Ebola Outbreak (12 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

what do you mean by strawman in the last sentence? (I know some people are going to take the piss cause you wrote it, but i'm actually asking seriously)

Deliberatly misinterpreting certain facts, to gain an advantage in your own argument.

In this case, knowing how impossibly small the chance is for the highly specialised ebolavirus that targets humans and hosts in certain mammels, can succesfully have sufficient mutation in its sense RNA sequences to alter itself enough to be able to survive and transmit trough air. But knowing barely anyone has a clue about microbiology so use the example of a totally different genus to make it seems like its a good possibility.

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Then you should have specified you meant in humans.

Obviously in the current outbreak something has gone amiss if health workers are contracting the virus while taking the proper precautions as prescribed by the CDC, WHO, et cetera. The virus has supposedly mutated countless times over the past two weeks, so that is not a good sign that they can't even keep track of all the mutations.

Hm, true, i should have.


I would like to point out, that ebolavirus has been mutating countless times since it was first discovered in the 1978(iirc). It didnt just start to do that two weeks ago.

I'd like to know why these workers keep getting infected tho.

 

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[Ocelot]

Even in the article trying to make this particular mutations seem like a real possibility they add

Osterholm and other experts couldn't think of another virus that has made the transition from non-airborne to airborne in humans.

Of course it could happen, as could a bunch of other much worse scenarios, but it's still really unlikely, and would be unprecedented in human history.

 

[Zacheryah]

the "in humans" part, is critical there.

 

[Bjerknes]

Hm, true, i should have.


I would like to point out, that ebolavirus has been mutating countless times since it was first discovered in the 1978(iirc). It didnt just start to do that two weeks ago.

I'd like to know why these workers keep getting infected tho.

Of course it has. But I was reading that scientists are alarmed with how quickly it has mutated over the past couple of weeks. If you can't track the mutations, treating it becomes more difficult.

And even the CDC director, the same guy who has tried to sugar-coat everything, believes there is a chance ebola can become airborne.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/220046-cdc-airborne-ebola-possible-but-unlikely

Nobody is saying it is probable, but saying something like space aliens have a better chance of bombing us tomorrow is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Zacheryah]

The other day i was having a talk with a girl who i've done my bachelor with (i bridged to applied engineering, she went to academic biology/microbiology studies) who recently had done a summercourse in parasitic and viral infection diseases.

She made 1 pretty strong point about ebola


"If it would become airborn,it would infect all its possible hosts simultaniously, 17% survives and kills the virus, 83% dies and the virus dies cause it runs out of hosts".


This is why the doomsday scenario "what if ebola would spread like spanish flu" cant occur naturally, as it would immediatly murder all its hosts.

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Of course it has. But I was reading that scientists are alarmed with how quickly it has mutated over the past couple of weeks. If you can't track the mutations, treating it becomes more difficult.

And even the CDC director, the same guy who has tried to sugar-coat everything, believes there is a chance ebola can become airborne.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/220046-cdc-airborne-ebola-possible-but-unlikely

Nobody is saying it is probable, but saying something like space aliens have a better chance of bombing us tomorrow is a bit ridiculous.

Every specific aspect can occur in bacteria trough mutation. But for ebola to become airborn, it is ridiculously small. Far below the statistical accepted minimum

 

[Bjerknes]

But isn't the same true with the current 90% fataility rate despite not being airborne? It would just happen on a prolonged timescale. Either way, the virus will mutate to become more resistent and stronger, so even if it doesn't become airborne it can still mutate to the point where zMapp is completely worthless.

 

[Zacheryah]

But isn't the same true with the current 90% fataility rate despite not being airborne? It would just happen on a prolonged timescale. Either way, the virus will mutate to become more resistent and stronger, so even if it doesn't become airborne it can still mutate to the point where zMapp is completely worthless.

Resistances in virusses work different then in bacteria.
Usually virusses alter their antibody attachment sites on the outside to prevent the immume system picking it up.
Bacteria on the other hand have ribosomes wich produce proteins and enzymes(after alteration) wich nullify the effect of for example antibiotics.

Virusses therefore are very good at evading the immume system, where bacteria are very good (when not to complex) at surviving chemicals.

i wouldnt worry to much about zmapp becomming obsolete. But i wouldnt consider it a wonder eighter, as its only effective in the early stage of infection.
The thing with zmapp is that its not an actual chemical. its anticlonal antibodies, wich make the immume system pick up ebola in the early stage quickly. This works as long as the antigenes are actual. when they change, you need a new zmapp strain.

How do they get zmapp ? bloodserum from survivers. So if you ever wondered why there are limited supplies of it, thats why.




There are barely survivers

 

[GordoDeCentral]

The other day i was having a talk with a girl who i've done my bachelor with (i bridged to applied engineering, she went to academic biology/microbiology studies) who recently had done a summercourse in parasitic and viral infection diseases.

She made 1 pretty strong point about ebola


"If it would become airborn,it would infect all its possible hosts simultaniously, 17% survives and kills the virus, 83% dies and the virus dies cause it runs out of hosts".


This is why the doomsday scenario "what if ebola would spread like spanish flu" cant occur naturally, as it would immediatly murder all its hosts.

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Every specific aspect can occur in bacteria trough mutation. But for ebola to become airborn, it is ridiculously small. Far below the statistical accepted minimum

that doesnt sound like such a bad plan

 

[Raz]

 

[Zacheryah]

that doesnt sound like such a bad plan

It has happened before, its why its so hard to get an actual pandemic. Usually the most effective pathogens are eighter able to survive a very long time without a host, OR have several hosts, one of them in wich it can grow but doesnt affect the host

example : Malaria can host in mosquito's and humans. It will kill humans, but doesnt affect the mosquito. Same with black plague and rodents.

 

[Ocelot]

Killing the host, especially if its done rapidly, is a pretty "stupid" thing to do for any organism whose own survival is depending on the host.

 

[Cuti]

Deliberatly misinterpreting certain facts, to gain an advantage in your own argument.

In this case, knowing how impossibly small the chance is for the highly specialised ebolavirus that targets humans and hosts in certain mammels, can succesfully have sufficient mutation in its sense RNA sequences to alter itself enough to be able to survive and transmit trough air. But knowing barely anyone has a clue about microbiology so use the example of a totally different genus to make it seems like its a good possibility.

Cheers

 

[Zacheryah]

Killing the host, especially if its done rapidly, is a pretty "stupid" thing to do for any organism whose own survival is depending on the host.

Yes but the micro organism cant do otherwise
And it mutates on chance, not purpose.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Family of Texas Ebola Patient Upset Over 'Unfair' Treatment

http://7online.com/news/family-of-texas-ebola-patient-upset-over-unfair-treatment/342231/

And there he is, posing with Jesse Jackson. Gee, I wonder what sort of accusations will come next...

 

[Zacheryah]

What a stupid black piece of shit that makes the entire afro american community look bad.


"oh QQQ a 83% mortality rate virus with a shaggy treatment in early stage killed me"


Seriously, put them all against the wall and shoot them for beeing blatant idiot peasants.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

What a stupid black piece of shit that makes the entire afro american community look bad.


"oh QQQ a 83% mortality rate virus with a shaggy treatment in early stage killed me"


Seriously, put them all against the wall and shoot them for beeing blatant idiot peasants.

And just look at that excuse. "The blood didn't match." Clearly made up as proven by the top medical professional in the country, Mr. Jackson.

 

[j0ker]

What a stupid black piece of shit that makes the entire afro american community look bad.


"oh QQQ a 83% mortality rate virus with a shaggy treatment in early stage killed me"


Seriously, put them all against the wall and shoot them for beeing blatant idiot peasants.

:wth:

 

[Zacheryah]

Let me explain something to those who arent entirely up to date.

Ebola is a virus. The reason virusses are difficult to combat, is because they cannot self reproduce. Its a tough structure, that needs to invade a host cell.

But why ?
Cells have DNA. This DNA is in the cellular core and cant pass trough the core membrame. When the cell multiplies, the entire core genome is copîed. What also can happen is transcription. This means certain sense parts of the dna are transcripted into m-RNA. This m-RNA can pass the cellular membrane into the cytoplasma of the cell. In the cytoplasma there are Ribosomes. This is a complex that translate the genetic code of the m-RNA, into a protein. In the smooth endoplasmatic reticulum and Golgi apparatus these proteins are modified to enzymes. That is what normally happens.

Virusses cant duplicate on their own. They invade a cell (usually macrophages inject their rna into the cell). The viral RNA then uses the ribosomes to reproduce itself. When the cell gets stacked with new viral cells, it burst and the virusses go invade new cells.


There is one big upside to this proces for the virus. Unlike bacteria, it doesnt need to be able to defend itself directly in chemical warefare(antibiotics), because it invades the cell, and its pretty tough to make a medicine that invades the cell. Quite simply cause what would it do ? Blocking the ribosomes would kill the host.


How does the body responds to viral infections ? The surface of the virus has certain molecules sticking out that make it possible to identify them. These are "antigenes". Antigenes are recognised by antibodies. these can be stored trough vaccination or previous infection, or have to be found anew (wich takes considerably longer). Antigenes bind to killer T-cells and eliminate the virus.

What can a virus do ? It can consistantly change the shape of its possible antigenes , target vital organs or important for immune reaction, spread fast, hides well deep into cell mass, or is difficult to kill quickly.

Ebola combines everything except the antigene thing so far (more later). It can hide pretty efficiently and avoids getting caught up early. spreads to vital organisms (for example the spleen). When it breaks out it(past incubation time, and host is now highly contagious), the host could start picking it up and form antibodies, but the virus is so crushingly effective that it will weaken and kill off the host LONG before it has even had a significant killer T-cell count with the correct antigene.


So what is zmapp ? Quite simply from survivers, blood serum is taken. In this blood serum they extract the antiklonal antibodies. These antibodies are actually zmapp. they can only be given to people with the same bloodtype as the person it was taken from.
When injected, the killer T-cells will start binding to these antibodies, and very quickly start attacking the ebolavirus they come across.

zmapp is fairly effective if administered before the end of incubation time
zmapp works untill there is a new strain of ebolavirus with a different antigene. Cause then we need to have a surviver again before his antiklonal antibodies can be harvested.


For those who did, thanks for reading and i hope i could learn you something

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Where did all of that come from?

 

[Zacheryah]

Just an explenation i wrote about what zmapp is, with sufficient placement ?