[ENG] Premier League 2014/2015 (25 Viewers)

[Xperd]

I despise Totti but at the very least,he'll be considered an Italian and a Serie A great,no doubt about it.

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meh I don't even think arsenal's invincible team was that good of a team on paper, sure it was more balanced than most others wenger has managed in his time but in terms of individual quality it wasn't, don't forget they drew 12 matches that season which is a lot

PL was the 4th best league in terms of co-efficients at the time,not surprising they went unbeaten when the league was much weaker much like how we achieved the unbeaten run in a really weak league.

 

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[Post Ironic]

I despise Totti but at the very least,he'll be considered an Italian and a Serie A great,no doubt about it.

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PL was the 4th best league in terms of co-efficients at the time,not surprising they went unbeaten when the league was much weaker much like how we achieved the unbeaten run in a really weak league.

Yes, he shall be considered such, I suppose my point is that does he deserve such recognition for what he achieved? Overinflated stats by playing for a team that was mediocre most years (the same reason Di Natale and his excellent goalscoring record are overlooked because he was playing for Udinese), and in the one year they were really good, his goal and assist totals plummeted. A mostly pathetic national team career full of choke jobs. A very mediocre Champion's league career. A very poor record of performances against top teams like Juventus. 1 scudetto, 2 Coppa Italias in over 20 years in Serie A. And it's not like Roma has been a poor team, they've spent money over the years. They just built their team around Totti and that was never going to work. He's very good, but he's not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Where I'd be swayed to give him "great" status is with his longevity. He's been at that good-to-very good level for an incredibly long time. That's impressive. And maybe that's enough for "great" in some eyes. But I don't see any single season or set of seasons of his standing out next to 97/98 Del Piero or 03/04 Thierry Henry to name two players that people here think are of that same level. I'd put him on the level below such players. I don't think he'd be looked at as half the player if he'd played for a bigger club where he wasn't the focal point of everything for the last 12 years. After Montella and Batistuta crumbled after 00-01 and 01-02 the reigns were given to Totti to be the focal point in attack, and that led to his high goalscoring years, while on a mediocre team that won pretty much nothing, even with a down and out Juventus.

I've watched him play a lot of matches for both Roma and the National team. I see him as very talented. But someone who never made the most of those talents. He's mentally weak, and it showed with his poor performances whenever it counted most.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

He's a cunt, but a talented cunt indeed.

Like you said though, it sure helps when like 90% of everything goes through you as a top player in a shit team. It gets you no trophies but it also gives you some massively inflated stats.


So he'll go down as a great but casuals wouldn't think of all this, they just see a great goal tally and longevity. Thank God he's won fuck all next to Juve players in the same time span, the guy really is a prick.

 

[Fred]

@PostIronic You're my new favorite poster, keep preaching the Henry praise

 

[Klin]

Shut the fuck up, Fred.

psychology wasn't an obligatory subject at school.

OMFG

 

[pitbull]

PostIronic I won't target the whole premise which is pretty wrong, but I found the point about Roma spending money being especially funny, their wage list compared to other big dogs:

2012/13:
Roma 95
Milan 120
Juventus 115
Inter 100

2009/10:
Inter 150
Milan 125.5
Juventus 115
Roma 69.7

2007/08
Inter 120
Milan 110
Juventus 96.9
Roma 59.2

i think seven/eight was the first year gazzetta started doing these wage comparisons, at least on a quick search i cant find earlier wage summaries, but i think this has been the picture about roma's spending power throughout totti's career, they're always behind.

 

[Fred]

Shut the fuck up, Fred.



OMFG

I always have one response for you, read my usertitle

 

[Xperd]

Agreed with pitbull.Traditionally,the big 3 have always been ahead of Roma financially and sporting wise.Every time Roma contested a title challenge,there was always a stronger team ahead of the pack so Roma were seen as this 'outsider' needed to break the trend.

So i think its wrong to direct the blame onto him solely for the lack of silverware at Roma.

Trophies shouldnt be the basis for rating a player's ability.

What i agree though is that he's been a flop in CL.Barely ever shone on the European stage in the few seasons Roma participated in.

Still im glad anyways that he dint win much.He deserves no less for his pathetic arrogance.

 

[Post Ironic]

PostIronic I won't target the whole premise which is pretty wrong, but I found the point about Roma spending money being especially funny, their wage list compared to other big dogs:

2012/13:
Roma 95
Milan 120
Juventus 115
Inter 100

2009/10:
Inter 150
Milan 125.5
Juventus 115
Roma 69.7

2007/08
Inter 120
Milan 110
Juventus 96.9
Roma 59.2

i think seven/eight was the first year gazzetta started doing these wage comparisons, at least on a quick search i cant find earlier wage summaries, but i think this has been the picture about roma's spending power throughout totti's career, they're always behind.

They actually spent quite large amounts around the year 2000. Coincidentally they also won a scudetto in that year. So spending does help. Aside from that, I said that they spent money, not that they spent the amount Milan, Juve and Inter spent. They didn't surround Totti with complete scrubs was my main point. And considering that Montella had a season equal to Totti in 2000-01 and Batistuta was the best player on the team that year, especially looking at performances against the teams that finished 2-5 I'm the table, Totti clearly was never a player to lead a team to a championship as their superstar. He wasn't good enough. He had the talent, no one is denying that, but he wasn't a particularly hard worker, and he was incredibly weak mentally.

Anyways, my point still stands. He was a CL flop, and a flop for the Azurri. He has rarely performed well against the big sides in Serie A, only 9 goals and 3 assists in 35 matches against Juventus attest to that. He scored a shit ton of goals against the lesser sides of Serie A, and was a brilliant player against inferior opposition, but did very little when the going got tough, and the stage was biggest. That's not really arguable. Sorry. I'm shocked there are so many people on here trying to argue otherwise without providing anything to back their arguments up.

I am open to changing my mind if someone can show me how Totti performed well in big matches against top competition on a regular basis. I just don't think that's possible, because from everything I've seen, and all the statistics on him, the opposite seems true.

 

[Vlad]

Yes, he shall be considered such, I suppose my point is that does he deserve such recognition for what he achieved? Overinflated stats by playing for a team that was mediocre most years (the same reason Di Natale and his excellent goalscoring record are overlooked because he was playing for Udinese), and in the one year they were really good, his goal and assist totals plummeted. A mostly pathetic national team career full of choke jobs. A very mediocre Champion's league career. A very poor record of performances against top teams like Juventus. 1 scudetto, 2 Coppa Italias in over 20 years in Serie A. And it's not like Roma has been a poor team, they've spent money over the years. They just built their team around Totti and that was never going to work. He's very good, but

Between 2001-2011 Roma had financial difficulties and wasn't able to invest significantly on the market, often needed to sell their best player in order to survive. It's a load of rubbish to state that they spent much, when they barely avoided bankruptcy.

After Montella and Batistuta crumbled after 00-01 and 01-02 the reigns were given to Totti to be the focal point in attack, and that led to his high goalscoring years, while on a mediocre team that won pretty much nothing, even with a down and out Juventus.

he's not good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

This is of course false as well. Totti was instrumental for their 2000/01 triumph, player that held all the reigns on the pitch, provided his team mates with numerous key passes, 13 goals scored in that campaign, while playing behind Montella and Batistuta, in a strongest league in the world is a testament to that. You're ridiculously downplaying his stats and using these only when it suits you. Also his performances during 2000 Euro were sensational and he was Azzurri's best player on the tournament.

Apart from decline of Batistuta and Montela, players like Cafu and Emerson left due to financial troubles, along with their coach Capello, and that led to their downfall in the following years, barely avoiding relegation in 2005/06. There's not much any player could accomplish in a mediocre team like Roma. Totti is a major cunt on and off the pitch, but neglecting his talent and calling him glorified version of Di Natale is insane.

 

[89man]

Between 2001-2011 Roma had financial difficulties and wasn't able to invest significantly on the market, often needed to sell their best player in order to survive. It's a load of rubbish to state that they spend much, when they baraly avoided bankruptcy. This is of course false as well. Totti was instrumental for their 2000/01 triumph, player that held all the reigns on the pitch, provided his team mates with numerous key passes, 13 goals scored in that campaign, while playing behind Montella and Batistuta, in a strongest league in the world is a testament to that. You're ridiculously downplaying his stats and using these only when it suits you. Also his performances during 2000 Euro were sensational and he was Azzurri's best player on the tournament.

Apart from decline of Batistuta and Montela, players like Cafu and Emerson left due to financial troubles, along with their coach Capello, and that led to their downfall in the following years, barely avoiding relegation in 2005/06. There's not much any player could accomplish in a mediocre team like Roma. Totti is a major $#@! on and off the pitch, but neglecting his talent and calling him glorified versin of Di Natale is insane.

 

[pitbull]

They actually spent quite large amounts around the year 2000. Coincidentally they also won a scudetto in that year. So spending does help. Aside from that, I said that they spent money, not that they spent the amount Milan, Juve and Inter spent. They didn't surround Totti with complete scrubs was my main point.

i can't comment about early 00's, because I started following footie more seriously around 2002/03, but not often one player can lead his team to league victory when there are consistently around 3 stronger teams ahead of you, that's why it is a team sport, he's never had a team around him that was financially or sporting wise among the very best in the league. Milan, Inter and Juve consistently had numerous players of Totti's level or higher.

 

[petersmit]

How is all this in the EPL thread?

 

[j0ker]

How is all this in the EPL thread?

Tuz

 

[Vlad]

How is all this in the EPL thread?

It seems that EPL is utterly boring that peeps need to bring up Serie A superstars to keep this thread alive.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Tuz gonna Tuz

 

[Post Ironic]

It seems that EPL is utterly boring that peeps need to bring up Serie A superstars to keep this thread alive.

It's not my fault that you're delusional enough to place Totti on the same level as Thierry Henry.

 

[Vlad]

It's not my fault that you're delusional enough to place Totti on the same level as Thierry Henry.

Kindly point me to the section where I made such claims. Otherwise stfu :

 

[ALC]

Kindly point me to the section where I made such claims. Otherwise stfu :

So you agree that Totti isn't as good as Henry?

 

[Vlad]

So you agree that Totti isn't as good as Henry?

No, I think he's better than Henry. Frenchman flopped during his brief spell among big boys. At that time EPL was miles bellow Serie A.