Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (21 Viewers)

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But if there is a why, there is certainly basis for a discussion of intelligent design. If there is a why, then we are purposefully created by something. And my question stands, what gives people the impression that there is a "why". Just reading the news for 30 minutes gives you an idea of how chaotic and random this place is. There, no mathematics, no higher philosophy or anything, simple observation.
I wonder if theists will write that off too as scientism, since it's an empirical way of viewing things?

Just because you can't understand the whole world, all events, doesn't mean there isn't a purpose.

It's like an ant walking over a large rug, seeing random incoherent colours everywhere and thinking "what kind of idiot made this stupendously hideous rug?"

But for the man standing and looking down at this rug, he can clearly see that the rug is a beautiful piece of refined art, with magnificent shapes and designs.

The first mistake of an atheist is "My mind is capable of understanding everything in the universe". It's a starting point of arrogance. The truly knowledgeable knows he can never understand everything, he starts at a position of humility.

It's more convenient for our arrogance and desires not to believe in God, because it means we are responsible for nothing, we'll do what we like in life, there are no rules and no accountability for anything.

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

The point is he created us and we're here, responsible for our actions.

You're not answering my "why's"!

Why did god create us?

 

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You're not answering my "why's"!

Why did god create us?

God created us to worship him. He didn't need to do it, but he did. So now that we're here, we're responsible for our actions. Clear and irresistibly simple.

I'm sure such an answer won't satisfy you, but this is the reality.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It's more convenient for our arrogance and desires not to believe in God, because it means we are responsible for nothing, we'll do what we like in life, there are no rules and no accountability for anything.

It's not arrogance. It's simply us exercising critical reasoning and scrutiny. We are open to possibility of god or gods as long as you provide enough evidence in support of you're claim. And logical reasoning can only get you so far.

 

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It's not arrogance. It's simply us exercising critical reasoning and scrutiny. We are open to possibility of god or gods as long as you provide enough evidence in support of you're claim. And logical reasoning can only get you so far.

Fair enough. But you want to use scientism to prove something that cannot be proved through scientism. You've already set yourself up to fail. God, for the theist, created time and space, and he is hence by nature, outside the realms of time and space. So if you want evidence in time and space of a "God particle" or whatever, you will never find it. The proof is in the signs of the world around us and in our hearts.

If you read stories of past prophets, many of their people disbelieved because they'd simply reply "yeah well if you're not lying then show us God before our eyes" which really is not that different to what modern day scientists are asking for "Show us evidence". But in reality this is the test, believing in the unseen because there is a lot of empirical evidence for the unseen, one of which is the meticulous balance in the universe.

 

[ALC]

The word "scientism" itself is some of the dumbest shit I've heard. I can't see that being used by anyone remotely serious somewhere other than an internet forum.

 

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The word "scientism" itself is some of the dumbest shit I've heard. I can't see that being used by anyone remotely serious somewhere other than an internet forum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism

Please brother, don't jump to simpleton conclusions.

 

[ALC]

There's also a book for identifying wood so yeah.

 

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There's also a book for identifying wood so yeah.

Point is it's a real term

 

[ALC]

I'm not saying it's not, just that I find it ridiculous. It sounds derogatory to science.

 

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I'm not saying it's not, just that I find it ridiculous. It sounds derogatory to science.

lol! how very blasphemous!

 

[DelpieroForLife]

But if there is a why, there is certainly basis for a discussion of intelligent design. If there is a why, then we are purposefully created by something. And my question stands, what gives people the impression that there is a "why". Just reading the news for 30 minutes gives you an idea of how chaotic and random this place is. There, no mathematics, no higher philosophy or anything, simple observation.
I wonder if theists will write that off too as scientism, since it's an empirical way of viewing things?

Imagine if the valid answer was as Stephen Hawking would tell you "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing", then the answer to the "WHY?" here is simply because of gravity.

And as much as you would think it is unlikely you can't 100% deny the possibility of intelligence Design, in fact no one can so far.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

God created us to worship him. He didn't need to do it, but he did.

 

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Imagine if the valid answer was as Stephen Hawking would tell you "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing", then the answer to the "WHY?" here is simply because of gravity.

And as much as you would think it is unlikely you can't 100% deny the possibility of intelligence Design, in fact no one can so far.

Gravity is still a theory. Look up cause and affect.

 

[ALC]

No it's not. It's a law.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Just because you can't understand the whole world, all events, doesn't mean there is a purpose.

Minor editing here was needed.

 

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That's right keep laughing my friend

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Fair enough. But you want to use scientism to prove something that cannot be proved through scientism. You've already set yourself up to fail. God, for the theist, created time and space, and he is hence by nature, outside the realms of time and space. So if you want evidence in time and space of a "God particle" or whatever, you will never find it. The proof is in the signs of the world around us and in our hearts.

If you read stories of past prophets, many of their people disbelieved because they'd simply reply "yeah well if you're not lying then show us God before our eyes" which really is not that different to what modern day scientists are asking for "Show us evidence". But in reality this is the test, believing in the unseen because there is a lot of empirical evidence for the unseen, one of which is the meticulous balance in the universe.

How did you prove it to yourself? Or at least reached the point of 100% believing it is true?

 

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Minor editing here was needed.

Your editing is incorrect.

Look at human beings, they are obviously completely different to all other living creatures in that they're concious and are constantly changing the world around us.

 

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How did you prove it to yourself? Or at least reached the point of 100% believing it is true?

TO believers, belief in God is self-evident. Our very existence is proof of His existence.