EPL Bullshit (14 Viewers)

[Nicole]

OMG! I'd of though the idiocy of the 'EPL being overrated' was absent from here, but still there are idiots around who think it is, remind how many english teams there are in the next round of the Champions League? And if you look at 'head-to-head' results between the top teams of each league in recent years English teams far much better.

Juve-Man Utd: Last time I remember Juve playing and English team, if I remember correct we beat you 4-0...hmm doesnt that sound familar...

Lazio-Chelsea, 4-0. And even more embarrasingly, Middlesbrough completely tore Lazio to pieces in the UEFA Cup.

Inter-Arsenal, 5-1. For once Arsenal played well against a big team. Inter were murdered.

Real-Man Utd, 4-3. Although we lost on aggregate the last game we played Madrid we beat them, and only because of the brilliant hat-trick by (IMO) the best player in the world (perhaps) ever, Ronaldo, we'd of beat them on aggregate.

Barcelona-Newcastle, cant remember the score but Newcastle won I remember, I also seem to remember Newcastle beating Juve 1-0.

So, after that...how is the EPL weaker?

 

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[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++
OMG! I'd of though the idiocy of the 'EPL being overrated' was absent from here, but still there are idiots around who think it is, remind how many english teams there are in the next round of the Champions League? And if you look at 'head-to-head' results between the top teams of each league in recent years English teams far much better.

Juve-Man Utd: Last time I remember Juve playing and English team, if I remember correct we beat you 4-0...hmm doesnt that sound familar...

Lazio-Chelsea, 4-0. And even more embarrasingly, Middlesbrough completely tore Lazio to pieces in the UEFA Cup.

Inter-Arsenal, 5-1. For once Arsenal played well against a big team. Inter were murdered.

Real-Man Utd, 4-3. Although we lost on aggregate the last game we played Madrid we beat them, and only because of the brilliant hat-trick by (IMO) the best player in the world (perhaps) ever, Ronaldo, we'd of beat them on aggregate.

Barcelona-Newcastle, cant remember the score but Newcastle won I remember, I also seem to remember Newcastle beating Juve 1-0.

So, after that...how is the EPL weaker?

Isolated cases of small islands in a European sea!

 

[Nicole]

'Isolated cases', that sounds like an excuse to me. It also sounds like the desperation of someone who so desperately wants to believe what he/she is saying even if it is complete rubbish...secondly, you know the overrated English, remind me who went further in Euro2004? England, Italy or Spain?

In fact this whole EPL is rubbish thing, is such crap it is unbelieveable, with England constantly going further then Italy and Spain, and with English teams always doing well (although there should of been more final appearances) for example, Man Utd have reached the CL quaterfinals stage (bar last year) for the last 9 season straight, and only by the luck of the draw that both Arsenal and Chelsea werent in the Semi-Final of the CL last year. It amazes me where this drivel comes from, basically it is desperation from a bunch of fools.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++

In fact this whole EPL is rubbish thing, is such crap it is unbelieveable, with England constantly going further then Italy and Spain, and with English teams always doing well (although there should of been more final appearances) for example, Man Utd have reached the CL quaterfinals stage (bar last year) for the last 9 season straight, and only by the luck of the draw that both Arsenal and Chelsea werent in the Semi-Final of the CL last year. It amazes me where this drivel comes from, basically it is desperation from a bunch of fools.

You lack basic knowledge of football history Nicole. First of all Arsenal have never reached the Semi-final of the Champions League, something EPL fans seem to not understand. You call it the luck of the draw that English sides were not in the Semi-final??? Go find more excuses because that is complete nonsense. The best sides win and progress in this competition.

And let me remind you that Italian clubs have won five and played in 10 of the last 15 Champions Cup Finals. Spanish clubs have won four and played in six. However in the past 15 years only one English side has played in the Final, your beloved Man United who I might add were on the brink of losing that too. So that is 10 appearances for Italy to England's miserable one. Don't lecture us on that "unlucky draw" or reaching the Quarterfinal BS, sell that to some fan who does not know anything about football. The facts speak louder than hype, something English fans cannot handle.

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

Agreeing almost totally with the post of Jun and Des, will be also fair to see what is behind of all this situation.
First of all, britain football aficionados traditionally liked a fast, first intention, lots-of goals way of play soccer. They dont enjoy much strong tactical games, nor defensive formations. It was until the apparition of foreign coaches ( Wengert, Vialli, etc.) that some new styles were introduced in british soccer.

I dont found neither Manure or Arsenal lacking football quality. The problems they have to succeed in Europe, as i see it, is due to the incapacity to adapt tactically to the requeriments of CL. (Arsenal is the perfect example). Chelsea,with Mourinho in front, as been until now showing the opposite. Lets see what a strong tactician coaching can do for a EPL team.(obviously Roman money added).

Respecting Liverpool, they have the same curse Inter have...

 

[Seven]

++ [ originally posted by Desmond ] ++


Every little issue in the EPL is blown way out of proportion and things like Rooney getting a three match ban gets on the headlines of every sporting newspaper at the neighbourhood newsstand.

You haven't been in Italy for a long time, now have you?

 

[Jun-hide]

Nicole,

I am pretty sure nobody here is calling EPL rubbish here. The fact is most of us here agree that EPL is very good league that is on par with Serie A and La Liga IMO.. Personally, at this moment of time I think there are more competitive teams in England than Italia or Spain, which I believe is pretty good indication of how good the league "really" is. While Serie A teams didnt win CL everyway in the 90s (Though they made it to the final most of times), the league achieved its fame because of there were many competitive teams that did well in UEFA Cup (When UEFA Cup was actually worth playing for). Napoli, Fiorentina, Torino, Parma and Sampdoria at the time would have no doubt finished top 3 in all other league bar Serie A.
England is starting to gain some depth in the league a la Serie A in its heyday but the matter of fact is that it isnt dominant nor is it clear that EPL really is the best league. And yet, the amount of coverage it gets is quite amazing. Before claiming themselves to be the best, EPL must win some tournaments, and I do believe it could happen this year..

 

[Nicole]

Jun-hide, that was the best reply here.

Firstly England has a very big disadvantage, you see whilst we are a European Country, it is kind of 'disconnected' from continental Europe. For example, in Continental European Leagues the tempo of games is far less, and it is more of 'possetional'(sp?) football. So it is harder to adapt to Champions League football when you play the Premiership so much.

I ask you, do you believe that if an Italian team could adapt to the Premiership? Did anyone here watch the Lecce Vs Lazio game a couple of weeks ago? That was the most high-tempo'ed Italian game I had ever seen.

Andy, I know all about Arsenal's run in the CL, but I hate Arsenal so I dont care, I think they are a 1-dimentional overrated team. I believe they are overrated because they only play in 1 way, which is why in Europe teams when they figure out how to play against arsenal they murder them, example Inter at Highbury last year, 3-0 but it should of been more.

And like Eaglesnake_1 said, it was only until people like Vialli and Wenger became coaches that these idiots have come here. Then there is also the fact that British teams werent allowed in European Competitions after Heysel (I think that was the reason) until was it 1991 or 1989? I dont remember exactly.

 

[Bjerknes]

If I remember correctly the Heysel ban lasted until 1989. And the fact that England is disconnected from the main body of Europe is not an excuse for their club's dismal performances in Europe. They have to adapt like any other clubs in any other country.

 

[Nicole]

Your wrong Andy, Its because the Premiership is so different to the rest of the leagues in Europe. When other European Teams, play a similar style to there normal leagues that they dont have to try to adapt.

You also didnt answer my question, do you think an Italian team could adapt and be successful in England?

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++
Your wrong Andy, Its because the Premiership is so different to the rest of the leagues in Europe. When other European Teams, play a similar style to there normal leagues that they dont have to try to adapt.

So what if it's different? If their clubs want to do anything in Europe, they have to adapt. The whole reason why English sides cannot do well in the CL is because their tactics and style of play are rubbish, that is not in question. But that is not an excuse, they must adapt.

You also didnt answer my question, do you think an Italian team could adapt and be successful in England?

Ahhh yeah. Mourinho plays a possession catenaccio with Chelsea, something reminiscient of Ancelotti's Milan. I am rather certain the top three Italian sides would be successful in England.

 

[Nicole]

Yes, and English teams DO adapt, that is why there is ALWAYS like at least 2 English teams in the QuaterFinals, you CANT say that English teams are useless. Andy, you are too biased to give a sensible answer, that 'their tactics and style of play is rubbish' that is a genius deduction, and how did you come up with that is it, Juve excellent record against English teams, like the 4-0 against United, or the 1-0 lose you suffered to NEWCASTLE! I cant wait until we get Juve after we beat Milan, then when we beat you then, then you can also say about our 'rubbish tactics and style of play'.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++
Yes, and English teams DO adapt, that is why there is ALWAYS like at least 2 English teams in the QuaterFinals, you CANT say that English teams are useless. Andy, you are too biased to give a sensible answer, that 'their tactics and style of play is rubbish' that is a genius deduction, and how did you come up with that is it, Juve excellent record against English teams, like the 4-0 against United, or the 1-0 lose you suffered to NEWCASTLE! I cant wait until we get Juve after we beat Milan, then when we beat you then, then you can also say about our 'rubbish tactics and style of play'.

I am too biased to give a sensible answer? You are the one in England, Nicole, and adore the EPL. I watch the EPL every weekend, more so than the Serie A. Don't talk to me about bias, especially living here where the only soccer leagues are the EPL and MLS..

Yes, the style of play of most English teams, barring Chelsea and Man United, is rubbish when they play in Europe. Just look at Arsenal this year and their fantastic draws against Rosenborg and Panathinaikos.

There are always two English teams in the Quarterfinals? That is another wrong statement. Go back and re-read my post about the winners of the CL, that is all you need to know Nicole. No one CARES about the losers who did not reach the final of the CL... The only clubs I remember are the winners and the runners up.

 

[Nicole]

Thats right no-one does care about the losers, why like Milan won it in 2002 and some other team lose...

Tactically English teams are inferior, there defense are less constructed then Italian ones, but it also makes for great games, what was the highest scoring Italian game this season? Does it beat Arsenal's 5-4 win at Spurs? I think in Italy it is far more 'big teams against small teams', whether as in England there are more little teams getting better all the time, still nothing compared to the 'Top 3', but the gap is bigger in Italy, making it more competitive, There is Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea are good enough to win the title, with Liverpool and Newcastle needing just about 2 players (about 15-20m, spend wisely to be as good). Can the same we said in Italy?

 

[Bjerknes]

Did you watch that Arsenal-Spurs game Nicole? That was some of the worst defending I have ever seen in my life. It was very exciting, but the defending I saw was nothing to gloat about. No wonder why English teams are not well-prepared for Europe, playing week after week against teams with inept defending. You would never see such etrocious defending in Serie A..

Yes, the level of competition in England has caught up to Serie A to some extent, but is it superior? No. Italy has sides like Udinese and Messina that give the top clubs difficult matches. I think the fact that Inter won their CL group with Werder Bremen and Valencia off in the distance behind them all while struggling in the Serie A gives light to the competition in Italy. It is not as imbalanced as you think. In my eyes the Serie A is toughest Championship, as all the teams know how to defend and any little slipups will be capitalized by the opposing side. But the level of competition in the two is about equal in terms of the mid table sides in their respective leagues.

 

[Nicole]

Messina is a little bit fluke, they were just prompted same as in England a few seasons ago, Ipswich got prompted and did excetionptional well in there first season getting into Europe, but were relegated the year after.

What about teams like Portsmouth? They beat Man utd, arsenal and Chelsea were SO LUCKY to beat them, Portsmouth deserved to win. And Bolton? Always do well against the best teams.

Yes, I saw the game, and I admit the defending was absolutely awful, but it does create great games, sometimes you want Italian teams to be less cautious, it would make Serie A more exciting, but it would never happen. In Italy what is most important is end product, so alot of teams so to big teams and do nothing, sometimes it is annoying! But English teams do it also, but there are still those that do give the big teams trouble.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

nobody in the right mind should say that the EPL is rubbish. its just way too idolized in english speaking countries. it comes down to a matter of taste.

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++
Tactically English teams are inferior, there defense are less constructed then Italian ones, but it also makes for great games, what was the highest scoring Italian game this season? Does it beat Arsenal's 5-4 win at Spurs? I think in Italy it is far more 'big teams against small teams', whether as in England there are more little teams getting better all the time, still nothing compared to the 'Top 3', but the gap is bigger in Italy, making it more competitive, There is Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea are good enough to win the title, with Liverpool and Newcastle needing just about 2 players (about 15-20m, spend wisely to be as good). Can the same we said in Italy?

One could possibly argue Serie A is a victim of its own cynicism, worst of all probably Juventus where nothing counts but winning and such dynasties are built and conserved to such degree that smaller clubs never have a say in it. When it comes to league titles, it's much the same all round the table, Juve/Milan in Italy, ManU/Arsenal in England, Real Madrid/contender in Spain over the last decade. But what changes less in Italy are the immediate runner-up positions, it's been mostly Inter, Lazio, Roma taking those positions, whereas in Spain it changes a lot from year to year. Serie A is very uniform aside from the bottom half of the table and maybe that makes for a dull league for some people.

 

[The Arif]

++ [ originally posted by Nicole ] ++
Yes, and English teams DO adapt, that is why there is ALWAYS like at least 2 English teams in the QuaterFinals, you CANT say that English teams are useless. Andy, you are too biased to give a sensible answer, that 'their tactics and style of play is rubbish' that is a genius deduction, and how did you come up with that is it, Juve excellent record against English teams, like the 4-0 against United, or the 1-0 lose you suffered to NEWCASTLE! I cant wait until we get Juve after we beat Milan, then when we beat you then, then you can also say about our 'rubbish tactics and style of play'.

FYI, it wasn't 4-0 against Man U, but 3-0, and in the game against Newcastle, which Juve lost 10, Juve have already secured the next round of the CL.

 

[Nicole]

Lucky Juve, well I hope Juve beat Real, I hate them more then anyone (joint with Liverpool and Lazio)