Do you believe in God (16 Viewers)

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

That's quite interesting. I have to admit that I didn't know all of that before now, and it does seem to be a fundimental shift in certain regards.

However, I would argue that while you are right that the religions differ, the God they worship is one and the same.

In the beginning there was Judaeism. They believed in God (strangely singular). They believed that God would send a saviour. Jews don't believe that Christ was that saviour, or anything else.

Christians believe that Jesus was that saviour, and shifted their theology based on his teachings. The church has further refined that over the past two millenia.

Several centuries AD, a bloke called Muhammed came and expressed his philosophies about God, claiming them devinely inspired, and so the theology of Islam was founded. Islamics believe that Jesus was a prophet, and presumably that a saviour is still to come (or maybe they dropped that idea, I don't know.

Three religions, one God. IMHO.


You're welcome. Enjoy the holidays!

I think our own religion also deturmines whether we think the Christian, Jewish, Muslim God is the same or different.

We believe there was Jesus PBUH, and there were Jews. We believe that Before Jesus, the teachings of the Jews was correct and follwing that was the correct path. After the Jews stopped following their holy books and Jesus was sent to show them God's way again, the Jews didn't believe him so at this moment, following Jesus PBUHwas the right way. Then When Jesus's level was raised to God/son of God, and the Bible got changed a lot to suit the men in Power, and the weak translations and loss of some verses...etc. then the Last Prophet, Mohammed PBUH, came and with him the Qur'an as the Final messege to mindkind. since it's the Final message, the Qur'an will be protected and unchanged till the day of Judgement. (it's been Over 1400 years now and there are no two Qur'ans not Identical)

So We Do Belive that they're all the same God.

but i think Christians dont believe in Allah (arabic for :"God" ) because they believe that Mohammed PBUH came up with Islam on his own and the qur'an is somehow written by him.

...................
As for the manner In which Gray described God's relationship with Humans in Islam, i think he pretty much has it right.
I dont see why should god love everyone including the sinners who dont believe in him?!?! there are people who curse God, should they be loved too??
Christian's beleive that God took a Human's form in Jesus Christ has sadly degraded God to a fatherly (human-like) figure who loves his children no matter what.
If God loves everyone, than does this mean that Hell is going to be empty??!?!? because a father who loves his Children would never burn his own sun!!
If There really is going to be people in Hell, then i think that this whole 'love' issue makes no sense.

In Islam, if you work hardest, try to do great deeds and try not to commit sins, then, by God's Merci, he'll most likely put you in heaven (though no body knows.... no human can EARN his right to a place so great like heaven if he did good deed for a million years! so it's God mercy in the end that will place the good ones in heaven).... If you dont believe in God and you're a terrible sinner, then what do you have to show for on the day of judgement?! It's up to God.
but we all have the comfort of knowing that God is JUST. he will not leave any sin or any good deed unacounted for.

The Grace is between each person and God. that's where all the grace is. If you're a terrible person, then why should there be any grace!?

please excuse me, i really really dont mean to offend you Gray

 

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[sallyinzaghi]

To put it simply, how muslims are different from christians and Jews is because we believe Muhammad was the last prophet, with last message, Islam. So, Islam, being the latest religion, should be followed.

About Gods relationship with humans- God is Most Merciful, Most Beneficial, but also MOST JUST. Please think of this phrase carefully and you'll see its meaning.

God created everyone pure and innocent- it is they who chose what they become to be. If someone is evil, and then repent, Allah still forgives. But if that someone STILL refuses to do good, then.. thats a different story.

Man, this reminds me of the subject tawheed. BTW gray, I think you're the most intelligent when it comes to Christianity as I've asked many Christians certain questions and they failed to answer me, but you didn't

mikhail, covering our heads is compulsory. I do it. Put it this way- if you have one million bucks, would you put it in a transparent bag? Same with a woman's body- its a treasure, and we only reserve it for the best- our husbands

why islam deals with misconceptions is because certain countries always confuse islam with customs- its two different things.

*edited - wrong grammar

 

[Lilianna]

++ [ originally posted by Loppan ] ++
Do you believe in God?

Not really. I do belive that there is something that might control things like destiny but if that is God, I don't know.

and where at you pray at??

 

[Fred]

++ [ originally posted by Lilianna ] ++
like what....?????? :devil:

:down:

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++
You're losing this one Gary

I fail to see how so...

"I can assure most of you that Judaism, Christianity and Islam is very closely related" was merely a statement

++ [ originally posted by ebraheej ] ++

And as for Father???? How can he be our father, he is our god!!! A god is closer than a father, and more loving.

hmm...:undecide:

That sounds contradictory to me... you sound like you distanced God by saying that he can't be our father, then u go on to say that God is more loving and caring.

We call God "Father" because he is the Creator of all, above all, and yet concerned about all that he has made.

++ [ originally posted by ebraheej ] ++
And about the hate part...... I am not sure, but I think that if he hates, it would be really bad people I mean really bad.

When did I ever mention the word hate?

++ [ originally posted by ebraheej ] ++
And you shouldnt get free salvation you must earn it yourself, you dont get paid for doing nothing.

That's what i'm saying the difference is...

grace

++ [ originally posted by ebraheej ] ++
If you have questions about islam please ask and dont interpret it the way you think is right.

I said in my first post:

since I'd like to know more about Islam, I'll try to cite what I know:

I acknowledged that I didn't know that much about Islam, and I tried to state what i knew. From Majed's comments, it sounds like I wasn't too far from the truth with what I said. Please feel free to correct any of my misconceptions, i've still got a lot to learn

P.S. Do you think Allah hates me?

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++

Then When Jesus's level was raised to God/son of God, and the Bible got changed a lot to suit the men in Power, and the weak translations and loss of some verses...etc. then the Last Prophet, Mohammed PBUH, came and with him the Qur'an as the Final messege to mindkind. since it's the Final message, the Qur'an will be protected and unchanged till the day of Judgement. (it's been Over 1400 years now and there are no two Qur'ans not Identical)

Thanks for the explanation I'm just wondering, where did the theory that there were weak translations and changing of the Bible, and loss of verses come from? And how can it be known that the Quran is the final message, unchanged and protected?

Also, the original Greek and Hebrew versions of the Bible remain unchanged and intact, but the multilingual translations were made...obviously...for people who don't know Greek and Hebrew!

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
As for the manner In which Gray described God's relationship with Humans in Islam, i think he pretty much has it right.
I dont see why should god love everyone including the sinners who dont believe in him?!?! there are people who curse God, should they be loved too??

They are loved in the same way that a father loves his child, even when the child says "I hate you!"

Look at the parable of the lost son, which describes the character of God.

Luke 15:

Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.

"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.' So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'

"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.

 

[ebraheej]

Oh gray sorry man I didnt get the part about not knowing.... Sorry man.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
In Islam, if you work hardest, try to do great deeds and try not to commit sins, then, by God's Merci, he'll most likely put you in heaven (though no body knows.... no human can EARN his right to a place so great like heaven if he did good deed for a million years! so it's God mercy in the end that will place the good ones in heaven).... If you dont believe in God and you're a terrible sinner, then what do you have to show for on the day of judgement?! It's up to God. But we all have the comfort of knowing that God is JUST. he will not leave any sin or any good deed unacounted for.

I don't believe that humans can earn redemption through good deeds, because we're all sinners, and God's standard is perfection. To cut the story short, someone needed to pay for all these sins. God sacrificed Jesus, because he was perfect. So God fulfilled his characteristics or justice and love in the same act

I don't think that we can do enough good deeds to outweigh the bad. How many times must a person kill to be considered a murderer? How many times must a person steal to be called a thief? Just once, right? It's the same with sin.

Okay, just say I'm making scrambled eggs for you. The first eleven eggs are fine, but one of them is green, smelly and rotten. I throw it in anyway, because i need all the eggs i can. Would you eat my scrambled eggs? No, of course not...because that one bad egg outweighs the goodness of all the good ones. Again, so it is with sin.

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
The Grace is between each person and God. that's where all the grace is. If you're a terrible person, then why should there be any grace!?

Because that's what grace is, by definition! An undeserved gift of forgiveness that God gave through his love for us.

Now a gift isn't a gift unless it's received, right? If I offer you a present, and hold it out, but you ignore me and don't take the present... the giving of the gift hasn't been completed.

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
please excuse me, i really really dont mean to offend you Gray

I'm not offended at all. Nothing that you said was offensive, and even if it was, i'm waaay past the point of getting offended by these kind of statements

 

[ebraheej]

a good deed is considered as ten while a bad deed is considered as one, thats in Is,lam.

 

[Zizou]

Sally - please explain why you guys have to be so covered up. If you guys have to cover up than I guess it's useles for you girls to diet cos no one can see your bodies under all those clothes.

Anna - Care to share wih us what happened to you?

There's this song I like which contains the following lyrics...sometimes when I feel helpless, angry and down I find them quite true:

Strangled my hope and made me pray
to a God I've never seen but who I betray
to the people who live the after life
in a place I'll never be till I'm crucified.

 

[gray]

so if all those numbers add up, and the equivalences dictate that you've got 500 good deeds and 501 bad deeds altogether... you go to hell?

 

[Zizou]

Ebraheej who came up with the points? Sounds like Galliani was in charge of this 'competition'

 

[ebraheej]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
so if all those numbers add up, and the equivalences dictate that you've got 500 good deeds and 501 bad deeds altogether... you go to hell?

No God is merciful..... I think you will pass

 

[ebraheej]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Ebraheej who came up with the points? Sounds like Galliani was in charge of this 'competition'

It was mentioned by the prophet , so it will be easier for humans to go to heaven.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by ebraheej ] ++

No God is merciful..... I think you will pass

So at which point will you not pass? Is there a cut-off mark involving a subraction of good from bad? I hope I don't sound like i'm mocking, it's an honest question

 

[Zizou]

The point system sounds like something a human being would come up with not a God I'm sure God has better ways of judging a person. Cos if it's like you said it, for example terrorists who were involved in September 11th, they might have had a good life and earning lots of 10s and then did that terrorist attack on the twin towers, but only received 1 point against? That doesn`t make sense now does it?

 

[ebraheej]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
The point system sounds like something a human being would come up with not a God I'm sure God has better ways of judging a person. Cos if it's like you said it, for example terrorists who were involved in September 11th, they might have had a good life and earning lots of 10s and then did that terrorist attack on the twin towers, but only received 1 point against? That doesn`t make sense now does it?

There is an answer for everything man...dont worry.
Thats why there is a thing called al kabaaer, which means the big bad deads. These deeds are the ones that will not be forgived until someones seeks honest redemption.....( this includes, killing, raping, etc....)
does it make any sense.....

 

[ebraheej]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


So at which point will you not pass? Is there a cut-off mark involving a subraction of good from bad? I hope I don't sound like i'm mocking, it's an honest question

Not at all man ask any questions you want

Well... It depends on the person who is judged, for example if you oftenly read the quran, even thogh you got good deeds from it you could get more when you are in need. Hence being between heaven and hell.

and your welcomed to ask any question that crosses your mind.

 

[gray]

so if the 11/09 attackers honestly seeked redemption the split-second before they died... what would happen?

what do you mean by "between heaven and hell"?

 

[*aca*]

I apologoze, i did not read ALL of the posts here, but there are few things i have to say.

I noticed many, many posts asuming many things about God. None, not even one of those statements can be empiricaly proven, therefore they are a great subject for philosophers, sociologists, psychologists, theologists and so on. Great subject, but not matter of fact.

God exist only if you chose to believe he/she exist.

...and also, if anyone, even God him/herself told me that i have to sacrafice my son in his/hers name (or whatever reason it may be) - i know what my answer would be.