[ENG] Premiership 2008/2009 (27 Viewers)

[Fred]

I do think what Pitbull is saying is right actually. It is completely unethical what Arsenal, Man Utd and the other EPL teams do when they poach players. I wouldn't blame Macheda, Petrucci, Cesc, Merida and co, as anybody in their place would jump at the chance of a professional contract and a higher pay. But the blame lies on English clubs for stealing those youngsters and tempting them with money and jobs for their parents. Its unfair especially on the small clubs as it leaves them no chance if they were to develop players only for the big English teams to poach them before they sign a contract.

Arsenal has benefited from this policy of poaching youngsters, but to be fair it is unethical. I'm sure most English teams fans would cry wolf if it were to happen to them. That imo is hypocritical.

 

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[bianconero]

If youngster is "poached" from another European club of relative equal standing it is seen as unethical: but if the youngster is from an African club, an Asian club, a South American club, an Eastern European club, or from a club from a perceived lesser European league, is that alright then?

 

[Enron]

If youngster is "poached" from another European club of relative equal standing it is seen as unethical: but if it if the youngster is from an African club, an Asian club, a South American club, an Eastern European club, or from a club from a perceived lesser European league, is that alright then?

I think it's only unethical if a rival team or league benefits from "poaching" a foreign player. If your team benefits from it, we call it good business.

 

[Fred]

If youngster is "poached" from another European club of relative equal standing it is seen as unethical: but if the youngster is from an African club, an Asian club, a South American club, an Eastern European club, or from a club from a perceived lesser European league, is that alright then?

No. How did you infer that from my post?

 

[bianconero]

No. How did you infer that from my post?

I didnt. But I thought it a valid point to throw into the mixture.
What's your opinion: Arsenal have benifited from their expert overseas talent spoters, and well done to them too.

 

[Raz]

Do you think that african talent would have become that good if they had stayed? if not the clubs wouldnt got any compensation from them in this situation too.

In my opinion the problem with african talent is not poaching, but not enough places they could prosper in their own invaroment.

 

[Osman]

NO, the difference here is the EPL teams benifite from a law that GIVES them the right to give pro contracts to players younger then 17. Thats the thing here, thats why Cesc and et al leave so early, the clubs that nurtured them CANT give them a pro contract, and the EPL clubs benifite from this one-sided thing.

There is a difference from you signing a talent from somehwere else for money, and the club as being poorer, would want to sell (or forced to)and cash in. Or you LOSING your huge talent for NOTHING (yeah, the EPL clubs dont even pay shit), and not being able to give him a pro contract, even if you can afford it and it would prolly mean he will stay.

Lazio is a mid level club, so a Lazio player going to a huge club like Man U is understandable, part of the game and fair for a player to take such a career upgrade. But the thing is HOW they gotten Macheda, they basically took him for nothing, due to that parasitical law of UK clubs being able to offer pro contracts when rest of Europe cant.

 

[Raz]

Didnt know that.

So why dont the English FA go for the simple fix? Change the rule to to 18 years pro contracts? Or why UEFA doesnt intervene?

 

[Fred]

Do you think that african talent would have become that good if they had stayed? if not the clubs wouldnt got any compensation from them in this situation too.

In my opinion the problem with african talent is not poaching, but not enough places they could prosper in their own invaroment.

Still, the young player's club should get adequate compensation at least.

I didnt. But I thought it a valid point to throw into the mixture.
What's your opinion: Arsenal have benifited from their expert overseas talent spoters, and well done to them too.

Like i said above, if the players club gets adequate compensation then its ok.

 

[Raz]

Still, the young player's club should get adequate compensation at least.

Like i said above, if the players club gets adequate compensation then its ok.

True, i totally agree on that

 

[Fred]

Didnt know that.

So why dont the English FA go for the simple fix? Change the rule to to 18 years pro contracts? Or why UEFA doesnt intervene?

Whatever it is, something should be done. This simply can't go on. Ironically Wenger and Ferguson are the biggest and loudest whiners when Spanish clubs(read Real, Barca) tap up their players. A taste of their own medicine i'd say.

 

[bianconero]

If we look at the individuals (the younsters and families) it seems only too ethical.

How does one Compensate for these youngsters, afterall not all of them are sucessful.

 

[Red]

Didnt know that.

So why dont the English FA go for the simple fix? Change the rule to to 18 years pro contracts? Or why UEFA doesnt intervene?

UEFA, I believe, want to change things.

The English FA will never do it because it would piss off the big English clubs.

 

[Raz]

If we look at the individuals (the younsters and families) it seems only too ethical.

How does one Compensate for these youngsters, afterall not all of them are sucessful.

There could be future fees implemented. Like for instance after 50 or 100 matches some sum would be transfered, add to that a % from future transfers, a normal % not 1 or 2, but 25/50 etc. Or something similar to this

although I agree this isnt such a fool proof plan, because if one doesnt sell best player in the world after poaching it, no compensation is made compared to the players ability.

 

[Osman]

Lazio chief calls for change

Lotito demands changes to avoid repeat of Macheda transfer

Lazio president Claudio Lotito has called for the Italian FA to make changes to the rules regarding home-grown players to halt an exodus of youngsters from moving abroad.

The Lazio chief was speaking after one of the club's former starlets Federico Macheda marked his Manchester United debut with a stunning last-gasp winner against Aston Villa on Sunday.

The 17-year-old left Lazio in September 2007 after coming through the ranks of the Italian club's youth system and the Lazio president is still bitter about the transfer.

Lotito is adamant that new rules need to be put in place to protect the clubs who produce home-grown players from losing out when they get older.

At present Italian clubs are not allowed to tie youngsters to professional contracts until the age of 18 whereas in England the age is 16.

"We tried in every way to stop Manchester United from taking away our player but the present Italian regulations don't give you any type of defence," he said.

Cattle market
"In reality we find ourselves in front of a proper cattle market. I talked repeatedly with Macheda's parents, we established a dialogue, but it was not possible to do anything.

"We could not compete with United's offer.

"That is not right, we have to be provided with more reliable and concrete rules than those which govern Italian clubs."

 

[Fred]

If we look at the individuals (the younsters and families) it seems only too ethical.

How does one Compensate for these youngsters, afterall not all of them are sucessful.

There could be future fees implemented. Like for instance after 50 or 100 matches some sum would be transfered, add to that a % from future transfers, a normal % not 1 or 2, but 25/50 etc. Or something similar to this

although I agree this isnt such a fool proof plan, because if one doesnt sell best player in the world after poaching it, no compensation is made compared to the players ability.

..

 

[bianconero]

There could be future fees implemented. Like for instance after 50 or 100 matches some sum would be transfered, add to that a % from future transfers, a normal % not 1 or 2, but 25/50 etc. Or something similar to this

although I agree this isnt such a fool proof plan, because if one doesnt sell best player in the world after poaching it, no compensation is made compared to the players ability.

The basis of a very sound idea.

But in a world where a 17 year old can play in a game so significant as the match yesterday, doesn't it seem absurd that that youngster, if still playing for Lazio, wouldn't have a professional contract?

 

[Fred]

Rules aren't made for exceptions.

 

[Red]

The basis of a very sound idea.

But in a world where a 17 year old can play in a game so significant as the match yesterday, doesn't it seem absurd that that youngster, if still playing for Lazio, wouldn't have a professional contract?

It would, arguably, make more sense for other countries to move into line with what goes on in the UK.

I don't know what the legal situation is generally in other countries regarding contracts for under 18's is though.

 

[bianconero]

Rules aren't made for exceptions.

They are, that's what rules are for to stop exceptions.