Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (7 Viewers)

[JuveJay]

No there are millions whom hear his voice and communicate with God daily so he isn't the problem in the communication

You mean these are voices in your head, not like audible voices?

 

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[AndreaCristiano]

I'm not convinced by your answer.

BTW, the reason you gave, that god revealed themselves because of faithful devotion doesn't make sense. Krishna was born because people had faith in Krishna BEFORE he was born? Non-sense. And I don't see any mention of Moses being faithful or devoted BEFORE YHWH revealed himself. God revealed himself to Noah because he was supposedly righteous, and IIRC so was Muhammad.

It had to do with faith not because they were faithful. That's fine if my answer didn't satisfy you but when atheists are the slimmest of minorities and the majority of the world populace has interactions of some kind with deity then how could it be that God is the problem in the communication. He isn't its the end user. There is a neuro scientist who has been looking at brain scans of believers and non believers during prayer or contemplation of God and the believers frontal and base lobes in the believer are active the same as if they are in intense conversation , while the atheist brain has no activity whatsoever. So the study shows that the atheist brain can not comprehend deity at all and therefore can not engage on that conversation

 

[AndreaCristiano]

You mean these are voices in your head, not like audible voices?

Its more like a voice in your soul a reverberation in the essence which you hear internally but louder than your own voice

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It had to do with faith not because they were faithful. That's fine if my answer didn't satisfy you but when atheists are the slimmest of minorities and the majority of the world populace has interactions of some kind with deity then how could it be that God is the problem in the communication. He isn't its the end user. There is a neuro scientist who has been looking at brain scans of believers and non believers during prayer or contemplation of God and the believers frontal and base lobes in the believer are active the same as if they are in intense conversation , while the atheist brain has no activity whatsoever. So the study shows that the atheist brain can not comprehend deity at all and therefore can not engage on that conversation

Faithful to what/whom? You're not making sense!

OK, so if atheists' brain cannot comprehend voices in our brains, then shouldn't god use other means of communication? Eyes and ears, for example, as they are a better means of communication? Besides, if god is responsible for everything, then he created atheists so that their brains cannot comprehend a deity. So it's unreasonable to blame the atheists for not being able to communicate with god.

BTW, Krishna was born because Brahma prayed to Lord Vishnu to end the cruelty and suffering in Mathura at that time. Your argument is invalid.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

It had to do with faith not because they were faithful. That's fine if my answer didn't satisfy you but when atheists are the slimmest of minorities and the majority of the world populace has interactions of some kind with deity then how could it be that God is the problem in the communication. He isn't its the end user. There is a neuro scientist who has been looking at brain scans of believers and non believers during prayer or contemplation of God and the believers frontal and base lobes in the believer are active the same as if they are in intense conversation , while the atheist brain has no activity whatsoever. So the study shows that the atheist brain can not comprehend deity at all and therefore can not engage on that conversation

Bro no one is blaming the atheists my point is you demand poof from everyone but in the end the problem is within. Its you the receiver who doesn't see or hear what many many do.

 

[acmilan]

It had to do with faith not because they were faithful. That's fine if my answer didn't satisfy you but when atheists are the slimmest of minorities and the majority of the world populace has interactions of some kind with deity then how could it be that God is the problem in the communication. He isn't its the end user. There is a neuro scientist who has been looking at brain scans of believers and non believers during prayer or contemplation of God and the believers frontal and base lobes in the believer are active the same as if they are in intense conversation , while the atheist brain has no activity whatsoever. So the study shows that the atheist brain can not comprehend deity at all and therefore can not engage on that conversation

that area of the brain is active also when people are hallucinating - you see the activity itself is not proof of anything other than the same reasons as during a dream/nightmare/hallucination. Of course, if one wants/needs to find something more than just that, they will even if it's not there. All in all, the mind will believe what the mind needs to believe and I'd say the mind of a believer in particular is really good at that with a lifelong experience to boot .

As for that "scientist", if he shares what you came up with as a conclusion of the "study", he should probably do everyone a favor and drop the "scientist" part altogether. then again, he may be working for the cato institute

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Bro no one is blaming the atheists my point is you demand poof from everyone but in the end the problem is within.

Ummm... Didn't you just contradict yourself?

Its you the receiver who doesn't see or hear what many many do.

Oh god, why is this so difficult for you to understand? If what is working for other is not working for people like me, then doesn't it mean that god should use alternate methods to communicate? If someone is blind, are you gonna tell him "the problem is within" and give up, or will you use alternate methods to communicate with him? Think!

 

[AndreaCristiano]

that area of the brain is active also when people are hallucinating - you see the activity itself is not proof of anything other than the same reasons as during a dream/nightmare/hallucination. Of course, if one wants/needs to find something more than just that, they will even if it's not there. All in all, the mind will believe what the mind needs to believe and I'd say the mind of a believer in particular is particularly good at that with a lifelong experience to boot .

I'm not using that as evidence in any way all I'm saying is that sheik/atheists are in the minority and they seem to be the ones whom have the difficulty believing and seeing. They also will never take one of our experiences or explanation as proof. Unless they see with their eyes and touch with their hands Alla Thomas the apostle so it is in vein that he demands proof and argues incessantly if the only thing that's gonna change his mind is him experiencing those things personally and yet the change must start from within to be accessible to it which will not happen

 

[JuveJay]

Its more like a voice in your soul a reverberation in the essence which you hear internally but louder than your own voice

People often see or hear what they want to believe. I don't believe, so I'll never hear this voice.

I'm afraid it's all chemical.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not using that as evidence in any way all I'm saying is that sheik/atheists are in the minority and they seem to be the ones whom have the difficulty believing and seeing.

Obviously those who don't believe, well, don't believe.

 

[ALC]

I'm not using that as evidence in any way all I'm saying is that sheik/atheists are in the minority and they seem to be the ones whom have the difficulty believing and seeing. They also will never take one of our experiences or explanation as proof. Unless they see with their eyes and touch with their hands Alla Thomas the apostle so it is in vein that he demands proof and argues incessantly if the only thing that's gonna change his mind is him experiencing those things personally and yet the change must start from within to be accessible to it which will not happen

back in the day, people who were against slavery were in the minority too.

People often see or hear what they want to believe. I don't believe, so I'll never hear this voice.

I'm afraid it's all chemical.

I'm afraid you're all chemical.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Ummm... Didn't you just contradict yourself?



Oh god, why is this so difficult for you to understand? If what is working for other is not working for people like me, then doesn't it mean that god should use alternate methods to communicate? If someone is blind, are you gonna tell him "the problem is within" and give up, or will you use alternate methods to communicate with him? Think!

In the end God is communicating with you. He's even used members on here to talk through to you but you're unwilling to receive. If you keep sending text messages to a phone without service the poghone won't receive them no matter how many ways you contact it SMS , email or call

 

[AndreaCristiano]

back in the day, people who were against slavery were in the minority too.



I'm afraid you're all chemical.

Yes because slavery and belief in God are the same thing. One is wired in our DNA while the other was irrational greed

 

[AndreaCristiano]

People often see or hear what they want to believe. I don't believe, so I'll never hear this voice.

I'm afraid it's all chemical.

- - - Updated - - -


Obviously those who don't believe, well, don't believe.

That's possible but scientist have studied animals and humans and we are the only ones at a very early age that identifies with the supernatural and deity. Its our mind , intellect and reason which connects us to God not from him

 

[ALC]

Yes because slavery and belief in God are the same thing. One is wired in our DNA while the other was irrational greed

i'm just saying being in the majority doesn't always mean you're right.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

i'm just saying being in the majority doesn't always mean you're right.

Nor does it mean you're wrong. Sorry bro but that analysis is weak

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'm not using that as evidence in any way all I'm saying is that sheik/atheists are in the minority and they seem to be the ones whom have the difficulty believing and seeing.

http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/14/file/14.pdf : 36% of the world population are either non-religious or atheists. Hardly a minority. And you're well aware that atheism is rapidly on the rise.

They also will never take one of our experiences or explanation as proof. Unless they see with their eyes and touch with their hands Alla Thomas the apostle so it is in vein that he demands proof and argues incessantly if the only thing that's gonna change his mind is him experiencing those things personally and yet the change must start from within to be accessible to it which will not happen

It's funny you say that, because anecdotal evidence is available for almost all religious, yet you only believe in one religion and not several. And if I was to believe in anecdotal evidence, I'd be a polytheist. Hardly sensible, highly contradictory.

You are completely disregarding the power of external influences when it comes to change. God being all-powerful can easily make us believe by giving us the evidence we need. Yet you constantly blame us instead of god.

 

[ALC]

Nor does it mean you're wrong. Sorry bro but that analysis is weak

 

[acmilan]

I'm not using that as evidence in any way all I'm saying is that sheik/atheists are in the minority and they seem to be the ones whom have the difficulty believing and seeing. They also will never take one of our experiences or explanation as proof. Unless they see with their eyes and touch with their hands Alla Thomas the apostle so it is in vein that he demands proof and argues incessantly if the only thing that's gonna change his mind is him experiencing those things personally and yet the change must start from within to be accessible to it which will not happen

they are not in the minority - it's just that your close circle of friends/acquaintances are more likely to share your convictions than not and that gives you the aforementioned illusion. But you re right, people like that atheist dog Sheiky, would be a minority at a church mass or a bible study group.

As Hutzishmutzi suggested 1000 years ago those who believed the earth wasn't at the center of the universe were a minority too; same goes for those who believed the earth wasn't flat. Before the renaissance in Europe, you could probably walk around for year and not meet one person who didn't believe in the notion of god ... today, it'smuch different. It's a slow process, will take a lot more evolution of the mind, but it's direction is clear

 

[AndreaCristiano]

http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/14/file/14.pdf : 36% of the world population are either non-religious or atheists. Hardly a minority. And you're well aware that atheism is rapidly on the rise.



It's funny you say that, because anecdotal evidence is available for almost all religious, yet you only believe in one religion and not several. And if I was to believe in anecdotal evidence, I'd be a polytheist. Hardly sensible, highly contradictory.

You are completely disregarding the power of external influences when it comes to change. God being all-powerful can easily make us believe by giving us the evidence we need. Yet you constantly blame us instead of god.

36%is a minority. Atheism on the rise is not a surprise to me as I read the book of revelation. To me my faith isn't anecdotal. Between the evidence and my personal experience it makes it the one for me. I can not speak of others

 

[AndreaCristiano]

they are not in the minority - it's just that your close circle of friends/acquaintances are more likely to share your convictions than not and that gives you the aforementioned illusion. But you re right, people like that atheist dog Sheiky, would be a minority at a church mass or a bible study group.

As Hutzishmutzi suggested 1000 years ago those who believed the earth wasn't at the center of the universe were a minority too; same goes for those who believed the earth wasn't flat. Before the renaissance in Europe, you could probably walk around for year and not meet one person who didn't believe in the notion of god ... today, it'smuch different. It's a slow process, will take a lot more evolution of the mind, but it's direction is clear

Yes just like in the 70's the prevailing scientific wisdom was global cooling and then came global warming and now climate change. Just because the direction seems concrete don't think it will stay that way