[ENG] Premier League 2015/2016 (33 Viewers)

[Hist]

City will have a better team with their resources , what they lack is proper coaching and team building. Also De Bruyne and Silva will take care of the creative burden as AMs. But they need a CM in that mould plus DM. Gundogan and someone else for Busquets / Xabi role. Shouldn't be hard to attract those types with their coach and money.

Its going to take a lot of money to bring in 1 CM and 1 DM that can play Pep's passing game. They also lack adequate wingers and strikers. Sterling, Nasri and Bony wont cut it. You are talking 5 players, when Icardi (who is not good enough) costs 40 mill today.

This summer the market will be crazy inflated with Bayern (Ancellotti), City (Pep) ,Madrid (banned the year after) , ATM (banned the year after), UTD (mourinho) and Liverpool (Klopp) hitting the market with everything they have got

 

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[Osman]

They have the money and the draw. And sterling and DE Bruyne are exceptional wingers to work with. They need one more option on the right and should be set. You underrate Sterling. He has 9 goals and several assists in this half season under mediocre Pellegrini as a winger. As inside forward for Pep offense he should be able to express himself more.

 

[icemaη]

Sterling is cack. He'll be in Tottenham and then Sunderland very soon

 

[il brutto]

Yeah Sterling has been average at best this season not saying he can't improve under Pep. Calling Pellegrini mediocre is also quite unfair considering he has done well everywhere he has coached and blaming him for Sterlings form is even more unreasonable when Pellegrini actually gives his attacking players lot of trust and freedom to do well.

 

[Zacheryah]

City will have a better team with their resources , what they lack is proper coaching and team building. Also De Bruyne and Silva will take care of the creative burden as AMs. But they need a CM in that mould plus DM. Gundogan and someone else for Busquets / Xabi role. Shouldn't be hard to attract those types with their coach and money.

He'll have alot of work to be done. The right work ethic and winning mentality (he'll nail that down, but takes time), his specific gameplan and passing game (personel, and takes time).

Thing is tho, its not that easy to get such a midfield. A technical good passing cdm, and 2 cm's with worldclass technique, vision and passing and workrate. And they need to be significantly ahead of the curve.


Kroos, Modric, Verratti, Gundogan, Marchisio, Iniesta, Rakitic. None of those will even consider City

 

[Osman]

They have Silva and De Bruyne, and they can easily get Gundogan.

 

[Maddy]

Kroos, Modric, Verratti, Gundogan, Marchisio, Iniesta, Rakitic. None of those will even consider City

You haven't got the slightest clue whether or not they'll consider City.

Opinionated and ignorant. Worst combo ever.

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City will have a better team with their resources , what they lack is proper coaching and team building. Also De Bruyne and Silva will take care of the creative burden as AMs. But they need a CM in that mould plus DM. Gundogan and someone else for Busquets / Xabi role. Shouldn't be hard to attract those types with their coach and money.

They have the money and the draw. And sterling and DE Bruyne are exceptional wingers to work with. They need one more option on the right and should be set. You underrate Sterling. He has 9 goals and several assists in this half season under mediocre Pellegrini as a winger. As inside forward for Pep offense he should be able to express himself more.

Thank you for the nuances. This thread needs them

 

[Zacheryah]

You haven't got the slightest clue whether or not they'll consider City.

Opinionated and ignorant. Worst combo ever.

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Thank you for the nuances. This thread needs them

Correction, aside from Gundogan.

The others wont consider city, unless you are delusional

 

[Osman]

Yeah Sterling has been average at best this season not saying he can't improve under Pep. Calling Pellegrini mediocre is also quite unfair considering he has done well everywhere he has coached and blaming him for Sterlings form is even more unreasonable when Pellegrini actually gives his attacking players lot of trust and freedom to do well.

Pellegrini is mediocre in general not for one player. His team has been disjointed and brainless tactically for so long and it's on him. Especially his tactics for defence, but in general every section of the team seems on its own. He never adapts to others tactics and using Yaya in two man center midfield is dumb as fuck.


Sterling was vastly overpaid but far from average, get off your high horses. He has scored plenty. Will do better in organised attacking set up with Pep, while currently their approach is more individualistic. No one runs for each other and open space for one another. That's on the coach.

 

[Dostoevsky]

It's not the name that attracts the players. It's the money. And City surely can offer that.

That goes for 99% of the players. Majority of those aren't 1%.

 

[Red]

And I suspect Guardiola being coach more than cancels out any issue of the name 'Man City', if that was an issue.

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Here's a response to the chat the other day about Leicester not being up to playing in the CL:

At the other extreme Leicester’s success is something more grave, evidence of the chronic mediocrity of the Premier League. For the richest teams, finishing second to Leicester should be an indelible spot of shame. There have already been dark mutterings about the ease with which Real Madrid , Barcelona or Bayern Munich might swat aside England’s own-brand champions next season. Who knows, perhaps even with the same ease they’ve been swatting aside Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool for the last five years.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/feb/11/leicester-city-no-fairytale-claudio-ranieri



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And here is a highly pretentious article about Wenger with an interesting point hidden away in it:

The drift into self-parody

It is perhaps the coaches who stay longest at a club who are most susceptible to that process of diminution – or, at least, in whom the process can most readily be discerned. Brian Clough, for instance, changed after the split with his assistant Peter Taylor in 1981. He also lost his long-time coach Jimmy Gordon to retirement that summer, while finding himself restricted financially, partly by repayments on the loan taken out to build the new stand at the City Ground and partly by the largely unsuccessful signings of Justin Fashanu, Ian Wallace and Peter Ward for a combined £2.7m.

Forest could no longer go out and sign the likes of Trevor Francis, but Clough also stopped buying the likes of Larry Lloyd and Kenny Burns. The great side of the late 70s that, in the space of four seasons won promotion, the league, two League Cups and two European Cups, featured a core of difficult personalities other clubs had given up on, players written off elsewhere as drinkers or gamblers or awkward bastards.

By the eighties, the make-up of Clough’s squad had changed. “I didn’t mind naughty boys,” Taylor wrote in With Clough By Taylor. “Underneath many of them had hearts of gold – Brian was different from me. He preferred the good lads.” Perhaps it was the absence of Taylor, perhaps it was his mutually bruising experience with the wilful and articulate Fashanu, perhaps he was simply tired but Forest’s personality changed, from the rough-and-ready drinkers of the seventies to the good boys of the eighties with hair as neat as their passing.

Clough’s ambitions changed as well: once he had wanted trophies and had manipulated chairmen and pulled all manner of scams to achieve that goal; by the 80s, playing neat football was enough. Keeping Forest consistently in the top six was in itself an extraordinary achievement given their resources, but in the 70s he had smashed through those limitations.

A diminution of ambition

Wenger, although a very different character to Clough, has perhaps gone through a similar process. His great sides featured rough diamonds and hard men but more recently, with the constraints imposed by the repayments on the new stadium, there is a clear template of an Arsenal player: their squad is full of small technically accomplished creative midfielders. They might not have the neat side partings of eighties-era Forest, but there is a clear Arsenal haircut. And, as with Forest, there is a sense that, in the face of clubs with far greater resources, winning trophies has almost been forgotten about in favour of playing technically adept football in the manager’s image.

In part, perhaps, there is an element of self-parody to this. In his introduction to the 20th-anniversary edition of Infinite Jest, the writer and critic Tom Bissell observes that “all great stylists eventually become prisoners of their style”. It’s understandable that managers should fall victim to the same process: rather than asking how best to solve a problem, Wenger begins to ask how Arsène Wenger would solve the problem.

He has solved countless problems in the past, so he turns to past experience; there is a danger, though, that what was successful in the past will no longer be successful, either because of a false identification – that is, that a present problem resembles a past problem but is in fact different – or simply because circumstances have changed. The result is that Wenger becomes ever more Wengerian, that the experience of past success becomes – counterintuitively – an obstacle to future success. It may be that this is why, with a handful of exceptions, most notably Alex Ferguson, managers seem to be limited to a decade of sustained achievement at the very peak of the game.

In that, the media and public have a role. The need for narrative and readily understood personalities means that Wenger is encouraged to be Wengerian. However independent he may be, there must be an aversion, however subconscious, to being questioned about abandoning your principles. If Wenger had gone out last summer and smashed Arsenal’s transfer record to sign a holding midfielder, it would in a sense have been an admission that for years he’s been wrong and the public has been right; stubbornness sets in – and, as stubbornness becomes part of the Wenger personality, becomes self-perpetuating.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/feb/11/arsenal-arsene-wenger-title-leicester

 

[il brutto]

Pellegrini is mediocre in general not for one player. His team has been disjointed and brainless tactically for so long and it's on him. Especially his tactics for defence, but in general every section of the team seems on its own. He never adapts to others tactics and using Yaya in two man center midfield is dumb as $#@!.


Sterling was vastly overpaid but far from average, get off your high horses. He has scored plenty. Will do better in organised attacking set up with Pep, whole currently their approach is more individualistic. No one runs for each other and open space for one another. That's on the coach.

I watch quite a lot of PL games and Sterling has been bad in most of his games I've seen. Yes he has scored some goals but his overall play has been really lacking. I don't see City's attacking play individualistic at all the only individualist on that attack is Sterling and that's why he has been benched a lot this season as they like to pass the ball along the ground in to the box. It's Pep who likes to isolate players more to have as much of one on ones as possible and I think that approach will fit Sterling really well as it fits Coman and Costa at the moment.

Pellegrini is a really underrated coach but I agree that he is defensively naive and likes to play attacking football even if it means risking a result. Yaya is their Pirlo this season he is a liability defensively and everyone sees it except the coach.

 

[Ocelot]

And I suspect Guardiola being coach more than cancels out any issue of the name 'Man City', if that was an issue.

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Here's a response to the chat the other day about Leicester not being up to playing in the CL:

At the other extreme Leicester’s success is something more grave, evidence of the chronic mediocrity of the Premier League. For the richest teams, finishing second to Leicester should be an indelible spot of shame. There have already been dark mutterings about the ease with which Real Madrid , Barcelona or Bayern Munich might swat aside England’s own-brand champions next season. Who knows, perhaps even with the same ease they’ve been swatting aside Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool for the last five years.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/feb/11/leicester-city-no-fairytale-claudio-ranieri

 

[Osman]

I watch quite a lot of PL games and Sterling has been bad in most of his games I've seen. Yes he has scored some goals but his overall play has been really lacking. I don't see City's attacking play individualistic at all the only individualist on that attack is Sterling and that's why he has been benched a lot this season as they like to pass the ball along the ground in to the box. It's Pep who likes to isolate players more to have as much of one on ones as possible and I think that approach will fit Sterling really well as it fits Coman and Costa at the moment.

Pellegrini is a really underrated coach but I agree that he is defensively naive and likes to play attacking football even if it means risking a result. Yaya is their Pirlo this season he is a liability defensively and everyone sees it except the coach.

Yaya Toure should play with 2 CMs not 1. Its that simple. He used to play with De Jong and Barry and wrecked havoc. Now he still score goals but is liability when he is played as one of 2 CMs, retarded.


And their play is individualistic, in the sense that NO ONE RUNS IN UNISON and work for eachother. When someone has the ball in attacking zones, rest stand around waiting for the ball. The same happens for the defence, the midfield rarely helps them as a unit and leave them exposed. Its a "passable" clusterfuck that Pellegrini has cultivated, its not a team with any sensible tactics or system.



I have seen him plenty of times too, Sterling, and he has his flaws. But come the fuck on, dude is 21 and has scored 10 goals and assisted for 4, how the heck is he average? His individual ability and speed will be the kind of individualistic weapon a Pep system will use alot (like how Costa and Coman are right now, with Sterling being more of a goal threat then both), Pep's approach is key on creating space for these players in final third. I will be shocked if Sterling doesnt do alot better with him.

 

[Red]

And their play is individualistic, in the sense that NO ONE RUNS IN UNISON and work for eachother. When someone has the ball in attacking zones, rest stand around waiting for the ball.

That's true, but I put that down more to the misconstruction of the squad that Pellegrini's coaching.

He'd be asking their forwards to do something that doesn't come naturally because they are all player who want the ball to feet, rather than attacking the space to either receive a pass or to open up space for someone else.


In general, Pellegrini may be a nice guy that the players like working with, but you wonder if Man City's performances would be any less organised (in attack and defence) if they didn't have a coach.

 

[il brutto]

Yaya Toure should play with 2 CMs not 1. Its that simple. He used to play with De Jong and Barry and wrecked havoc. Now he still score goals but is liability when he is played as one of 2 CMs, retarded.


And their play is individualistic, in the sense that NO ONE RUNS IN UNISON and work for eachother. When someone has the ball in attacking zones, rest stand around waiting for the ball. The same happens for the defence, the midfield rarely helps them as a unit and leave them exposed. Its a "passable" cluster$#@! that Pellegrini has cultivated, its not a team with any sensible tactics or system.



I have seen him plenty of times too, Sterling, and he has his flaws. But come the $#@! on, dude is 21 and has scored 10 goals and assisted for 4, how the heck is he average? His individual ability and speed will be the kind of individualistic weapon a Pep system will use alot (like how Costa and Coman are right now, with Sterling being more of a goal threat then both), Pep's approach is key on creating space for these players in final third. I will be shocked if Sterling doesnt do alot better with him.

It's an odd one because they started the season so well and looked like a really good team and as the season has progressed they have lost their identity. I have to say that Silva being injured and out of form might be big part of that because he is the one who usually runs the show and makes everyone better around him.

I agree that Sterling has all the potential to be a really good player and that people tend to give him too much stick including me but that's mostly down to that ridiculous price tag and the usual over the top praise by the media in the last couple of seasons.

 

[Osman]

That's true, but I put that down more to the misconstruction of the squad that Pellegrini's coaching.

He'd be asking their forwards to do something that doesn't come naturally because they are all player who want the ball to feet, rather than attacking the space to either receive a pass or to open up space for someone else.


In general, Pellegrini may be a nice guy that the players like working with, but you wonder if Man City's performances would be any less organised (in attack and defence) if they didn't have a coach.

Thats exactly it. Litterally doesnt feel like they are being coached. Both games vs us, the amount of effort we needed to shut them down was minimum, and even if we were poor in taking advantage of it, the amount of space readily offered to our attack was ridicolously amateurish. We just walked through the static midfield and the defenders were falling over eachother confused. I seen them like this many games for past seasons, more so now. Its a 4-4-2 but with NO nuances or flexibility, no tangible gameplan and sense of purpose in what the team are supposed to do together. Besides overlapping fullbacks, I rarely ever see others moving/running for eachother or to get into space the ball holder can exploit. Its just lazily doing the predictable and passing. Besides some players limitation, this is a team that alot of skill and talent in their arsenal. But its rarely ever used except the deadly finishing when they do the routine upfront. can anyone honestly say they seen any improvement in City since he took over?


Its stupifiying why the coach wouldnt be held accountable to this level of bare minimum coaching. Leicester game was the last straw for me. Shocking to see players with such ability and so much invested into them being easily manuevered by a team that do what they fail to, defend as a unit and run into space in very well trained patterns, litterally knowing what to do to find eachother all the time. Basic counter attacking approach with decent amount of smart running. Pellegrini was not only too simple to adapt to it, but his team was jamming their heads at a clogged center field, standing around while the ball holder was looking around. An embarrassment.

 

[Red]

Aberdeen had a coach like that a few years ago.

It really made me wonder what he was doing to fill the hours through the week and what was being done in training.

 

[Osman]

I agree that Sterling has all the potential to be a really good player and that people tend to give him too much stick including me but that's mostly down to that ridiculous price tag and the usual over the top praise by the media in the last couple of seasons.

His price tag and what the english media say about their priced starlets is not his fault. Paradoxically he needs to improve his finishing, decision making (footballing IQ in overall), at times unpolished techniqe. But his skillset is extremely potent one, and he is still doing very well for a 21 year old. He will become a top player if he stays focused (seems to focus on his football in City and not the outside the pitch incidents like with Pool), in what level of one is up to him. English football school is limited, and its shown in the flaws to their best talents like Sterling. But someone with that amount of speed and dribbling ability (can embarrass most defenders with ease), and improving finishing/interplay with others will do some damage if used right. And his next coach is someone who let players like this thrive and creates space for them alot so expect him to make some of you eat humble pie. That is just to those calling this kind of offensive impact average:

 

[il brutto]

can anyone honestly say they seen any improvement in City since he took over?

Mancini win 59.16%
Pellegrini win 63.7%

So a small improvement but not by much. I think most of their fans do however prefer Pellegrini's play style over Mancini's plus he is 100x more likable. His clear problem has been inconsistency of their play as they can be unbeatable for a while and then turn to utter garbage and lose to Sunderland.