Copa America 2011 - General Thread (15 Viewers)

[Nedvěd]

Brilliant goal from Aguero. How the fuck Lavezzi starts ahead of him and Di Maria?

Banega is so

 

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[Nedvěd]

How the fuck G.Milito is picked ahead of Walter Samuel? Samuel is easily the best South American defender yet he is not in the squad.

 

[Red]

Great game from Bolivia.

Their captain was near perfect at CB and their CF, though he missed one-on-one, did a good job of holding the ball up and stopping Argentina building momentum.

Argentina looked pretty clueless, especially once Bolivia managed to close to gap between defence and midfield to keep Messi quiet.

Cambiasso tried to do it, but they need a box-to-box runner in midfield to stretch the game and open up space. Playing with three pretty static midfielders and without attacking fullbacks makes it relatively easy to a team to make the game very compact and deprive attackers of space.

Tevez was terrible.

Brilliant goal from Aguero. How the fuck Lavezzi starts ahead of him and Di Maria?

Because they are trying to figure out who is best to play with Messi, not who is the best player.

Banega is so

Oh, yes.

That pointless fancy play in midfield, while offering no incisive play, was just great.

And that's not even getting on to the sort of incompetence to allow the ball to go through him for Bolivia's goal.

How the fuck G.Milito is picked ahead of Walter Samuel? Samuel is easily the best South American defender yet he is not in the squad.

Maybe because Samuel has barely played a competitive game in about eight months?

 

[Nedvěd]

Great game from Bolivia.

Their captain was near perfect at CB and their CF, though he missed one-on-one, did a good job of holding the ball up and stopping Argentina building momentum.

Argentina looked pretty clueless, especially once Bolivia managed to close to gap between defence and midfield to keep Messi quiet.

Cambiasso tried to do it, but they need a box-to-box runner in midfield to stretch the game and open up space. Playing with three pretty static midfielders and without attacking fullbacks makes it relatively easy to a team to make the game very compact and deprive attackers of space.

Tevez was terrible.



Because they are trying to figure out who is best to play with Messi, not who is the best player.



Oh, yes.

That pointless fancy play in midfield, while offering no incisive play, was just great.

And that's not even getting on to the sort of incompetence to allow the ball to go through him for Bolivia's goal.



Maybe because Samuel has barely played a competitive game in about eight months?

I know that they are trying to find the formation that suits Messi the best, but it didn't work, especially with Lavezzi who was poor all game.

Banega was alright, made some nice passes and worked hard, he is best when played in a 4-4-2 and he didn't get that with Argentina.

And is Milito any difference? he made only around 10 appearances this season and wasn't good in them.

 

[Red]

Was Milito injured, though?

I'm only guessing as to the reason, because Samuel is clearly a great player.

What Argentina did last night didn't work, but they are still trying to figure out a way to play.

Lavezzi's end product was crap, but at least he moved well and took up good positions. Tevez, on the other hand, was very static and didn't do anything when he did get the ball.

 

[Nedvěd]

He was earlier this season.

Both Lavezzi and Tevez were poor, I agree with what you said, Tevez was too static and Lavezzi's movement was alright, but he wasted the ball in the final third. When Aguero and Di Maria came on, it stretched Bolivia wider and Argentina became more dangerous going forward.

I think Argentina should stop trying to get the best out of Messi and focus on team efforts. I think they should use Messi as an attacking midfielder, like Diego used him in the world cup, and it worked against lesser teams.

I'd like to see them playing something like this:

Tevez-Higuain-Di Maria
--------Messi----------
----Camb--Masch
Rojo--Burdis-Milito-Zanetti
----------Romero--------

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I wonder what would've happened if Aguero started instead of Lavezzi, played badly, and got subbed off. Would you guys say Aguero is a shit player and you don't want him here?

 

[Red]

When Aguero and Di Maria came on, it stretched Bolivia wider and Argentina became more dangerous going forward.

I'm not sure if that was down to those players coming on or if it's just that Bolivia were getting tired.

I think Argentina should stop trying to get the best out of Messi and focus on team efforts.

I agree.

I'd be inclined to shift Messi back to his right wing position and go for something like:

Mascherano-Cambiasso

-------------Pastore-------Di Maria

Messi------Striker--------​

 

[Red]

I wonder what would've happened if Aguero started instead of Lavezzi, played badly, and got subbed off. Would you guys say Aguero is a shit player and you don't want him here?

I wouldn't.

 

[X Æ A-12]

I wonder what would've happened if Aguero started instead of Lavezzi, played badly, and got subbed off. Would you guys say Aguero is a shit player and you don't want him here?

no.

 

[JBF]

I'm not sure if that was down to those players coming on or if it's just that Bolivia were getting tired.



I agree.

I'd be inclined to shift Messi back to his right wing position and go for something like:

Mascherano-Cambiasso

-------------Pastore-------Di Maria

Messi------Striker--------​

Pastore is bound to fail when played in midfiled rather than up front. He'll neither defend nor assist the way he should, just ask Palermo..

 

[Nedvěd]

I'm not sure if that was down to those players coming on or if it's just that Bolivia were getting tired.



I agree.

I'd be inclined to shift Messi back to his right wing position and go for something like:

Mascherano-Cambiasso

-------------Pastore-------Di Maria

Messi------Striker--------​

That's a good formation, especially if you have a striker like Higuain there. I think a 4-3-3 with a midfield of Banega, Masch and Cambiasso with Messi on the right, cutting in with his left, Tevez on the left cutting in with his right and Higuain in the middle would work.

 

[Red]

Pastore is bound to fail when played in midfiled rather than up front. He'll neither defend nor assist the way he should, just ask Palermo..

How do you figure that out?

He played as trequartista for Palermo all season, had a good first half of the season and a poorer second half of the season.

That second half of the season doesn't mean he isn't a very capable player.

I'm also not that inclined to blame players who struggle for consistency at Palermo, given the complete lack of stability at that club.

Also, Pastore wouldn't be the focus of the team the way he is at Palermo, so there would be more space for him and less pressure.

 

[JBF]

How do you figure that out?

He played as trequartista for Palermo all season, had a good first half of the season and a poorer second half of the season.

That second half of the season doesn't mean he isn't a very capable player.

I'm also not that inclined to blame players who struggle for consistency at Palermo, given the complete lack of stability at that club.

Also, Pastore wouldn't be the focus of the team the way he is at Palermo, so there would be more space for him and less pressure.

I was pointing out he won't succeed being the regista in a 3 man midfield, like your formation suggested he would be. I've no idea why you're discussing his performances as a trequartista when you're playing him out of position.

 

[Red]

That's a good formation, especially if you have a striker like Higuain there. I think a 4-3-3 with a midfield of Banega, Masch and Cambiasso with Messi on the right, cutting in with his left, Tevez on the left cutting in with his right and Higuain in the middle would work.

I'm not sure about that midfield three; seems a bit static to me.

I'd also be concerned at playing with Tevez and Messi on the wings that the team would lack width with both of them cutting in. It's not like Zanetti and Rojo seem to offer an awaful lot of width.

Just sounds like a team that could get bogged down against a packed midfield.

 

[Red]

I was pointing out he won't succeed being the regista in a 3 man midfield, like your formation suggested he would be. I've no idea why you're discussing his performances as a trequartista when you're playing him out of position.

Regista?

I thought my formation was pretty clear but apparently not.

I was suggesting giving Pastore a pretty free attacking midfield role playing just off the forwards but ahead of the midfield i.e. as a trequartista since that is his normal role.

 

[JBF]

Regista?

I thought my formation was pretty clear but apparently not.

I was suggesting giving Pastore a pretty free attacking midfield role playing just off the forwards but ahead of the midfield i.e. as a trequartista since that is his normal role.

Then there's no way Di Maria would function in a 3 man midfield the way you picture it. He's at his best when running down the left flank and barely given any defensive duties. You'll burn him out for nothing this way IMO.

I say put Lucho Gonzalez instead of Di Maria there and you've got one hell of a formation. That ofcourse if the former is called up.

 

[Nedvěd]

I'm not sure about that midfield three; seems a bit static to me.

I'd also be concerned at playing with Tevez and Messi on the wings that the team would lack width with both of them cutting in. It's not like Zanetti and Rojo seem to offer an awaful lot of width.

Just sounds like a team that could get bogged down against a packed midfield.

The problem that Argentina doesn't have much of options down the middle, you can have Gago instead of Banega but that would make the team even more static, and the other midfielder is Biglia whom I never seen play before so can't comment on him.
I don't think Argentina will win the Copa unless Messi hits top form and carries the team on his own.
Last Copa Argentina was much better, despite the fact that the likes of Tevez, Messi and Maschreano have improved a lot since the last Copa.
Argentina is lacking someone like Veron, capable of dedicating the game from deep, and a creative player like Riquelme who makes things happen in the final third.
Would like to see Messi playing as an attacking midfielder, or at least Pastore.

 

[Red]

Then there's no way Di Maria would function in a 3 man midfield the way you picture it. He's at his best when running down the left flank and barely given any defensive duties. You'll burn him out for nothing this way IMO.

I say put Lucho Gonzalez instead of Di Maria there and you've got one hell of a formation. That ofcourse if the former is called up.

A three man midfield?

I was suggesting a slightly adjusted 4-2-3-1 formation.

Against most teams, the back four and the two deep midfielders will be enough for Argentina, so the forward four would't have to do much defending.

 

[Red]

The problem that Argentina doesn't have much of options down the middle, you can have Gago instead of Banega but that would make the team even more static, and the other midfielder is Biglia whom I never seen play before so can't comment on him.
I don't think Argentina will win the Copa unless Messi hits top form and carries the team on his own.
Last Copa Argentina was much better, despite the fact that the likes of Tevez, Messi and Maschreano have improved a lot since the last Copa.
Argentina is lacking someone like Veron, capable of dedicating the game from deep, and a creative player like Riquelme who makes things happen in the final third.
Would like to see Messi playing as an attacking midfielder, or at least Pastore.

I'm not sure it's a Veron type that they lack.

Seems to me that, not unusually for a South American team, they have too many players who are quite static and want the ball to feet and not enough players who are willing to run off the ball to move the opposition around and create space.

It is possible to do well without off-the-ball runners, but it means you will generally be dependent of players consistently beating their man one-on-one, which can be a risky thing to rely on.

I think Di Maria needs to be in the team because he does move off the ball and just the him standing on the touchline can make a big difference to how big the pitch will be.