Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (17 Viewers)

[Djabrail]

Yeah Fred, leave us the oil and run back to the desert. Just think about the reward in the hereafter.

Well, Islam is like that, our Prophet Muhammad(as) gave everything he possessed to poor people, his companions did the same. Dont judge religion by people. If someone breaks the law it doesnt mean that law is bad.

 

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[Fred]

You're talking about sins now. But what about just not being poor. Do you get punished for living comfortably?

Of course not. It does put you in some disadvantage though. Because suffering in earth absolves you from some suffering in the hereafter. But intentionally making yourself suffer, or refusing to work, or anything like that is prohibited.

If its forced on you, like people in countries like Somalia or Burma, then thats a different story.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I don't remember your exact position, do you believe in evolution, ID or young-earth creationism?

I definitely do not believe in young earth and I'm not 100% sure where I stand on the whole evolution stance but I do not see why God and that have to be exclusive

 

[Djabrail]

You're talking about sins now. But what about just not being poor. Do you get punished for living comfortably?

yes, if its more than what your needs are.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

We can't. We're ordered to work in our lifetimes and try to make the best of ourselves and for our society. But in the case where you can't, like this kid, then the suffering he's had in the world absolves him from suffering in the hereafter.

No matter what he (let's say adult, not kid) does, like murders, he's good to go? Because that's the only thing that would make it fair. In fact, it would make it advantageous to him, and not you. Otherwise, if he lives by the same rules as you, there is no benefit to the suffering.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

So because God gave us free will he's responsible for our evil. So if your child becomes a mass murderer it's your fault?

If god granted us free will, and if we commit evil by our free will, then by the regression that you use so often to assert that god created us, I can argue that god is responsible for evil.

If my child becomes a mass murderer, then it is gods fault. He created him afterall. Everything happens because god wills it.

The point is no matter where science says we came from there will always be an unanswered origin point that will have to be answer supernaturally

Appealing to the supernatural is just intellectual laziness. "I can't think of an answer to this question. Therefore, god did it".

No because science can not accept something from nothing. So in the end there will always be something that had to create the something no matter what science finds

Cool. So there has to be another god that created this god. If you choose to dishonestly end this regression at your god, then you're committing a fallacy of special pleading.

 

[Trequartista]

I definitely do not believe in young earth and I'm not 100% sure where I stand on the whole evolution stance but I do not see why God and that have to be exclusive

I just wanted to know again your position on that matter, nothing more

 

[AndreaCristiano]

If god granted us free will, and if we commit evil by our free will, then by the regression that you use so often to assert that god created us, I can argue that god is responsible for evil.

If my child becomes a mass murderer, then it is gods fault. He created him afterall. Everything happens because god wills it.



Appealing to the supernatural is just intellectual laziness. "I can't think of an answer to this question. Therefore, god did it".



Cool. So there has to be another god that created this god. If you choose to dishonestly end this regression at your god, then you're committing a fallacy of special pleading.

So if your child becomes a murder it's his fault and not yours. Funny
Also the supernatural doesn't live or have to abide by the rules of the natural hence the word supernatural look it up. Also I have told you multiple times just because your grasp of reality is small and limited don't put God in those limits

 

[Fred]

No matter what he (let's say adult, not kid) does, like murders, he's good to go? Because that's the only thing that would make it fair. In fact, it would make it advantageous to him, and not you. Otherwise, if he lives by the same rules as you, there is no benefit to the suffering.

First of all there is no excuse for murder.

But lets take another example. If he steals, because he can't eat, its different than if i steal. Even in Sharia law, he would never have his hand cut off for stealing(to eat) if he was poor.

So there are some variations to the rules between people. Another example could be fasting. If you don't have food for Iftar(breaking your fast) and Suhoor (before you start fasting). You're not even supposed to fast.

Another example is eating pork/ consuming alcohol. If you're starving and have nothing else to eat, you're allowed to eat those things.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

I just wanted to know again your position on that matter, nothing more

It's all good

 

[AndreaCristiano]

First of all there is no excuse for murder.

But lets take another example. If he steals, because he can't eat, its different than if i steal. Even in Sharia law, he would never have his hand cut off for stealing(to eat) if he was poor.

So there are some variations to the rules between people. Another example could be fasting. If you don't have food for Iftar(breaking your fast) and Suhoor (before you start fasting). You're not even supposed to fast.

Another example is eating pork/ consuming alcohol. If you're starving and have nothing else to eat, you're allowed to eat those things.

This is a great example Fred

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

First of all there is no excuse for murder.

But lets take another example. If he steals, because he can't eat, its different than if i steal. Even in Sharia law, he would never have his hand cut off for stealing(to eat) if he was poor.

So there are some variations to the rules between people. Another example could be fasting. If you don't have food for Iftar(breaking your fast) and Suhoor (before you start fasting). You're not even supposed to fast.

Another example is eating pork/ consuming alcohol. If you're starving and have nothing else to eat, you're allowed to eat those things.

Yeah, but forget those laws. I'm not asking what he's exempt from, I still wanna know why God letting these people suffer is acceptable.

And if you're starving, drinking alco won't help

 

[Alen]

Question for the atheists here. If there is hell by any chance, do you think this guy will burn there or he'll go to paradise?

Only atheists can reply to this post. If a theist does it, then may 10000 curses fall over his head and may he eternally burn in hell.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

Yeah, but forget those laws. I'm not asking what he's exempt from, I still wanna know why God letting these people suffer is acceptable.

And if you're starving, drinking alco won't help

You have to understand the existence of a soul on here is our choice to come and test our selfs to be worthy to live with God eternally. The test is different for every soul and some souls are born into situations which man has wrought which are horrible and add to that earthly suffering

 

[Trequartista]

Alen

---------- Post added 21.07.2012 at 21:32 ----------

Question for the atheists here. If there is hell by any chance, do you think this guy will burn there or he'll go to paradise?

Only atheists can reply to this posts. If a theist does it, then may 10000 curses fall over his head and may he eternally burn in hell.

Hell

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Question for the atheists here. If there is hell by any chance, do you think this guy will burn there or he'll go to paradise?

Only atheists can reply to this posts. If a theist does it, then may 10000 curses fall over his head and may he eternally burn in hell.

If he is only good so he can go to heaven and not for the sake of it, then hell.

 

[Alen]

I say HELL too.

 

[AndreaCristiano]

If he is only good so he can go to heaven and not for the sake of it, then hell.

Thinking you know my motives shows your arrogance. I'm not good to get to heaven I'm good because loving my neighbor as myself is what should be done

 

[Fred]

Yeah, but forget those laws. I'm not asking what he's exempt from, I still wanna know why God letting these people suffer is acceptable.

And if you're starving, drinking alco won't help

We're all going to suffer. If you believe in the hereafter, suffering in the world is a lot better than suffering up there.

Of course human beings are selfish, irrational and worldly creatures, so if you ask me would I rather be suffering in Burma or Somalia instead of living a comfortable life, i'd most definitely say no.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Well yes because the reality is those things only exist on this planet because of human greed , avarice and selfishness. Those decisions are made with free will and the decisions to allow it to continue are others free will who look away

My state is currently facing a bad drought caused due to shortage of rainwater, and dead crops as a result of it. Humans didn't decide to make the reasons stop. It's a completely natural phenomena(or lack, thereof). Either god caused the reasons to stop, or didn't bother to make it rain again. Either way, god is responsible. Worse, he chooses not to end it and make it rain.