Imagine a Juventus farewell video like this for Ronaldo when he retires here in 2025.
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Usually if i have an opinion, i atleast try to explain why i think that by either using just a common sense or bringing up some kind of explanation based on science, facts or anything else. If somebody uses a word talent and doesn't know what it means, why on earth you need to use it?
That's the point, nothing else and you could say that Neymar is 10x better player than Ronaldo is and say it's based on your opinion, it will be fine but don't say it's based on their "talent" because it's wrong.
That's the point, nothing else and you could say that Neymar is 10x better player than Ronaldo is and say it's based on your opinion, it will be fine but don't say it's based on their "talent" because it's wrong.
Ronaldo is who he is mainly because his work ethic. Both neymar and ronaldo and a lot more are very close in talent, but the difference maker at this stage is how much you put into it.
Ronaldo discovered in what he was good, and put extreme work into perfecting that, the others do not. Thats all theres to it.
Ronaldo discovered in what he was good, and put extreme work into perfecting that, the others do not. Thats all theres to it.
Could you please show me the science and the facts that say Neymar had less talent at 17-20 than Ronaldo? Would also appreciate those genetic analyzes. There isn't one accepted definition for talent, even the academics struggle to have one exact definition so I would advise you to write an academic paper if you do. You are trying to present your views as facts when in fact they are simply subjective views and then get offended when someone doesn't agree with those views.
Also we are fans on a football site talking about football. I don't think this site requires the use of good scientific practices.
Also we are fans on a football site talking about football. I don't think this site requires the use of good scientific practices.
Let me ask something: How you can even seperate work ethic and "talent", because they go hand by hand. MJ, Dwayne Johnson, Rafa Nadal etc. they just had that work ethic, that mind set that seperated them from the rest and they were "talented" at having that mindset, because that itself is a "talent". You could say Neymar is somewhat equal by having ball on his feet, but is he really because results on the pitch are pretty much saying differently. Then again, you could rely on the fact that he doesn't have the mindset aspect of the "talent", but then again, does it even matter?
Usain Bolt is the fastest man alive or is he? He got the results, therefore he is the most "talented" even how we can know, that there wasn't a guy with better genetics who just didn't like running or didn't have the opportunity to try his limits? Same goes with this, you really cannot say somebody is equal to other on anything, if their results have such a big difference on the pitch. You could keep going and going about they would be, but how you'd know as you said, "they're very close in talent" even the reality is, that all what matters is the results and there's nothing close in that.
Usain Bolt is the fastest man alive or is he? He got the results, therefore he is the most "talented" even how we can know, that there wasn't a guy with better genetics who just didn't like running or didn't have the opportunity to try his limits? Same goes with this, you really cannot say somebody is equal to other on anything, if their results have such a big difference on the pitch. You could keep going and going about they would be, but how you'd know as you said, "they're very close in talent" even the reality is, that all what matters is the results and there's nothing close in that.
No, it was you who claimed that Neymar was equal in "talent" compared to Ronaldo or even more "talented" between 17-20. Since you think so, you must base it on something, which again is that word called "talent". If it's based on talent, you could go ahead and bring your personal "talent" analysis from their 3-6 and 7-11 old footballing careers, so we would have more accurate picture of what they were as a kids. Then when you have done it, then we should go on and calculate their physical age compared to their actual age, to find how much they benefit from being physically more advanced than their counterparts and so on. If Neymar was aheadn between 3-6, then Ronaldo was ahead between 7-11 and Neymar was equal or ahead between 17-20 and from like 25-> Ronaldo is far ahead, how we determine who is more talented?
Results, that's it.
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There's definitely some connection in our genes to get addicted on drugs for example. There's some sort of stimulation on those drugs, that affect on ur brain differently than it does for the other people on so on. So if some of the people are more "vulnerable" of falling into that, is it too hard to believe that some of the people might be addicted more of taking the pictures over the pools while others are training?
Results, that's it.
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There's definitely some connection in our genes to get addicted on drugs for example. There's some sort of stimulation on those drugs, that affect on ur brain differently than it does for the other people on so on. So if some of the people are more "vulnerable" of falling into that, is it too hard to believe that some of the people might be addicted more of taking the pictures over the pools while others are training?
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This is the post that got you riled up.
I've never claimed that Neymar is more talented. Nor have I made any claims about their ability at ages 3-6 and 7-11. How could I as I've not seen either? I know this is all just some silly tactic to derail the discussion and I'm not going to participate in that weird little game of yours.
As I've already said you are free to define and rate their talent anyway you want. Makes no difference to me. I watched both players play when they were young and there was no big difference in their football ability at that time imo. I'm actually quite perplexed on what is the goal of this frankly quite odd exercise.
I've never claimed that Neymar is more talented. Nor have I made any claims about their ability at ages 3-6 and 7-11. How could I as I've not seen either? I know this is all just some silly tactic to derail the discussion and I'm not going to participate in that weird little game of yours.
As I've already said you are free to define and rate their talent anyway you want. Makes no difference to me. I watched both players play when they were young and there was no big difference in their football ability at that time imo. I'm actually quite perplexed on what is the goal of this frankly quite odd exercise.
To put it simple, all those mentioned are talented as they can be, but the difference is how much you nurture that talent. To me, having talent is not the same as work ethic. You can have great work ethic but that doesnt mean you are excepcional. Nedved once said that he was nothing out of the ordinary, but that he had discipline and work ethic, and in the end it gave him the result.
Now, if you apply that same work ethic to someone naturally talented, then you get the CR7s of the world. Thats what i mean,
But well ronaldo is case of extreme work ethic..
Now, if you apply that same work ethic to someone naturally talented, then you get the CR7s of the world. Thats what i mean,
But well ronaldo is case of extreme work ethic..
Nedved can say whatever he want, but he definitely had the genetics for the sport of football. He might not have been great at playing piano as much he tried, but he had the genetics to be a professional football player. Another scenario before he was born is that alongside with Eminem and they were on a line, then somebody handed a piece of paper to each of them, in Nedved's paper it said "you will have great work ehtic for whatever you do in your life" and in other piece of paper it said to Eminem that "you will be one of the greatest musicial artists of all time" and they slowly walked into different directions and now ~50 years later it happened. I'd say more logical scenario is that when they were born with certain genetics, other just had way better genetics for sports meanwhile other had way better genetics for music.
That's basically Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences. I'm not sure how strong the evidence is in its favor, but it's one theory. These are terribly complex questions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences
Because there's a reason these guys ended up being GOAT's in their respective sports, especially in football which is the most universally played sport on earth. If you have some margin sports, there's a reason someone else might sneak up the spotlight than the most "talented" one, but when we're talking about football, with all the players playing around or who had played before, there's absolutely no way a GOAT can be less talented than a guy, who isn't even considered as a top 20 of all time and most likely, won't be. There's so many people who tried, so many people who are trying and it's the most applied profession in the world by far which means, most competitive thing to "apply" and yet, some of the people saying that Ronaldo isn't the most talented because he has such a good work ethic. Im sure there's millions of players who are doing whatever they can to accomplish what Ronaldo did, yet nobody can get the results even with the same training regimes, neither would Neymar because A. He isn't that good of an athlete, B. He's way more injury prone and C. he won't have the same mindset so even if he had more "talent" by having ball on his feet than Ronaldo did, it doesn't make him more or equally "talented".
People claim that Messi is way more "talented" than Ronaldo is, which is another thing which is funny. If someone can explain how he is more talented, i'd like to know. I can just say that you could look at the height, athleticism, physicality etc. to have a glue who again, is a better athlete. If we weren't talking about sports, then being a better athlete wouldn't matter. Messi might have naturally better ball control and such, but since game ain't all about that, it just means that he isn't more "talented" but maybe one part of the game. If football was all about crossing and heading the ball in, Messi wouldn't even be considered a player but since it ain't all about that, it doesn't matter. We are talking about the most played sports on earth, with certain physical demands, with certain skill set and so on and if you combine all of that, you get the best player out there and for the past 10-15 years it has been Ronaldo and Messi, as they're the most "talented" players of all time and it's not even a question and bringing Neymar's name there is just an insult.
People claim that Messi is way more "talented" than Ronaldo is, which is another thing which is funny. If someone can explain how he is more talented, i'd like to know. I can just say that you could look at the height, athleticism, physicality etc. to have a glue who again, is a better athlete. If we weren't talking about sports, then being a better athlete wouldn't matter. Messi might have naturally better ball control and such, but since game ain't all about that, it just means that he isn't more "talented" but maybe one part of the game. If football was all about crossing and heading the ball in, Messi wouldn't even be considered a player but since it ain't all about that, it doesn't matter. We are talking about the most played sports on earth, with certain physical demands, with certain skill set and so on and if you combine all of that, you get the best player out there and for the past 10-15 years it has been Ronaldo and Messi, as they're the most "talented" players of all time and it's not even a question and bringing Neymar's name there is just an insult.
I think the talent that people usually refer to in football means a natural ability, not so much the talent to work and train harder than everyone else. In that sense, being injury prone and having a weaker mindset has nothing to do with it. Also attitude/mindset are not wholly genetic traits but are influenced by environmental factors.
I don't think it's that incomprehensible why people would think Neymar has more natural talent than Ronaldo.
I don't think it's that incomprehensible why people would think Neymar has more natural talent than Ronaldo.