Endless Summer Mercato 2016 (68 Viewers)

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Zacheryah

Senior Member
#381
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
#381
dolph said:
I am comparing the defensive contribution not the talent. As stated before Mata does not have the skills/ Impact to be a luxury player at Juve.

And who the fuck does in insult?
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Comparing mata to platini is a great insult tbh

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Osman said:
There is a certain point that's reached you ignore a post. That Zidane (who needed the 3 man midfield behind him at all times) was doing enough defensive work being a clear sign to just move along.
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see thats simply not true. As with all AM's, he'd put in less work compared to regular midfielders, but he'd still follow a number of tactical instructions when not in possession. His defensive workrate was very far from bad. In fact, you can check the number of cards he received or fouls committed. He was far from a lazy slob that couldnt bother to do anything.

From all the fancy players at madrid (raul,ronaldo,zidane,beckham,figo) he was the one with the highest defensive contribution


But because of his ottherworldly offensive contribition, he was pushed forward as far as possible. Thats why "he had 3 midfielders behind him". Cause it would be a waste to play him deeper.
 

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Osman

Osman

Koul Khara!
#382
Aug 30, 2002
61,501
#382
You just making shit up. Even just said Zidane did more defensive work then Beckham, who defenitely did more off the ball then Zidane and even played CM for Real. Come the heck on.


The AM / trequartista of before that Zidane was one of the last players of before these kind of players were moved to the wings, needed alot of support hence had 3 CMs behind them usually. If they didn't it was basically they moved up to SS /forward behind single CF.


This all happens exactly because they were usually dead weight defensively and needed support and balance behind them to make up for the potential liability.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
#383
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
#383
I'm not talking about the need of support. Every high class AM will need that.

I'm purely focussing on zidane when he didnt have the ball. Cmon Osman, surely you remember the late challenges and silly yellow he got. Cause its quite a few.

He had tactical instructions in his area, and he executed then and frequently went a bit overboard with going in at defenders, or getting revenche for the many tackles he got
 
Hist

Hist

Founder of Hism
#385
Jan 18, 2009
11,619
#385
CrimsonianKing said:
Don't get me wrong, Kyle. I want that skilled Trequartista too. The one with the vision and skill set. I'd love nothing but that.

BUT in my eyes at least, what he can't be is lazy. And I'm not talking about just tracking back, that's the least of my worries. A AM is by definition an offensive player and somewhat responsible for everything going forward, so I know it's not in his role to be defensive.

What makes my blood boil is seeing carelessness, laziness... Being uninterested in the game as it's happening, Not bleeding for the team? something Mata is full of. Morata sometimes is like this and it frustrates the hell out of me. That's simply not Juventus material. So you could say it's his personality in the pitch and a bit of his turtle like style as well. I thought Mourinho had excellent reason to sell his ass, that Portuguese is a douchebag but he's a fighter and he likes fighters.

He's a good passer and is... was an intelligent player that with a rebuilt confidence can be a strong asset to maybe any team, but like I said, not the profile I'd look for in a player for a club like us and a team like ours.
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I don't know why you have this impression of mata. I never got the impression that he is lazy at all. He is no vidal but he is not a tree either. Seemed to me to be a normal workrate player.

I've actually looked up the stats. Your impression is baseless. Mata is the hardest working player in United.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...anchester-Uniteds-hardest-working-player.html

And you can compare his workrate to Arsenal and Liverpool players here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-is-officially-Liverpools-laziest-player.html

and here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...al-players-how-do-they-rank-by-work-rate.html
 
VuvuzelaBzz

VuvuzelaBzz

Son of a Shepherd
#386
Jun 23, 2013
311
#386
Mata's not lazy, he's just weak and relatively slow compared to most AMs his size, but that's why his game isn't reliant on either of those attributes. I like Mata as a player and for Juve my main concern isn't that he wouldn't play well here, but that as a starter the sacrifice in creative and offensive freedom from the likes of Pogba and Khedira(when he's fit) would outweigh the benefit of playing Mata. Basically, I don't want to get him just to switch to a 4312 permanently, but I would take him as a player who lets us deviate from the 352 when we have to.
 
jukazem

jukazem

Senior Member
#387
Feb 10, 2007
4,967
#387
Hist

Hist

Founder of Hism
#388
Jan 18, 2009
11,619
#388
jukazem said:
Distance covered can't be the sole indicator of hard-working, it's misleading imo. I think sprints are more taxing on the body, so you can take that stat into consideration as well for an improved indicator of 'hard-working'.
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It is not the sole indicator but it is an important indicator. You don't have to consider mata the absolute hardest working player in United but this stat is more than sufficient to show that he is not as lazy as was suggested here. A lazy ass player as described earlier simply would never be the player that runs the most on average in the team and that all I was hoping to show. I described my impression of his work rate as normal not as exceptional. He is not even doing that great at United mind you but its not for a lack of running. The team is just crap and almost every single player in the squad is no where near the form they have showed before.
Di maria, Rooney, Schweinstieger, Mata, these are not small names and they are doing way worse than they have gotten us used to.
 

j0ker

Capo di tutti capi
#389
Jan 5, 2006
22,892
#389
Hist said:
I don't know why you have this impression of mata. I never got the impression that he is lazy at all. He is no vidal but he is not a tree either. Seemed to me to be a normal workrate player.

I've actually looked up the stats. Your impression is baseless. Mata is the hardest working player in United.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...anchester-Uniteds-hardest-working-player.html

And you can compare his workrate to Arsenal and Liverpool players here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-is-officially-Liverpools-laziest-player.html

and here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...al-players-how-do-they-rank-by-work-rate.html
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I came here to posts those links.

:tup:

So much for him being lazy and not running :howler:

It shows that certain members here have no idea what they are talking about, experds

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jukazem said:
Distance covered can't be the sole indicator of hard-working, it's misleading imo. I think sprints are more taxing on the body, so you can take that stat into consideration as well for an improved indicator of 'hard-working'.
Click to expand...
[h=2]Manchester United - Distance and sprints (PL 2015/16)[/h][TABLE="width: 634"]
[TR]
[TH]Player[/TH]
[TH]Distance[/TH]
[TH]Player[/TH]
[TH]Sprints[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Juan Mata[/TD]
[TD]215.7km[/TD]
[TD]Juan Mata[/TD]
[TD]952[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chris Smalling[/TD]
[TD]198.2km[/TD]
[TD]Wayne Rooney[/TD]
[TD]803[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Daley Blind[/TD]
[TD]190.3km[/TD]
[TD]Chris Smalling[/TD]
[TD]741[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Rooney[/TD]
[TD]174.3km[/TD]
[TD]Anthony Martial[/TD]
[TD]707[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Morgan Schneiderlin[/TD]
[TD]159.7m[/TD]
[TD]Morgan Schneiderlin[/TD]
[TD]680



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-battle-when-liverpool-face-manchester-united
 
CrimsonianKing

CrimsonianKing

Count Mbangula
#390
Jan 16, 2013
27,326
#390
jukazem said:
Distance covered can't be the sole indicator of hard-working, it's misleading imo. I think sprints are more taxing on the body, so you can take that stat into consideration as well for an improved indicator of 'hard-working'.
Click to expand...
Completely misleading. This only show that he moves around more than others in his team. Hell, even De Rossi had great distance covered stats in the World Cup.

What he does at areas that matter is what's important, it's what Mourinho saw he lacked in his game. Stats only tell half the story.
 
Osman

Osman

Koul Khara!
#391
Aug 30, 2002
61,501
#391
pavluska

pavluska

Senior Member
#392
Apr 25, 2013
7,339
#392
Osman said:
You just making $#@! up. Even just said Zidane did more defensive work then Beckham, who defenitely did more off the ball then Zidane and even played CM for Real. Come the heck on.


The AM / trequartista of before that Zidane was one of the last players of before these kind of players were moved to the wings, needed alot of support hence had 3 CMs behind them usually. If they didn't it was basically they moved up to SS /forward behind single CF.


This all happens exactly because they were usually dead weight defensively and needed support and balance behind them to make up for the potential liability.
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Besides the Beckham and Figo bits (Figo defended too), he's actually right for a change. Zidane did his fair share of defensive work and was decent at it. Others behind him obviously did more, but Zizou wasn't the Platini/Totti type of trequartista who didn't defend. Zidane did less defensive work at Real and for France later on.

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Zacheryah said:
I'm not talking about the need of support. Every high class AM will need that.

I'm purely focussing on zidane when he didnt have the ball. Cmon Osman, surely you remember the late challenges and silly yellow he got. Cause its quite a few.

He had tactical instructions in his area, and he executed then and frequently went a bit overboard with going in at defenders, or getting revenche for the many tackles he got
Click to expand...


:p
 
Völler

Völler

Always spot on
#393
May 6, 2012
23,091
#393
j0ker said:
I came here to posts those links.

:tup:

So much for him being lazy and not running :howler:

It shows that certain members here have no idea what they are talking about, experds

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[h=2]Manchester United - Distance and sprints (PL 2015/16)[/h][TABLE="width: 634"]
[TR]
[TH]Player[/TH]
[TH]Distance[/TH]
[TH]Player[/TH]
[TH]Sprints[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Juan Mata[/TD]
[TD]215.7km[/TD]
[TD]Juan Mata[/TD]
[TD]952[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chris Smalling[/TD]
[TD]198.2km[/TD]
[TD]Wayne Rooney[/TD]
[TD]803[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Daley Blind[/TD]
[TD]190.3km[/TD]
[TD]Chris Smalling[/TD]
[TD]741[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Wayne Rooney[/TD]
[TD]174.3km[/TD]
[TD]Anthony Martial[/TD]
[TD]707[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Morgan Schneiderlin[/TD]
[TD]159.7m[/TD]
[TD]Morgan Schneiderlin[/TD]
[TD]680



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-battle-when-liverpool-face-manchester-united
Click to expand...
I've never seen anyone use the table feature on tuz before. +rep
 
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