Claudio Ranieri (65 Viewers)

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
116,002
No i don't. You didn't understand what i was trying to say. I honestly don't rate English NT very much. But that doesn't change the fact that english football could be good nonetheless. What i want to say is that NT and LEAGUE are two pair of shoes. Of course Derby or sth is not the prime of today's football, but honestly, if i had to bet on ManU - Inter (the two leaders of the respective leagues we are comparing) i wouldn't bet a dime on inter. And look at the CL-Finals, they must be doing SOMETHING to be successful. I don't say that english football is the best, but you can't be so shortsighted and say that serie-a is above everything. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, there is no 'better' league. As i said, speaking of MYSELF, i must say that very often i'm much more entertained by the EPL. If it's the better football? Don't know... but the better 'entertainment' for sure (for me).
And saying EPL is just force like you said is wrong. The times when Serie-A is only defence, Liga is only dancing and EPL is only beating up each other are OVER, there's no argument about that. The huge amount of foreigners (especially in england) make it a nice-to-see mix of tactics. In EVERY league
I never said anything about Serie A. We aren't comparing leagues here.

But what we are doing is analyzing Lampard's foolish statement that tries to argue that it's alright if we play long balls because of the teams in the Semifinals of the Champions League This statement is wrong on two fronts because 1) The top four English sides don't play English football in Europe and 2) long balls never work in the Champions League. It doesn't suit our side to play with long balls and English tactics because as Burke already said we don't have pacy wingers and big guys up top to handle this sort of game.

And to respond to your other point, the fact that there aren't many Englishmen on the top English teams IS a problem for them. Not only does it show they don't have many talents, but also that their better players are not developing under the best managers and clubs possible. They're all phased out by the foreigners, which DOES stunt the growth of their own side.
 

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vimo

Senior Member
Apr 1, 2006
1,042
I never said anything about Serie A. We aren't comparing leagues here.

But what we are doing is analyzing Lampard's foolish statement that tries to argue that it's alright if we play long balls because of the teams in the Semifinals of the Champions League This statement is wrong on two fronts because 1) The top four English sides don't play English football in Europe and 2) long balls never work in the Champions League. It doesn't suit our side to play with long balls and English tactics because as Burke already said we don't have pacy wingers and big guys up top to handle this sort of game.
well in that case, i take back my comments and i agree.

And to respond to your other point, the fact that there aren't many Englishmen on the top English teams IS a problem for them. Not only does it show they don't have many talents, but also that their better players are not developing under the best managers and clubs possible. They're all phased out by the foreigners, which DOES stunt the growth of their own side.
agree again. that's what i was trying to say. The Money put into epl 'compensates' that lack of englishmen somehow but is also contraproductive because for any top english team it's far easier to buy solid, proven, expensive (foureign) players than grow them by yourself which is the main reason why the english nt can't develop itself. (and i doubt capello will change much about that)
 

Amaurisimo

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2007
4,622
I never said anything about Serie A. We aren't comparing leagues here.

But what we are doing is analyzing Lampard's foolish statement that tries to argue that it's alright if we play long balls because of the teams in the Semifinals of the Champions League This statement is wrong on two fronts because 1) The top four English sides don't play English football in Europe and 2) long balls never work in the Champions League. It doesn't suit our side to play with long balls and English tactics because as Burke already said we don't have pacy wingers and big guys up top to handle this sort of game.

And to respond to your other point, the fact that there aren't many Englishmen on the top English teams IS a problem for them. Not only does it show they don't have many talents, but also that their better players are not developing under the best managers and clubs possible. They're all phased out by the foreigners, which DOES stunt the growth of their own side.

Andy,

You either like to twist the words, or you can not read properly as i NEVER said it's all right to play long balls because of EPL teams....
What i said in defense to Ranieri, that he gets blamed for playing long balls, which he still do sometimes, (when we don't have enough creative force on field).
I never said let's copy whole EPL or same style.
But i did also say that the fact is that currently EPL is stronger and better than Italian league as a whole and that we should copy some of that.
And there should not be any arguments..

Although, me as well as many in here agree with you, that by having many foreign players in EPL, their NT future will look weaker and ....
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,493
I watch and appreciate EPL as a football fan. But jump off the brainwashing capitalistic EPL asian bandwagon already, Lampard (Japan especially is the worst, in the gullible hype country of the world, which you are from). If Calcio needs to copy something from EPL, its how the MANAGE their league, bussiness wise and administratively. Some bozo got kicked off for life from anfield for trying to throw something at Neville recently, while in Calcio just one of many things being Lazio fans racially ABUSE their own players in pre-match songs. Calcio's infrastructure is amateurish and its because of how things Italy in general are. But when it comes to FOOTBALL, FRIGGING football, Italy doesnt need to copy a single thing from EPL and England. England football wise in their youth set-ups and football idea, coaches etc, are LACKING compared to the other big countries (listen to Wenger and wy he is forced to do what he does, listen to even Fergie who is buying top foreign talents because of the basic flaws of english football). Especially the most successful european football country in Italy. All of their EPLs are almost exlusively foreign, their basic grassroots youth setup has been left unattended by the same archaic english mentality, and by the same english coaches who arent good enough to coach their own league and NT.

You say Serie A should copy long ball football for some reason because EPL has 3 teams in semi, did you actually use the tiny thing between your ears when you said that? Its EPL and English football who has needed to foreign coaches to improve their basic football and catch up with the rest, english coaches from grassroots to the top has been abysmal and incompetent mofos who scold those who try to be creative and do the basics of actual football, and elevate those who run the hardest and kicks the hardest (they can keep the strong points to their football mentality, which is mainly strong mentality, physicality attitude, but need to copy and adapt for everything else).

I mean FFS, you have the nerve to suggest that, when the least of the problem italian football has is its football and its coaches (if antyhing, they coach too much, and give too much emphasizes on their tactical ideas, and you actually suggest they should adopt the most basic and retarded football tactic ever used by those who know nothing else, longball tactic is the desperate measure of simpletons who cant find any other solution). They have one of the greatest (if not the greatest) of coaches in the world, together with the dutch and few other top footballing countries. I mean, did you happen to notice WHO is Englands NT coach?


Seriously, basically its as simple as this, off the pitch stuff of football, from stadiums, revenue, administrative work, bussiness and football infrastructure in general, England are extremely capable on, and Italy TOTAL amateurs and worthless in. This is the only place Italy needs to take out the notebooks and learn. But when it comes to actual football, the FACT that English NT is totally worthless, while Italy is the most successful in Europe and second best in the world says a thing. Another is the fact ALL coaches in Serie A are italian except Hector Cuper (who wont have a job soon) says another thing. While in England respectively...well I dont need to tell you how many english coaches there are (all small team coaches except Everton and Newscastle basically).

Basically, Italy needs to run its league as efficiently as possible, as in England, that would mean what it needs that EPL has is money which comes with healthy bussiness. But I repeat, it doesn't need NOTHING else, and in the vital part that is football, England needs lessons from Italy in every way (God I cant believe you really suggested long ball tactic as something to copy, they do it EVERYWHERE in the world were an incompetent simpleton runs a football team, tells you something of the capability's of those in charge of english football).
 
Apr 12, 2004
77,165
I watch and appreciate EPL as a football fan. But jump off the brainwashing capitalistic EPL asian bandwagon already, Lampard (Japan especially is the worst, in the gullible hype country of the world, which you are from). If Calcio needs to copy something from EPL, its how the MANAGE their league, bussiness wise and administratively. Some bozo got kicked off for life from anfield for trying to throw something at Neville recently, while in Calcio just one of many things being Lazio fans racially ABUSE their own players in pre-match songs. Calcio's infrastructure is amateurish and its because of how things Italy in general are. But when it comes to FOOTBALL, FRIGGING football, Italy doesnt need to copy a single thing from EPL and England. England football wise in their youth set-ups and football idea, coaches etc, are LACKING compared to the other big countries (listen to Wenger and wy he is forced to do what he does, listen to even Fergie who is buying top foreign talents because of the basic flaws of english football). Especially the most successful european football country in Italy. All of their EPLs are almost exlusively foreign, their basic grassroots youth setup has been left unattended by the same archaic english mentality, and by the same english coaches who arent good enough to coach their own league and NT.

You say Serie A should copy long ball football for some reason because EPL has 3 teams in semi, did you actually use the tiny thing between your ears when you said that? Its EPL and English football who has needed to foreign coaches to improve their basic football and catch up with the rest, english coaches from grassroots to the top has been abysmal and incompetent mofos who scold those who try to be creative and do the basics of actual football, and elevate those who run the hardest and kicks the hardest (they can keep the strong points to their football mentality, which is mainly strong mentality, physicality attitude, but need to copy and adapt for everything else).

I mean FFS, you have the nerve to suggest that, when the least of the problem italian football has is its football and its coaches (if antyhing, they coach too much, and give too much emphasizes on their tactical ideas, and you actually suggest they should adopt the most basic and retarded football tactic ever used by those who know nothing else, longball tactic is the desperate measure of simpletons who cant find any other solution). They have one of the greatest (if not the greatest) of coaches in the world, together with the dutch and few other top footballing countries. I mean, did you happen to notice WHO is Englands NT coach?


Seriously, basically its as simple as this, off the pitch stuff of football, from stadiums, revenue, administrative work, bussiness and football infrastructure in general, England are extremely capable on, and Italy TOTAL amateurs and worthless in. This is the only place Italy needs to take out the notebooks and learn. But when it comes to actual football, the FACT that English NT is totally worthless, while Italy is the most successful in Europe and second best in the world says a thing. Another is the fact ALL coaches in Serie A are italian except Hector Cuper (who wont have a job soon) says another thing. While in England respectively...well I dont need to tell you how many english coaches there are (all small team coaches except Everton and Newscastle basically).

Basically, Italy needs to run its league as efficiently as possible, as in England, that would mean what it needs that EPL has is money which comes with healthy bussiness. But I repeat, it doesn't need NOTHING else, and in the vital part that is football, England needs lessons from Italy in every way (God I cant believe you really suggested long ball tactic as something to copy, they do it EVERYWHERE in the world were an incompetent simpleton runs a football team, tells you something of the capability's of those in charge of english football).
:rulz: :scarf: :burke:




WORD! WORD WORD!
 

Mafia

Pinturicchio
Jul 21, 2006
1,240
I watch and appreciate EPL as a football fan. But jump off the brainwashing capitalistic EPL asian bandwagon already, Lampard (Japan especially is the worst, in the gullible hype country of the world, which you are from). If Calcio needs to copy something from EPL, its how the MANAGE their league, bussiness wise and administratively. Some bozo got kicked off for life from anfield for trying to throw something at Neville recently, while in Calcio just one of many things being Lazio fans racially ABUSE their own players in pre-match songs. Calcio's infrastructure is amateurish and its because of how things Italy in general are. But when it comes to FOOTBALL, FRIGGING football, Italy doesnt need to copy a single thing from EPL and England. England football wise in their youth set-ups and football idea, coaches etc, are LACKING compared to the other big countries (listen to Wenger and wy he is forced to do what he does, listen to even Fergie who is buying top foreign talents because of the basic flaws of english football). Especially the most successful european football country in Italy. All of their EPLs are almost exlusively foreign, their basic grassroots youth setup has been left unattended by the same archaic english mentality, and by the same english coaches who arent good enough to coach their own league and NT.

You say Serie A should copy long ball football for some reason because EPL has 3 teams in semi, did you actually use the tiny thing between your ears when you said that? Its EPL and English football who has needed to foreign coaches to improve their basic football and catch up with the rest, english coaches from grassroots to the top has been abysmal and incompetent mofos who scold those who try to be creative and do the basics of actual football, and elevate those who run the hardest and kicks the hardest (they can keep the strong points to their football mentality, which is mainly strong mentality, physicality attitude, but need to copy and adapt for everything else).

I mean FFS, you have the nerve to suggest that, when the least of the problem italian football has is its football and its coaches (if antyhing, they coach too much, and give too much emphasizes on their tactical ideas, and you actually suggest they should adopt the most basic and retarded football tactic ever used by those who know nothing else, longball tactic is the desperate measure of simpletons who cant find any other solution). They have one of the greatest (if not the greatest) of coaches in the world, together with the dutch and few other top footballing countries. I mean, did you happen to notice WHO is Englands NT coach?


Seriously, basically its as simple as this, off the pitch stuff of football, from stadiums, revenue, administrative work, bussiness and football infrastructure in general, England are extremely capable on, and Italy TOTAL amateurs and worthless in. This is the only place Italy needs to take out the notebooks and learn. But when it comes to actual football, the FACT that English NT is totally worthless, while Italy is the most successful in Europe and second best in the world says a thing. Another is the fact ALL coaches in Serie A are italian except Hector Cuper (who wont have a job soon) says another thing. While in England respectively...well I dont need to tell you how many english coaches there are (all small team coaches except Everton and Newscastle basically).

Basically, Italy needs to run its league as efficiently as possible, as in England, that would mean what it needs that EPL has is money which comes with healthy bussiness. But I repeat, it doesn't need NOTHING else, and in the vital part that is football, England needs lessons from Italy in every way (God I cant believe you really suggested long ball tactic as something to copy, they do it EVERYWHERE in the world were an incompetent simpleton runs a football team, tells you something of the capability's of those in charge of english football).
Agreed, Italian football > English football
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,493
Well that is obvious Mafia, but I guess you can say that because we are dealing with someone who believes the English NT who my sweden triumphs over every time, and cant qualify from basic qfs, is better then the world champions. It takes alot of serious propoganda to believe that.

And no offense to asians in general, but I am not suprised the person saying it comes from southeast asia, where EPL proganda is tied with their globally massive commercialism (which we should applaude them for, good bussiness is good bussines), and because of that its home to one of the most ridicolously brainwashed "football" fans you can find. There are normal and real football fans too, but without stereotyping, football being new there, and the access and exposure all being EPL due to capitalism, I have encountered too many fans there in when visiting those regions, who would make Lampard's opinions of English football seem extremely modest and sane. Unbelieveably clueless stuff, their image of English football was Brazil times 3 (Most I wouldnt even bothering calling fans anyway, some ofcourse not only believed Beckham, the poster boy of capitalism, is better then Pele, but he still played in Man U "why would he need to leave the home of football?") . But bit redundant because it has really little to do with football, and is more about marketing (real asian football fans can see through it, but the brainwashing can be overwhelming), but just explaining an obvious aspect of the mentality Lampard is showing a little (Absolutely fine to be big big fan of English football, but takes a certain kind of brainwashing to think Englands NT is despite it all, better then the 4 times world champions).


Btw, mafia, its important to distinct english football from EPL, not that I would think you need that distinction. I think French (best youth setups in the world, the english just now started to copy them) and German Football (declined, but still über masters of Europe) are obviously better then English football, but obviously they are nothing compared to EPL etc.
 

Mafia

Pinturicchio
Jul 21, 2006
1,240
Well that is obvious Mafia, but I guess you can say that because we are dealing with someone who believes the English NT who my sweden triumphs over every time, and cant qualify from basic qfs, is better then the world champions. It takes alot of serious propoganda to believe that.

And no offense to asians in general, but I am not suprised the person saying it comes from southeast asia, where EPL proganda is tied with their globally massive commercialism (which we should applaude them for, good bussiness is good bussines), and because of that its home to one of the most ridicolously brainwashed "football" fans you can find. There are normal and real football fans too, but without stereotyping, football being new there, and the access and exposure all being EPL due to capitalism, I have encountered enough of fans there in when visiting those regions, who would make Lampard's opinions of English football seem extremely modest and sane. Unbelieveably clueless stuff (Most I wouldnt even bothering calling fans anyway, some ofcourse not only believed Beckham, the poster boy of capitalism, is better then Pele, but he still played in Man U) .


Btw, mafia, its important to distinct english football from EPL, not that I would think you need that distinction. I think French (best youth setups in the world, the english just now started to copy them) and German Football (declined, but still über masters of Europe) are obviously better then English football, but obviously they are nothing compared to EPL etc.
lol, i didnt see the guys post who u were replying to but if he rates the NT of england more than the NT of Italy then thats hilarious. If he were to say the EPL is doing better than Seria A at the moment, that would be understandable, but to say England is better than Italy in terms of National football, thats ridiculous.
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,493
You missed the below post? Understandable, he is saying it almost like he is hush hush ashamed of it, and knows its really really bizzare notion (one that reality has kicked in the nuts enough to feel something is just not right), but he JUST has to say it anyway, even if trying to pass it off in a low key and vague way, the sentiment is there.

He is sure many will disagree (he is not really a dedicated full on brainwashed mofo, its his way of more or less saying he knows he is wrong), but hey its fine, thats what he THINKS (like the word itself makes it all make sense). Wonder what kind of thinking was applied for this notion.

Also i think england for me had better team than italians, but they had wrong coach ..
Im sure many will disagree, but hey , that is what i think..
 

Mafia

Pinturicchio
Jul 21, 2006
1,240
Ah ok i see, not sure exactly how he came to that conclusion considering Italy's recent performances over the years, i guess if he was basing it off of big name players or something, then the England NT would be more known than the Italian NT to casual fans, but there's no way England is up to Italy's level. No offense meant towards anyone though, im just not sure how he came upon this idea.
 

Quetzalcoatl

It ain't hard to tell
Aug 22, 2007
66,758
ßöмßäяðîëя;1626568 said:
(Just to correct you before he sees, but he's from Croatia or Serbia, some Balkan country, but he lives in Tokyo because his wife is a big dumb Jap.)

(PS - He can't see my posts because I'm on his ignore list.)
sweet
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,493
English players would be more known because of its Global Anglo media. Easier to market when the world is your oyster (regardless of how bad, the league and the NT doesnt need to perform to be in easy access to the whole world). But any, regardless of how casual footie fan, would know Italy has produced tons more talents in general throughout. Even if England has for its standards, churned out a good generation of top players.

But when it comes to Italy, by League, it says enough that Serie A has had 18 Balon D'Or winners throughout history, while English league has had 5 (not to rub it in, but the only recent one is the highly disputed winner that was Owen, second most recent is 70's Keegan) .
 

Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
61,493
ßöмßäяðîëя;1626568 said:
(Just to correct you before he sees, but he's from Croatia or Serbia, some Balkan country, but he lives in Tokyo because his wife is a big dumb Jap.)

(PS - He can't see my posts because I'm on his ignore list.)
Oh Swell, well my point stands when it comes to the brainwashing in southeast asia.

But I was in a way trying to understand or excuse why he would have that warped notion. But it doesnt apply to him then (he is originally closer to Italy by a tiny coast, then just having all access to anglo dominated exposure), that means he is a regular ol' clueless mofo?


Btw, Burke, I know you arent serious (and I get the fun of risque jokes), but no need to go personal to the point of insulting his wife regardless of how unserious you mean it. Really uncool and even if he doesnt take offense, you should know its really unnecessary low.
 

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