Crisis, what crisis? (1 Viewer)

dpforever

Prediction Game Champ 2003 & 2005
Jan 12, 2002
3,794
#1
For many, the 2-0 Juve defeat at the hands of Lazio was hard to swallow. It was the 3rd consecutive defeat in a row. Yes, consecutive defeat and not consecutive win! Hard to believe coming from the (usually consistent) Italian champions. But are Juve really in a crisis? Are they falling apart? Afterall, Juve have never been defeated 3 times consecutively for the past twelve years.


The Serie A defeats came in the hands of Inter and Lazio, two respectable and highly decent teams in the Italian league. Sandwiched between the two was another defeat in this bleak week for Juve fans albeit in a less important Champions League match against Galatasaray, as the team has already qualified to the next stage anyway.


What upsets the fans probably more than the defeats themselves is the poor performance which was on display during those defeats. Lippi indicated that against Lazio he wanted to substitute the whole team after the disastrous first half. We can spend all day and night searching for a scapegoat for those defeats. Was it Lippi’s choices? Was it Del Piero’s bad comeback? Was it Di Vaio’s late bad finishing? Was it Camoranesi’s ineffectiveness? Was it the Delle Alpi ballboys? And more importantly, was it the defense’s fault?


Lippi has reacted wonderfuly throughout those defeats as he rallied behind his men and protected them from the press’ harsh criticism. The players also seem determined and confident to overturn the setbacks as implied from Thuram and Ferrara’s post-match comments, two of the most experienced squad players.


But if we examine the situation more closely, we find ourselves in third place, four points behind co-leaders Milan and Roma, after 12 rounds. However, compared to the last season, we have collected the exact number points – 26 – from the first 12 matches. Moreover, at this stage we are a full 8 points better-off than the 2001-02 winning season.


Juve are known for their sluggish start to the season only for them to slowly but confidently assault the Scudetto challengers. As for the current four point gap, Lippi have always relished the ‘catch-up’ role and preferred it to the ‘front-runner’ one as experienced during the 2002 and 2003 seasons. We have seen Juve in the past a full seven and nine points off the pace, only for them to keep up a run of positive results and end up winning the Scudetto – head and shoulders above the rest. Milan and Roma have been warned.


Therefore, I believe Lippi and the players when they say that there is no crisis. Before those matches we were unbeatable and it just happened that the defeats came consecutively. I'm sure that if the defeats were seperated and integrated with the other 15 matches no one would be talking of a slump or crisis. Wake up, there are more than 20 matches left in Serie A, 60 points to be won !!
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,538
#2
I hope you're right.

It's just that our record against the top Serie A teams is nothing to be proud of, and some people are just assuming that eventually Roma and Milan will lose a bunch of matches. If we have to depend on the failures of others to acheive our own success, then that is a recipe of desperation and disaster.

I actually feel sorry for Buffon. It seems that he is in a constant 2-on-1 situation whenever the opposition is on attack.
 

mate

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2002
1,685
#3
I don't know if we can call it crisis or not, maybe is just a down period.
I think the disappointment is so strong around cause till few more than a week ago we looked a goal machine, a perfect team, the best Juve ever... so nobody could expect such a drop of results.
We never started so well in past 20 years, so a small down is normal cause we could not keep on winning all the matchs all season long, the bad thing is that the "change" was so big. It is umbelivable that an almost unbrakable team change so quikly :groan: Looks something of the machine was broken and so nothing work anymore...
 
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dpforever

dpforever

Prediction Game Champ 2003 & 2005
Jan 12, 2002
3,794
#4
++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
It's just that our record against the top Serie A teams is nothing to be proud of

That's not a secret .. Juve have always struggled against those teams - bar Inter - in the past and still won the Scudetto .. Milan suffered to get a win against Empoli, something I just don't think would happen to Juve .. and taking a look at the Serie A 18 teams there are more Empolis than Romas out there for Juve to beat ..


Believe me 4 points are not that much for Juve to recover in Serie A, we've been there and done that before and it wasn't too far away .. check the records only two seasons back ..
 

Ivy

Senior Member
Jul 16, 2003
1,604
#6
++ [ originally posted by dpforever ] ++
I'm sure that if the defeats were seperated and integrated with the other 15 matches no one would be talking of a slump or crisis. Wake up, there are more than 20 matches left in Serie A, 60 points to be won !!
yeah! that's right!

I actually feel sorry for Buffon. It seems that he is in a constant 2-on-1 situation whenever the opposition is on attack.
yeah also! Sometimes the defence really wants to make me punch the screen :wallbang: but they are no where in sight....so i have nothing to punch!
 

Hydde

Duke NUKEM
Mar 6, 2003
36,737
#9
I really think that this is a down period..... but yes there is a problem in the dfeence.. that must be fixed. My real concern is MOntero, he is the most out of form defender, and he is doing TOO MANY dangerous fouls near the area.

Anyways.. lets see... maybe this olimpiakos game will boost our team in the right path.
 

Gandalf

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2003
2,038
#10
As I see it, it's not a crisis.. It's a down period resulted from so many factors that can be avoided.. one of the major factors are the team spirit and psycological situation.. if juve could concentrate on that and beleive that they can give more than what they gave in the last 3 matches.. I'm sure we'll get back in the track.. the winning track that is..
 

A_LAcki

Senior Member
Dec 23, 2002
3,554
#11
Defenetly! Montero is a real problem! I have never seen him playing that bad! I don't think that a January transfer would help us!
IMO it was sure that once, our strikers will loose something of their finishingpower, we will slip because of our bad defence!
My solution--------->Put Thuram in the middle! He could help us their!

But dpforever! Bigger up for you! A great post and I am very positive, after I read that!
But I also have to say that we have to change something!
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
#12
Lets just start by asking you guys 1 question?
Why is there mention of the word "crisis" ?
We all know there is a drop in form in december. And we all know what slow starters Juve are. The only difference this year is, we sped of the line and flew at the start, well, if anything i wudve ben worried if dint have a dip in form, bcoz afterall, this is when we're used to it. And its after this lil bit in the season we recover to find our strength once again. Well, its not all talk, we are after all scudetto holders from two previous seasons. So why is there mention of the word "crisis"? There is no doubt, our defense is struggling and is pitiful. But Juve are not about defense, midfield and attack. Juve are about being 1 team. And its that mental strength that will keep together the defense, midfield and attack. All the people here, who talk of crisis, i have to ask yall.....how long have yall been following Juve? becoz when you talk of crisis after losing 3 games feeling this team wont recover, you dont seem to know much, simply becoz this is Juve. They are a team that can win at will. So i request yall to give all this talk a break. The season has only just begun. We've negotiated our weakest part of the season fabulously. And if nething we've made our job easier for the latter half of the season. So i suggest everyone talking crisis to brace themselves, becoz it is in this latter half of the season, you will see Juve come out and play. And make yall eat your words.
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,678
#13
++ [ originally posted by dpforever ] ++

What upsets the fans probably more than the defeats themselves is the poor performance which was on display during those defeats. Lippi indicated that against Lazio he wanted to substitute the whole team after the disastrous first half. We can spend all day and night searching for a scapegoat for those defeats. Was it Lippi’s choices? Was it Del Piero’s bad comeback? Was it Di Vaio’s late bad finishing? Was it Camoranesi’s ineffectiveness? Was it the Delle Alpi ballboys? And more importantly, was it the defense’s fault?
all of the above :D jk
 

Trezeguet_FC

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2003
1,888
#14
Hey Check this article out by Roberto Gotta regarding Juventus' current form. Not that bad, but interesting...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=285579&cc=5739

Crisis club Juventus?

Roberto Gotta

Crisis? Which crisis? In the beautiful world of Italian football, where the pressure from - among others - TV talk shows rooted in the principle of 'who shouts the loudest is right', means that losing two games in a row constitutes a 'crisi'.

Paolo Montero hauls down Lazio goalscorer Bernardo Corradi at Stadio Olimpico (Photo/GettyImages)

So send in the cavalry - Juventus are, well, in a crisis.


If you count the midweek loss to Galatasaray in the Champions League, which did not do Juve any harm in the standings but still counts as zero points and a lot of missed goal opportunities, the Bianconeri have now lost three in a row overall and have not grabbed maximum points for a shocking - ready for it? - 13 days, since their win at Siena in the Italian Cup with what amounted to a reserve side.

A poor Saturday showing in Rome, where a Lazio itself on the verge of a crisis - who isn't, given that it takes very little to step into Crisisland? - made little work of defeating Marcello Lippi's side 2-0, means Juventus are now four points behind Milan and Roma.

A laughable gap, really, as Inter have shown, closing in to within a point of the Turin side barely seven days after being apparently out of contention. It takes little to gain and lose points and, with a bit of common sense, there would not be TV debates between commentators with furrowed brows arguing where it all went wrong.

Granted, those two Serie A defeats in a row may not have been the start of a decline or a 'crisis', but Juventus obviously do not look as brilliant and unstoppable as they were in September or in October. Some may mention that they also looked great in August, but this would again mean falling into the trap of believing that the form any team shows while strolling through the preseason friendlies, albeit competitive ones, is an indicator of how the campaign will go.

A few weeks ago I attended Juventus' game in Modena and despite their 2-0 that evening they looked strangely vulnerable, far from perfect. That they still came out on top is due to having smart, talented players, the very reason Juventus and their ilk are constantly at or near the top while others are forever struggling against relegation.

Before and after goals scored by Nedved and Tacchinardi, Juventus had looked shaky in defence against one of the least powerful Serie A sides, and this is exactly one of their problems right now, along with diminishing returns from their midfielders and the struggles of Alessandro Del Piero to find his form after his September injury.

They have conceded 14 goals in the Serie A already, and the central pairing of Montero and newcomer Legrottaglie has been troubled both by quick forwards, like Inter's Obafemi Martins and Lazio's bustling Corradi, whose wonderful headed goal on Saturday was as much due to his power and timing as Legrottaglie's hesitation in throwing himself at Fiore's right-wing cross.

Juve's next Serie A match is a tricky one at home to Parma, one of the League's better footballing sides, and it wll be very interesting to see what Lippi will do. Despite Juventus' rigidly planned turnover-system, his insistence on playing Del Piero and sticking to Appiah in midfield, despite the Ghanaian's clear loss of form, has raised objections in some quarters and has caused the Edgar Davids issue to resurface again.

Long at odds with the Turin clubs' management ('I wouldn't sit down for a coffee with them,' was last year's cliche for the Dutch midfielder), Davids has refused to sign a new contract and has been known to be unhappy: his deal expires after this season and it is well known that Fabio Capello would love to have him in his Roma side.

Lippi has only given him some run-outs in the Champions League but Davids is by no means an automatic first choice in the Serie A. His hard-running and tackling in the middle of the park could do something for Juve now while Appiah gets a rest, the reasoning goes, and it could also help provide cover for the back four.

Fear not for Juve, though, they are perfectly capable of pulling through. They also lost two consecutive Serie A matches last year, in early December, then went on to dominate the campaign, but the big difference from twelve months ago is that Milan and Roma are showing no signs of letting up, and Milan's success in particular has created a sort of bizarre contrast with Juventus. (For those who wonder where that leaves Roma, come back on these pages next week).

The perception of the two sides for the past year had been clear-cut: Juve the physically imposing, ruthless, impenetrable team who would get results but fail to win many aesthetic awards for their style, despite their abundance of world-class players; Milan, more pleasing to the eye, cleverly passing the ball, sprinkling their side with flair, attacking players like Inzaghi, Shevcenko, Kaka, Rui Costa, the now-departed Rivaldo, Seedorf, but sometimes failing to finish and to impose their will over weaker opponents.

Now, without any apparent change in personnel and to each team's footballing philosophy, Milan have developed a ruthless streak while Juventus have been profligate, leaking goals and wasting opportunities, a complete turnaround.


Davids: Off to Roma? (AlexLivesey/GettyImages)


That Milan have become the masters of 1-0 wins (seven of them already this season) is a testament to their defence, which has allowed only four goals - one of them Di Vaio's wonder strike in the 1-1 home draw with Juventus - in 12 Serie A matches. Meanwhile Inzaghi's injury problems have not been as damaging as expected because Shevcenko has kept his one-goal-a-game average and Kaka has popped up when needed, even during an uninspiring spell for him - witness his 30 yard, match-winning strike at Empoli on Saturday.

Now Milan head off to Japan for Sunday's Intercontinental Cup showdown with South America champions Boca Juniors, coached by one-time Roma manager Carlos Bianchi. Milan's top brass have been quick to remind everyone that a win there would give the Rossoneri a world-record 16th major international trophy, one more than Real Madrid and Independiente, and this makes the game in Yokohama even more significant.

To stress its importance, Milan have planned the trip to Japan in every detail, even going as far as splitting the squad in two: some players (Maldini, Nesta, Cafu, Gattuso, Pancaro, Pirlo, Shevcenko) left on Monday, the others will join them after the meaningless (for Milan) Champions League match against Celta Vigo.

A few years back, in the age of over-inflated squads when talents like Patrick Vieira could be lost among dozens of others, the only reason for splitting a travelling party would be that not even a wide-body 777 could accomodate all the players.

Now it is simply a matter of getting the more important players - at least one on defence, midfield and attack - to get over jet lag as soon as possible, with the farm hands arriving on Thursday. Real Madrid and Independiente, watch out.
 

Ivy

Senior Member
Jul 16, 2003
1,604
#15
++ [ originally posted by baggio ] ++
All the people here, who talk of crisis, i have to ask yall.....how long have yall been following Juve?
You should ask them how far they see? Not how long they've followed Juve. If their sights are only within a short range.... 3 matches will be alot. Some people can be long term Juve followers but still... .... they can't seam to see things in a larger prespective.


And dude.... do you know i'm like a 1 and a half year old Juve fan??? you do right?? :LOL:



So i suggest everyone talking crisis to brace themselves, becoz it is in this latter half of the season, you will see Juve come out and play. And make yall eat your words.
This is the kind of attitude this forum needs a bit more off :thumb:
 

Gandalf

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2003
2,038
#17
ffeww... That was a long article..

but as I read, I was getting the feeling that the writer forgot what he's talking about..
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#18
++ [ originally posted by Gandalf ] ++
ffeww... That was a long article..

but as I read, I was getting the feeling that the writer forgot what he's talking about..
my thoughts exactly.. :)
 

IceBlu

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2003
1,364
#20
++ [ originally posted by Gandalf ] ++
ffeww... That was a long article..

but as I read, I was getting the feeling that the writer forgot what he's talking about..

haha yeah exactly :D

I don't understand what he is trying to get at ..
 

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