Claudio Ranieri (43 Viewers)

Amaurisimo

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2007
4,622
You know i haven't been able to say much in these forums for a while but even i am getting really fed up with Ranieri and his transfer "policy". Which decent coach regards Sissoko to be "world-class"? That alone says a lot about the man, and that also probably underlines why he has never won shit in his career. Not very ambitious in my opinion. I was in agreement with his arrival at least i was willing to give him a chance...now im beginning to think that it was a terrible decision. One thing is for certain. Secco knows shit about transfers and we are being turned into the laughing stock of Europe. SHIT...cant we do something as fans to send a message to those :faq1:ers who r pretending to run our club. THIS IS JUVENTUS...the world's greates club - Sissoko has no place here, if he aint good enough for RAfa and Liverpool then how can he be good ebough for us. Seems Ranieri is more interested in bringing his friends here than those who can actually do us some good. Are we gonna have another terrible transfer campaign. Shit now even Delio Rossi is seeming like a better candidate.Any one with any brilliant protest idea...count me in
it would be good to stay that way :p
 

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Sidindi

Junior Member
Jan 18, 2008
75
I am growing frustrated with the state of affairs in Juve. Beginning with the ownership, management, and the coach.

Ranieri was exactly what the "new Juventus" wanted. A manager well liked in the community, Italian, one who CAN have success. He was, for all intents and purposes, a safe choice. One saving grace, I think, of his hiring, was that there were not many, much better, available choices out there. Yeah, Deshamps did well, but let's get real -- we all knew that he wasn't going to stick for long. He just did not fill the role left behind by some of the great coaches of the past (I know, Ancelloti, and Capello are not very popular at Juve, but they are world-renowned for a reason, unlike Deshamps and to lesser extent Ranieri).

So here's to hoping that he is just a stop-gap solution until we get our legs under us football-wise, and financially. Think about it, if we couldn't attract world class footballers, do you think we could have attracted world-class coaches last summer? No. He will help us get respectable position in the table, make European Competition of some sort, attract 1st class footballing talent as a result (but maybe not world-class quite yet), and then any next trip-up by the team will result in his sacking. He is not a coach that would be controversially fired. He is not a gigantic name like Wenger, Mourinho, or Hiidink, whose firing would be met with outcry of dissolution by the supporters (see Ramos leaving Sevilla, or Erickson leaving Lazio etc.).

RANIERI SHOULD ONLY BE A TRANSITIONAL COACH.

Once we get respectable, he will be replaced by someone who has the ability to bring us success.

Now, I am hoping all this is true, and that our management is not completely off the deep end, and pledge their allegiance to a coach who hasn't done much more with more talent than present Juve.
Let's hope the management, no matter how bad they have been in the past, will soon regain their killer instinct and will fire a coach (or whoever is necessary) to resume being the Juve we all loved and enjoyed in the great days before the relegation. I hope they will go back and demand results, they will only expect the best, and will act accordingly. Let's not fall into the football and organizational mediocrity on par with Fiorentina and Parma -- who, before everyone attacks me -- have both had great days in the top of the European pinacle and then fallen on bad times, and have since fallen into annonymity (in terms of attracting top players in the world, and consistently challenging for the Cups and Championships they once won convincingly).

If I am right, and Ranieri will get the axe after this season (or once he fails to deliver afterwards), I see a couple of problems in the future: he is only an average evaluator of talent, and its possible will leave Juve like he left Chelsea...with players he regarded highly, but had to be sold because they were very ineffective. He also did not really leave behind any great young prospects. Coincidence? I don't think so. We all talk about his "system" and "tinkering," but the truth of the matter is that if he rejects transfers of well-established, high-quality players, and signs mediocre players that fit "his system," Juve of the future will be further set back; even after he is gone. So no matter what transfers he makes, I fear his judgement, because he is a temporary solution who can influence the future of the club, beyond his presence.
 
Mar 30, 2006
3,747
everybody hating on Ranieri. He has done excellent given the players at his disposal.

For those who want him to get fired.. it wont happen. His job is very safe at the moment. I too think there are better coaches but Ranieri is a very good one and is doing a very good job at a very low price.

First it was the hate for Capello .. now Ranieri...

he has surpassed all the goals set for him. Who cares if Tiago and Almiron are trash and he does not play them etc? ..
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
everybody hating on Ranieri. He has done excellent given the players at his disposal.

For those who want him to get fired.. it wont happen. His job is very safe at the moment. I too think there are better coaches but Ranieri is a very good one and is doing a very good job at a very low price.

First it was the hate for Capello .. now Ranieri...

he has surpassed all the goals set for him. Who cares if Tiago and Almiron are trash and he does not play them etc? ..
we are winners and Juve needs a winning Coach...and that he isn't...he has shown that he is guy who can build a squad but can only take it so far...Valencia Chelsea and now Juventus...i am also pleased overall but i know this team can still do much more...and i don't believe that he is the guy who should be at the helm
 
Jun 7, 2003
3,496
we are winners and Juve needs a winning Coach...and that he isn't...he has shown that he is guy who can build a squad but can only take it so far...Valencia Chelsea and now Juventus...i am also pleased overall but i know this team can still do much more...and i don't believe that he is the guy who should be at the helm
its the same bullshit like ancelotti he was also not a winning coach, now look what he won with milan....so coaches can only win things with great teams...ranieri had til now only good teams but not winning teams...when he was at chelsea...chelsea wasnt that chelsea that we know now...his first year with abramovich he did well only to lose against monaco otherwise he would have won the cl i guess...the valencia team is not a team but dolts, guys who only can fight at the end when they lose...koeman is on the right path(with suspending santiago, albelda and angulo, he should also ban marchena who is also an asshole)...

so give ranieri a chance he did until now a great job...but our managment sucks...
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
its the same bullshit like ancelotti he was also not a winning coach, now look what he won with milan....so coaches can only win things with great teams...ranieri had til now only good teams but not winning teams...when he was at chelsea...chelsea wasnt that chelsea that we know now...his first year with abramovich he did well only to lose against monaco otherwise he would have won the cl i guess...the valencia team is not a team but dolts, guys who only can fight at the end when they lose...koeman is on the right path(with suspending santiago, albelda and angulo, he should also ban marchena who is also an asshole)...

so give ranieri a chance he did until now a great job...but our managment sucks...


well Ranieri was also given a blank cheque under Abramovich, and got World Class players like Crespo Mutu etc... and still failed to deliver...Mourinho in the same situation won the EPL in his 1st season...after Ranieri Valencia went on to win La Liga and reach 2 CL finals...so our future looks bright!! but without Ranieri of course...

and Ancelotti...i always thought we should not have fired coz I really liked him as a Coach...and remember we lost the Scudetto to Roma under very controversial circumstances (water-logged, unplayable pitch conditions in final game vs Perugia) and Lippi wanted to come back, so there was never going to be any argument with who was better for Juve
 
Jun 7, 2003
3,496
well Ranieri was also given a blank cheque under Abramovich, and got World Class players like Crespo Mutu etc... and still failed to deliver...Mourinho in the same situation won the EPL in his 1st season...after Ranieri Valencia went on to win La Liga and reach 2 CL finals...so our future looks bright!! but without Ranieri of course...

and Ancelotti...i always thought we should not have fired coz I really liked him as a Coach...and remember we lost the Scudetto to Roma under very controversial circumstances (water-logged, unplayable pitch conditions in final game vs Perugia) and Lippi wanted to come back, so there was never going to be any argument with who was better for Juve
i mean the second stint of ranieri with valencia...the first time he made a good job that was the reason why they wanted him back after Rafa Benitez....
and yes Hector Cuper and Benitez are maybe better than him...but Benitez rotates to much, and buys players hmm which i dont know what to think of them...(e.g. kuyt)...or he buys players like Torres only to treat him like kuyt and rotate him...
i like him he is a genius but i dont want to see him in Juve...like cappello who i really respekt but deeply hate him...
 

Sidindi

Junior Member
Jan 18, 2008
75
I completely agree with Ahmed, and that really was my point from the the other long post above. The real problem here is when we start talking about what the goals for Ranieri were before the season. Let's get real. Regardless of the position in the table (unless you are first by a mile), the most important thing about a coach is that A) the team plays well B) the players are happy (its called managing for a reason) and C) that he develops talent.

A) The teams is not playing well. This is not something we as fans are used to. I don't care about names or about table positions. One thing is for sure, as Juventus we are expected to be competitive and be able to challenge teams like Inter, and AC Milan, our rivals. If we truly did not have a good team and could not even make it to the position in the table we are in now, the team would still be expected to play hard, and win against main rivals, which is what the Milanese teams are. If we cannot challenge these (and yes AC is a good team, just don't prioritize the league or the cup -- hence doing above expectations in the CL), we cannot consider ourselves playing well. Ranieri took players who were renowned in the past: Almiron, Tiago, Molinaro, Grygera, Criscito and Palladino and made them regress in their abilities. This is exactly the opposite of what is expected of him. He even had trouble motivating Nedved in the beginning of the season. I know this is a point that will challenged, but let me just say, that all of these people were hailed as good, and certainly good-enough to help significantly to the rebuilding Juve, they have not. Now, one -- maybe two or three of these I am willing to buy, but all six failing to deliver?!? That is just lack of develpment by the coach. Molinaro and Almiron (who was supposed to be our more-skilled Emerson) were cornerstones of their respective teams last year. Leaders on the field, and unanimously respected in the league. Such massive steps back as they have made are hard to atribute to them only. Grygera is a solid defender, why not in Juve? Criscito loaned out already?!? Even Nocerino is not developing quite as rapidly as his playing time should indicate.
Come on guys, this is an issue of the TEAM development, not personal failures. We have performed poorly as a team. And to those pointing out how great some other players were, I have this to say: Buffon, DP, Nedved, Camoranesi, and Trezeguet are supposed be great. That's why they have the roles on the team they have. They are expected, and hired for their clutch abilities. If one of them plays poorly, the others should pick up the slack sufficiently that the team as a whole does not suffer significantly. We all knew Chiellini was great, so no surprise there, and I don't even consider him in the next list: Zanetti is playing well above expectations, but people do not approach him on the street thinking he's Mascherano, or Pirlo or someone of this status. He is a great solution for now, but is not indispensable. We are lucky he stepped it up like that. Same goes for Lergottaglie. And to lesser extent Iaquinta, and Salihamidzic. Look, they are good, but have performed above expectations, and its not due to the coach. Besides MAYBE Iaquinta, would anyone be upset if any of these was replaced by someone like Mascherano (Zanetti), Milito (Legrottaglie), Van der Vaart (Salihamidzic -- I know not a replacement but you know what I mean), or Diego/Huntelaar (in Iaquinta's case) respectivelly? No. Because they have surprised us, and Ranieri. Which means he had nothing to do with it. So don't talk about him doing above expectations. He underperformed as a coach, mismanaged games, and players. The reason we are as high in the table as we are is due to personal heroics by a different player each game. Heroics by players who are supposed to be heroes irregardless of the coach. This is upsetting to me. We should be higher in the table if he did anything close to the job for which he was hired -- make us play well as a team -- manage the team.
Again, we have yet to play well as a team!

B) Ask Tiago and Almiron how happy they are...
The team morale might be good, but that is due to leaders like Buffon and DP (who actually had to hit a player this year to get a point across, OK?). I have a feeling that a further slump in team form would bring morale down quicker than you think. The players are not happy with the Juve situaion as a whole. Almost all are worried about even making the field, or the starting line-up. This is not because the Tinkerman is polishing the line-up. It is because...well injuries to key players, but in great part because nobody knows whether Ranieri actually has a clue. All defenders are scared of making a mistake because they know they won't play the next game. The midfielders are scared because they saw what happened to Tiago and Almiron once they fell out of favor. For a coach who does not have an "iron fist" reputation, Ranieri is not keeping the team happy, and it shows on their game. Defense does not radiate confidence in the rest of the team, and what is worse of the morale, the problems in defense further put presssure on Buffon. What happens if he has a bad game? Will even the little confidence offense has in defense (which is important for their confidence to take a chance and try to create) be replaced by fear of possibility of failure?

C) I mostly already addressed it, but he is no Wenger, no Ramos, no Capello, no Hiidink, no Mourinho, no Ferguson, no Erickson, no Hitzfeld, no Scolari, no Lippi....and that's all I can think of right now. I know some of these guys can be argued against as talent developers, but they have never made the quality of the whole team take a step back in relation to the overall talent level like Ranieri is doing with this team. Remember when Nedved would take over games on his own? Or Iaquinta doing the same in Udinese? Did you watch some of these players prior to the Ranieri "impact?" Few seemed to have actually taken steps forward or at least to the level they are accustomed to.

Some of the things I write about are probably subjective, but they do contain at least some truth in them. Ranieri era scares me. Deshamps did more with less pieces and less coaching experience. Erickson did wonders with Lazio or about equal talent quality as today's Juve, and did it in about equal quality among other teams in the league. Lazio! Wenger and how he shaped Arsenal into a force? Enough said. Capello might not be very popular with his stubbornness and systems he chooses, but he sure delivered everywhere he coached don't you think? That's why he got two of the highest-pressure jobs in football in the world in a row (Real Madrid, then England NT). Talk about scrutiny and expectations. You want to talk about exceeding goals as a coach, Hiidink has yet to fail a team that appoints him as a coach, and had to meet some pretty ridiculous expectations. Would anyone have thought that South Korea had quality players? How far did he carry them? Are any of those players playing in top teams around Europe, or considered top 3 in the world material? No.

I fear Ranieri's impact on the team in the future too. I am quite frustrated by this team's mediocrity, and like I said before, hope and pray he is a transitional coach, because he has yet to prove to me (or really anyone I suppose) that he can get more out of this team, and make them take a step to the next level. And ladies and gentleman this next level is coming next year. Like it or not, if Ranieri causes Juve to pull a Lazio, and we don't make it out of the CL group stage, and don't even qualify for UEFA...that will be a very, very bad sign.

Last thing I want to say: think of what happened to Bayern when they did not qualify for CL last year. They retooled, hired a proven coach for the transitional period, now signed a pre-contract with a young, repsected, innovative coach whose teams performed ONLY above expectations (OK limited sample but you get the point), and revamped the team. Do you have the confidence that if Ranieri continues coaching with the same mixed level of managerial success next season, and we miss out on CL, that we as an organization will do the same? Will they even fire him?

The Claudio Ranieri situation bothers me, because he just might be confortable-enough of an option as a coach, not to fire him, and Juve will fall into mediocrity. I am not throwing him under the bus, because his appointment choice made sense at the time. We were a troubled team and he was a safe choice. Fine. But HE needs to do better as a coach, and he sure as hell should not say things like "I don't need Van der Vaart" or "Huntelaar is not how we intend strikers in Italy to be." He has the ability and influence to take Juve backwards.

I do hope I am wrong.

P.S.: Sorry again for the long post, I'll try to do better to keep it short in the future. I got fed up, and didn't feel like studying.
 
Mar 30, 2006
3,747
I am growing frustrated with the state of affairs in Juve. Beginning with the ownership, management, and the coach.

Ranieri was exactly what the "new Juventus" wanted. A manager well liked in the community, Italian, one who CAN have success. He was, for all intents and purposes, a safe choice. One saving grace, I think, of his hiring, was that there were not many, much better, available choices out there. Yeah, Deshamps did well, but let's get real -- we all knew that he wasn't going to stick for long. He just did not fill the role left behind by some of the great coaches of the past (I know, Ancelloti, and Capello are not very popular at Juve, but they are world-renowned for a reason, unlike Deshamps and to lesser extent Ranieri).

So here's to hoping that he is just a stop-gap solution until we get our legs under us football-wise, and financially. Think about it, if we couldn't attract world class footballers, do you think we could have attracted world-class coaches last summer? No. He will help us get respectable position in the table, make European Competition of some sort, attract 1st class footballing talent as a result (but maybe not world-class quite yet), and then any next trip-up by the team will result in his sacking. He is not a coach that would be controversially fired. He is not a gigantic name like Wenger, Mourinho, or Hiidink, whose firing would be met with outcry of dissolution by the supporters (see Ramos leaving Sevilla, or Erickson leaving Lazio etc.).

RANIERI SHOULD ONLY BE A TRANSITIONAL COACH.

Once we get respectable, he will be replaced by someone who has the ability to bring us success.

Now, I am hoping all this is true, and that our management is not completely off the deep end, and pledge their allegiance to a coach who hasn't done much more with more talent than present Juve.
Let's hope the management, no matter how bad they have been in the past, will soon regain their killer instinct and will fire a coach (or whoever is necessary) to resume being the Juve we all loved and enjoyed in the great days before the relegation. I hope they will go back and demand results, they will only expect the best, and will act accordingly. Let's not fall into the football and organizational mediocrity on par with Fiorentina and Parma -- who, before everyone attacks me -- have both had great days in the top of the European pinacle and then fallen on bad times, and have since fallen into annonymity (in terms of attracting top players in the world, and consistently challenging for the Cups and Championships they once won convincingly).

If I am right, and Ranieri will get the axe after this season (or once he fails to deliver afterwards), I see a couple of problems in the future: he is only an average evaluator of talent, and its possible will leave Juve like he left Chelsea...with players he regarded highly, but had to be sold because they were very ineffective. He also did not really leave behind any great young prospects. Coincidence? I don't think so. We all talk about his "system" and "tinkering," but the truth of the matter is that if he rejects transfers of well-established, high-quality players, and signs mediocre players that fit "his system," Juve of the future will be further set back; even after he is gone. So no matter what transfers he makes, I fear his judgement, because he is a temporary solution who can influence the future of the club, beyond his presence.


You judge a coach on his results.. current ones. Ranieri has done nothing to warrant his dismissal and as long as he keeps it that way he will keep his job. You don't fire a coach who does more than what is expected of him after one season because of what "type" of coach he has been labeled (transitional). If this were the case Milan would have never had all the success they have had under Anchelotti as he was labeled (a permanent runner up). You evaluate coaches based on their current work with their current team.

Also Ranieri has made no indication that he wants mediocre players that fit his system.. i don't know where that came from. If anything the signing of Mediocre players is Secco and the rest of management's ideas seeing how they were responsible for the transfer of Almiron, Tiago, Molinero...

Ranieri has stated on several occassions he wants to sign top class players and if hoping the management secure these important transfers. The fact he left no young prospects at Chelsea is also due to the lack of a youth system in place at Chelsea after Roman took it over. With a Billionaire who is willing to buy anyone he wants do you need a youth system with promising talent? .. No he simply buys talent. Ranieri did promote Terry from the previous youth setup and brought in a younger developing Lampard in his time in charge. Not to mention he got the best out of many players and made them into a team that performed better as the seasons went on.

I am not a huge Ranieri fan but it is senseless to try to make it look like he is not doing a good job or should be fired in the near future when there is not real reason to suggest so.

Either way, when and if he does get poor results, like any coach he will be replaced.
 
Mar 30, 2006
3,747
well Ranieri was also given a blank cheque under Abramovich, and got World Class players like Crespo Mutu etc... and still failed to deliver...Mourinho in the same situation won the EPL in his 1st season...after Ranieri Valencia went on to win La Liga and reach 2 CL finals...so our future looks bright!! but without Ranieri of course...

and Ancelotti...i always thought we should not have fired coz I really liked him as a Coach...and remember we lost the Scudetto to Roma under very controversial circumstances (water-logged, unplayable pitch conditions in final game vs Perugia) and Lippi wanted to come back, so there was never going to be any argument with who was better for Juve

To be fair Ranieri Bought Crespo ... and hardly was able to use him.
Bought Veron and lost him to a back surgery ...

Yet he still kept a very good pace in the EPL finishing second to a unbeatable arsenal team and made it into the Semi's of the CL.

Plus not to mention having to integrate so many new players and deal with the injuries to his key buys I think he did very well in England.

As for Ancelotti and you wanting him to stay ... alot of ppl say good things about him now.. but before he won the CL he had a huge cloud over his head. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have.
 

Sidindi

Junior Member
Jan 18, 2008
75
Interesting points. Look, I don't say I understand the issue, and certainly the management has done theirs to undermine the transfer policy, but its not all Secco. Secco does not make these players better. The coach does that.

Just to clarify though: I am not calling for Ranieri's firing. The team is doing well statistically. They are not playing well though. What I am saying is, that as a transitional coach, he will be more likely to be fired ONCE bad results come, and will be given less patience in those times than a top-notch, high quality coach would. All mostly because of the mental label of a transitional/rebuilding term coach.

Also, I am not saying he means to sign mediocre players. I am just saying that closing doors on very good players by everyone's standards (Huntelaar and VDV), for what seems to be no reason is not wise when he promotes the acquisition of players like Sissoko.
Also, getting Tiago and Almiron was his perogative (as far as I heard, I admit I might be wrong), and they are certainly neither a top class player. That's where the comments about bad signings come from.
 

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