midfielder was going to be a much better option than someone like Xabi.

We like different styles of play. I prefer a team like Chelsea, like pre-Calciopoli Juve, while you like players who would never fit in such teams. Players like Tiago and Xabi. That's why the misunderstandings between us.
I don't like CMs who don't score and who don't defend at all. If he doesn't defend then he better score 10-15 goals per season.

That is actually the real issue, it is also why you and Andy will never agree on matters like Tiago and what kind of players Juve want, its all about preferences in the end. I for one am leaning more toward Andy's view of what a team should look like.

 

[Bjerknes]

The whole concept of football is to score goals. If you have the ball in possession, the other team won't be able to score. Sure, sometimes luring the opposition in deep for a counterattack works when you have 35% or so of possession, but you can't rely on the tactic all the time as you're playing with fire. A team needs more balance and the ability to adapt, as Greg said. A player such as Xabi is able to adapt to situations and do what needs to be done at a given time, something that players such as Poulsen and Sissoko are not as capable of. That's why we need a more balanced midfield instead of two destroyers in there.

 

[Bjerknes]

You don't need it as much when you are level or defending a lead. But if you're behind, you're f*ed.

And therein lies the fatal flaw in any Juventus CL campaign of the past several years: Ranieri and Capello. We are/were too one-dimensional to adjust and compensate for game conditions that could change against the favor of our line-up.

Elimination tournaments are all about adjusting to freak happenings. They even out in a long campionato campaign. But you don't have several matches to polish it over in an elimination tournament.

Indeed. That's always the problem with our team - and regular system - it's too one dimensional.

 

[Alen]

The whole concept of football is to score goals. If you have the ball in possession, the other team won't be able to score. Sure, sometimes luring the opposition in deep for a counterattack works when you have 35% or so of possession, but you can't rely on the tactic all the time as you're playing with fire. A team needs more balance and the ability to adapt, as Greg said. A player such as Xabi is able to adapt to situations and do what needs to be done at a given time, something that players such as Poulsen and Sissoko are not as capable of. That's why we need a more balanced midfield instead of two destroyers in there.

You can have two destroyers and still have possession, create a lot and score a lot.
Milan did have Gattuso and Ambrosini in midfield the last time they won the CL.

 

[Fred]

You can have two destroyers and still have possession, create a lot and score a lot.
Milan did have Gattuso and Ambrosini in midfield the last time they won the CL.

Ya but Milan had Seedorf, Kaka and Pirlo as well.