Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (24 Viewers)

[Enron]

Really? Do you see the arab nations or in the US, C.A.R.E or the Nation of Islam
From moderates to extremists muslims are more vocal for pro God anti secular than any group. In the end all these groups including other more minimal religions, all believe in a higher power, call him God, YHWH, Allah, Krishna etc etc and yet just because linebreak and I are Christians we focus on that, yet the question is " Is there a God? " Meaning an intelligent designer, or higher power or eternal spirit etc etc this question isnt geared toward a certain deity from a religious dogma, but is there a Creator or designer something bigger or higher then we are ?

You're completely over thinking the situation and giving yourself way too much credit. You're not so important (no offense intended) that I feel the need to use Christianity as an example. I just do because it is what I'm familiar with, what I've grown up with, and what I know. It's the same reason I don't argue with Tahir over Islamic fundamentals.

As for my comment I was referring to the US, in which the major religion is Christianity. I do realize that there are many religion around the world and over time that have worshipped a creator in some form.

 

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[AndreaCristiano]

You're completely over thinking the situation and giving yourself way too much credit. You're not so important (no offense intended) that I feel the need to use Christianity as an example. I just do because it is what I'm familiar with, what I've grown up with, and what I know. It's the same reason I don't argue with Tahir over Islamic fundamentals.

As for my comment I was referring to the US, in which the major religion is Christianity. I do realize that there are many religion around the world and over time that have worshipped a creator in some form.

I wasnt really pointing you out just in general.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I agree, hard evidence will potentially NEVER be found to prove God's existence imo. There's plenty of rational evidence that points to it, such as the the nature of the universe that we live in. However, it comes down to every individuals personal honest reflection on the nature of things.

No it doesn't. Truth is independent of personal feelings, faith or hope. The truth or facts do not change based on our belief or our bias. Evolution is an observable fact, and it will not stop or pause just because we cannot answer how an eye evolves. The only consistent belief system is evidence, and what you are describing to me in not that.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I actually gave two websites both by scientists who disagree with your assessment

I must have missed it. Can you post it again?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I must have missed it. Can you post it again?

http://www.godandscience.org/



http://www.reasons.org/


please read with no preconceived notions

 

[Linebreak]

No it doesn't. Truth is independent of personal feelings, faith or hope. The truth or facts do not change based on our belief or our bias. Evolution is an observable fact, and it will not stop or pause just because we cannot answer how an eye evolves. The only consistent belief system is evidence, and what you are describing to me in not that.

Evolution in no way discredits religion. Stop waving the word evolution around.

There's plenty of rational proofs for the existence of God.

 

[Enron]

I wasnt really pointing you out just in general.

No worries.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Evolution in no way discredits religion. Stop waving the word evolution around.

There's plenty of rational proofs for the existence of God.

I've not heard or seen any of these proofs for the existence of God. Even if I have, out clearly was not convincing enough.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

http://www.godandscience.org/



http://www.reasons.org/


please read with no preconceived notions

The first one seems to be motivated by christianity. Do i'm not sure if I'll read that. As for the second, I'll give it a try.

At the same time, what if I give you 2 sources that day there can't be a God. Would you believe it too?

 

[Zé Tahir]

In chapter 5 of Romans, Paul describes how We are justified before God on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ,6 who came to earth to die for the sins of mankind.7 The chapter takes us back to how we got into the current mess we are in - back to our original parents, who committed the first sins. Paul's point in doing this is to compare the transgression by the transgressor to the redemption offered through the Redeemer. In this chapter, Paul makes it clear that, although Adam and Eve committed the first sin, we are guilty on the basis of our own sin:

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (Romans 5:12)

What the original sin did was to cause the human race to fall into the practice of sin. We are born to imperfect parents, whose sin negatively influences us. We become accustomed to committing "minor" sins without regard to their negative impact on our lives and the lives of others. However, God, in His love,8 provided the means by which all people9 could become completely righteous before Him,10 thus inheriting eternal life.11

So essentially there's a 2 dimensional layer of sin. An outer dimension that was caused by Adam & Eve and an inner dimension that is caused by us.

So I'm paying for their sins in addition to my sins. For the sake of argument I can accept having to pay for my own sins but how and why should I pay for theirs? How did their sin transfer to me? Genetically?

Why couldn't God just forgive them for it instead of humanity eternally paying for their transgression? Also, wouldn't it have been easier than God later having to send "his son" only to sacrifice him for said sin? And if that is really the case shouldn't we no longer be paying for that sin?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

The first one seems to be motivated by christianity. Do i'm not sure if I'll read that. As for the second, I'll give it a try.

At the same time, what if I give you 2 sources that day there can't be a God. Would you believe it too?

I would read it and read alot of those sites, dont discredit the first site because the scientist is christian, thats what i meant of predisposition

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I would read it and read alot of those sites, dont discredit the first site because the scientist is christian, thats what i meant of predisposition

I'm sorry, I just can't.

 

[Linebreak]

I've not heard or seen any of these proofs for the existence of God. Even if I have, out clearly was not convincing enough.

Looking at the universe, the complexities, the balance, the way in which the universe is built like a building, everything effects everything else, a clear meticulous and precise balance throughout the earth and the entire universe, this points to intelligence behind the universe. Not random brainlessness.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I'm sorry, I just can't.

and we are the close minded?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

@AC: I never said you out your creed was close minded.

Looking at the universe, the complexities, the balance, the way in which the universe is built like a building, everything effects everything else, a clear meticulous and precise balance throughout the earth and the entire universe, this points to intelligence behind the universe. Not random brainlessness.

While most of the stuff toy mentioned are arguable, i'm still not convinced. Your assertion I'd that of "ought" rather than "is". It's just your guess that there is intelligence. Besides, you also haven't told me who or what this intelligence is.

 

[Linebreak]

@AC: I never said you out your creed was close minded.



While most of the stuff toy mentioned are arguable, i'm still not convinced. Your assertion I'd that of "ought" rather than "is". It's just your guess that there is intelligence. Besides, you also haven't told me who or what this intelligence is.

What I am saying is that since the world is so complex, interconnected and scrupulously balanced, it is possible that this is the work of an intelligent creator. Now of course you can ask who created that creator or where did He come from, fair enough, but as long as you are able to concede that it is possible that this infinitely large and complex universe is the work of an intelligent and powerful creator.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

What I am saying is that since the world is so complex, interconnected and scrupulously balanced, it is possible that this is the work of an intelligent creator. Now of course you can ask who created that creator or where did He come from, fair enough, but as long as you are able to concede that it is possible that this infinitely large and complex universe is the work of an intelligent and powerful creator.

Why do you want to believe in a remote possibility rather than near certainty?

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Why do you want to believe in a remote possibility rather than near certainty?

To us God isn't the remote possibility. this is something non believers can not comprehend. For one to have the faith to believe with a full heart God is the certainty

 

[AndreaCristiano]

@AC: I never said you out your creed was close minded.



While most of the stuff toy mentioned are arguable, i'm still not convinced. Your assertion I'd that of "ought" rather than "is". It's just your guess that there is intelligence. Besides, you also haven't told me who or what this intelligence is.

Ps sheik I didn't say you said that but that's the knock on us theists I was just making that statement my apologies

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

To us God isn't the remote possibility. this is something non believers can not comprehend. For one to have the faith to believe with a full heart God is the certainty

Faith does not make something true. No mater how much of it you have. When out comes to the truth, faith is irrelevant.