[CL] Olympiacos 1-0 JUVENTUS (October 22nd 2014) (61 Viewers)

[Hust]

Fixing our formation AT THE VERY LEAST will give us a new element of unpredictability and solidifies our defense. Between Vidal, Marchisio, Asamoah and Pogba we have one of the best mids in Europe (certainly in our group). Our movement and flow has ALWAYS been better with a back 4 and mostly when used in a 433. The fact we keep asking two players that aren't wing backs to play as a wingback is only going to make us suffer with a lack of ideas. We waste too much time playing keep away between our CB's and our wing backs, which is why you often see our CB's hoof the ball up to the strikers which we either lose because of height differences or Llorente's hee-haw touches.

We need to keep the fucking ball on the ground and let our amazing midfield connect the dots between defense and attack. Enough of this fucking 5 defenders and a slow as CM offering little to us at this point. Grow a set of balls and get more attack minded players on the field FROM THE START.

Fixing the formation will greatly improve our play and when our play improves you will see the psychological aspect of our game improve as our players confidence grows.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[blondu]

Waste of time calling for new owners and presumably Man City-style spending (that highly successful European team with playmakers and wingers) when we can't get the best out of the players we already have.

Our problems are in terms of our footballing philosophy, and how it has now started to hinder us mentality. There are negatives to every style of play, but it's been obvious for some time now that we need to switch up how proactive we are in European games.

Having said that it seems obvious that Allegri would keep our 3-5-2 for the two toughest fixtures in the group phase. As it stands we only failed miserably for one game (or ½/¾ of a game), but again it has piled pressure on us. The Olympiakos return game is a perfect example to change our philosophy going forward.

why? why would he or conte stop being so stubborn and try a game with a different attitude and formation? if we don't win at home we're lost...it's the same situation as the game at home vs benfica..we did that gk a hero too

 

[Hust]

why? why would he or conte stop being so stubborn and try a game with a different attitude and formation? if we don't win at home we're lost...it's the same situation as the game at home vs benfica..we did that gk a hero too

Stick a fork in the CL, it's done for this season. At this point I'm more worried about finishing the league on a strong note. We can pretty much kiss the CL money goodbye for next season (hopefully the sponsorship money kicks in) so we need to at least finish strong so we can try and protect our image for getting new players signed on for the "project".

We need a new formation and practice with it.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Too many keep talking about 3-5-2 and tactics, is Juve seriously not capable of AT LEAST drawing 3rd positioned team in Greek Super league???? Do you REALLY think 3-5-2 is the reason a team like Juve can't beat an average/modest individual players like Kasami, Mitroglou, Maniatis and the rest of their squad? It's not the 3-5-2 that is costing Juve, it's the poor mentality as simple as that.

I agree, this formation and tactics should be changed ASAP and specially when facing experienced 1st class teams, but to beat the likes of Malmo, Olympiacos, Galatasaray you need the right mentality. Vidal, Pogba, Pirlo, Tevez and the rest were representing Genoa or Lecce and not Juventus. You don't fvcking go as the under dog in Greece and allow Olympiacos so much space to attack you.

I couldn't stand Conte for his chicken mind giving up mentality before competition even kicked off. Allegri better change the mentality of the players before the fvcking silly formation most of you are blaming.

I do think that the tactics are the main reason behind all this (by saying tactics I mean more than just a formation). I think the whole "mentality" thing is blown out of proportion. It's not like our players don't run or don't try to win the game. They're professionals and they're not afraid of Greek champions I'm telling you. They're simply not prepared properly for the game and that's it. I think this Juve team is very unbalanced and that's why it's so hard for us to achieve anything in Europe (where the quality is much higher than in Serie A which means tactical details really matter).

I think it's all about setup. The players started deep trying to be cautious but it's obvious it's coach's instruction to start like this. Conte is Italian, so is Allegri and Italians tend to do so. Look at Roma for example - they tried to attack Bayern from the beginning because Garcia is like this. He's not a defensive minded Italian coach so even though his Roma is an Italian club they're different to us. It's very true that a team is like a mirror of its coach and you have to look at it this way.

The thing is the team Allegri inherited from Conte is a strongly defensive minded one. Allegri didn't make too many changes so it's pretty much still Conte's Juve. Don't be fooled by Serie A performances and average possession against Serie A minnows. Conte was always happy to give the possession away against stronger teams even if those weren't stronger than Juve (like Napoli or Milan). If some have doubts about my statement (that the team is too defensive and unbalanced, take a look at this):

Buffon
Ogbonna - Bonucci - Chiellini
Licht - Vidal - Pirlo - Pogba - Asamoah
Morata - Tevez
​

That's the formation from yesterday's game. Notice how many defensive and offensive players we usually field. GK + 3CBs + 2 wingbacks that can defend but connot actually attack. When Pirlo is on the field both Pogba and Vidal are very limited in attack because they have to make cover for him (at least one has to stay near him at a time). It often leaves Morata and Tevez left on their own, separated from the midfield. In Seire A it's enough most of the time but in Europe it's too few and that's why opponents get so easy territorial advantage over Juve. 2 CBs, a fullback and a DM usually is enough to cover them, because they're left on their own.

This is Bayern vs Roma (they looked like that, correct me if I made a mistake somehwere):

Neuer
Benatia - Boateng - Alaba
Robben - Lahm - Alonso - Gotze - Bernat
Lewandowski - Muller​

I'm not going to compare the teams player by player because it doesn't make sense but notice the fact their team is much better balanced than ours. In our formation you can say we have at least 5 players defensive minded (not counting GK) who don't really offer anything in attack: 3 Cbs + wingacks. You could argue if Vidal and Pogba are offensive or defensive minded, but with Pirlo on the pitch they aren't attacking ones definitely. Bayern has definitely less defensive players but they still have a very balanced team. I count it like this: Benatia, Boateng, Alaba and Lahm are definitely defensive minded but Lahm and Alaba can offer something up front too. They place Robben as wingback (on paper because in practice Lahm is covering his side) and Goetze as CM. It gives them a lot of creativity which we lack, because we have so many defensive players. It doesn't surprise me when I see Juve is not pushing forward after conceding a goal, because we have no players to do it. Who's supposed to do it? All our CBs are slow and unproductive and wingbacks are actually good only at defending. If you add to that Pogba and Vidal having to cover the middle it just leaves Tevez and Morata responsible for attacking.

To sum it up: formation change won't do much if the personnel stays the same. We need to change tactics to take some effect and it includes new players in starting 11. Above all we need to find balance between attacking and defending. Along with it we have to get used to new system. It' not enough to try it out once a month for 15 minutes when you're a goal or two down. Players within the new system have to get new habits because many things they do automatically, they have to know what to do, especially when they're under pressure. Along with those changes the style has to be changed as well. The players have to improve passing and movement first of all IMO. Notice how Juve transitions from defense to attack and compare it to Roma for example. They do it more accurate and way faster than us.

To achieve this things I think we'll need a new coach because I don't think allegri is capable of it. It'd be good if he started implementing something new though. Someone like Bielsa would really improve our attacking game from tactical point of view but also personal. Right now everyone except Tevez is looking for Pirlo which could be difficult to unlearn.

For the moment I see our best starting 11 like this:

Buffon
Licht - Bonucci - Chiellini - Asamoah
Vidal - Marchisio - Pogba
Pereyra - Morata - Tevez​

IMO it's worth considering what is unneeded right now to release some resources:
1. A third CB. Especially if it's Ogbonna. It's better to play a compact back 4 because Ogbonna is not really a spectacular defender nor he offers anything going forward. He often plays close to the sideline and I think Licht will do better there.
2. Regista. Especially if it's Pirlo. He's out of form and it seems he's not up for it anymore. He's not offering the service he used to and instead he seems to be an even bigger liability than ever. He should be benched and Marchisio has been in a very good form since the start of the season so that's not a problem.
3. Overall the idea of 3 CBs and 3 CMs on the pitch at a time. It reduces the pace of the team because the players are too close to each other and aren't making runs into holes; That's why we can't counter attack or even make a transition from defense to attack fast enough.

I accommodated Pereyra in starting 11 because I think he's the best offensive player we have on the bench right now. He can make runs and crossing as well as taking on defenders. he's quite a direct and fast player so he really should help there.We need better but for now we have to cope with what we have. The most important thing is to start making changes instead of staying conservative because "we have no options".

Best Juve ever is 95-99. The one from 02/03 was good, but that choke in the final was just beyond words. We are still suffering the consequences from that defeat IMO.

How? The only man that remembers that final is Buffon. It was 11 years ago and the club is completely different in comparison to that time.

 

[Hydde]

Hydde, the absence of Nedved is not an excuse for choking the biggest game in such digusting fashion. Even without him we were so much better than that mediocre Milan(I know many will disagree, but they were really mediocre). It was a very good team, but I always get a little annoyed when Juve fans protray it as a Dream Team, when we couldn't even win a CL. The other seasons we didn't do anything in Europe. It's indicative of our mentality towards Europeand how we are content with just being good, rather than the best as it should be.

Lets say we disagree here.
In reality we were nothing out of the ordinary either technically speaking.
We had some workhorses in that team, Trezeguet was good like always and DP was not having the best form of his career. Outside of a very young Camo, we only had Nedved and Zambrotta who were outstanding. But the machine of that team was Nedved, he was the one who raised the level of the rest, and even gave that sense of "we can win this".
All our games against the top teams we left in the way were grindfests, with the only exception being the game against Madrid where we played our top game of that season, (and even then we were one palm away of being eleminated but Buff saved us).

You took him out, and without his guidance, we were on par with Milan. Conte was simply not enought to cover his absence.
We should have won me thinks, as we were also unlucky wih a Conte´s post, but if nedved was there, we would have destroyed the, Im pretty sure of it.

 

[jukazem]

That's the formation from yesterday's game. Notice how many defensive and offensive players we usually field. GK + 3CBs + 2 wingbacks that can defend but connot actually attack. When Pirlo is on the field both Pogba and Vidal are very limited in attack because they have to make cover for him (at least one has to stay near him at a time). It often leaves Morata and Tevez left on their own, separated from the midfield. In Seire A it's enough most of the time but in Europe it's too few and that's why opponents get so easy territorial advantage over Juve. 2 CBs, a fullback and a DM usually is enough to cover them, because they're left on their own.

This is Bayern vs Roma (they looked like that, correct me if I made a mistake somehwere):

Neuer
Benatia - Boateng - Alaba
Robben - Lahm - Alonso - Gotze - Bernat
Lewandowski - Muller​

I'm not going to compare the teams player by player because it doesn't make sense but notice the fact their team is much better balanced than ours. In our formation you can say we have at least 5 players defensive minded (not counting GK) who don't really offer anything in attack: 3 Cbs + wingacks. You could argue if Vidal and Pogba are offensive or defensive minded, but with Pirlo on the pitch they aren't attacking ones definitely. Bayern has definitely less defensive players but they still have a very balanced team. I count it like this: Benatia, Boateng, Alaba and Lahm are definitely defensive minded but Lahm and Alaba can offer something up front too. They place Robben as wingback (on paper because in practice Lahm is covering his side) and Goetze as CM. It gives them a lot of creativity which we lack, because we have so many defensive players. It doesn't surprise me when I see Juve is not pushing forward after conceding a goal, because we have no players to do it. Who's supposed to do it? All our CBs are slow and unproductive and wingbacks are actually good only at defending. If you add to that Pogba and Vidal having to cover the middle it just leaves Tevez and Morata responsible for attacking.

I see Bayern recently more like 3-4-3

Neuer
Benatia - Boateng - Alaba
Lahm - Alonso - Muller - Bernat
Robben - Lewandowski - Gotze​

sometimes switching mid-game to 4-2-3-1

Neuer
Lahm - Benatia - Boateng - Bernat
Alonso - Alaba
Robben - Muller - Gotze
Lewandowski​

sometimes even 4-1-4-1, depending on need and where Alaba and Muller is on the pitch, recently Alaba has been playing like a libero imo...

Neuer
Lahm - Benatia - Boateng - Bernat
Alonso - Alaba
Robben - Muller - Alaba - Gotze
Lewandowski​

which makes them very adaptable to circumstances when they need to press high or hold off pressure from opponents.

Juve's 3-5-2 formation isn't flexible at all and usually don't respond to circumstances until the subs kick in after the hour mark. I was hoping for more flexibility from Allegri, from all the tactical genius talk I was hearing/reading.

 

[zizinho]

I do think that the tactics are the main reason behind all this (by saying tactics I mean more than just a formation). I think the whole "mentality" thing is blown out of proportion. It's not like our players don't run or don't try to win the game. They're professionals and they're not afraid of Greek champions I'm telling you. They're simply not prepared properly for the game and that's it. I think this Juve team is very unbalanced and that's why it's so hard for us to achieve anything in Europe (where the quality is much higher than in Serie A which means tactical details really matter).

I think it's all about setup. The players started deep trying to be cautious but it's obvious it's coach's instruction to start like this. Conte is Italian, so is Allegri and Italians tend to do so. Look at Roma for example - they tried to attack Bayern from the beginning because Garcia is like this. He's not a defensive minded Italian coach so even though his Roma is an Italian club they're different to us. It's very true that a team is like a mirror of its coach and you have to look at it this way.

The thing is the team Allegri inherited from Conte is a strongly defensive minded one. Allegri didn't make too many changes so it's pretty much still Conte's Juve. Don't be fooled by Serie A performances and average possession against Serie A minnows. Conte was always happy to give the possession away against stronger teams even if those weren't stronger than Juve (like Napoli or Milan). If some have doubts about my statement (that the team is too defensive and unbalanced, take a look at this):

Buffon
Ogbonna - Bonucci - Chiellini
Licht - Vidal - Pirlo - Pogba - Asamoah
Morata - Tevez
​

That's the formation from yesterday's game. Notice how many defensive and offensive players we usually field. GK + 3CBs + 2 wingbacks that can defend but connot actually attack. When Pirlo is on the field both Pogba and Vidal are very limited in attack because they have to make cover for him (at least one has to stay near him at a time). It often leaves Morata and Tevez left on their own, separated from the midfield. In Seire A it's enough most of the time but in Europe it's too few and that's why opponents get so easy territorial advantage over Juve. 2 CBs, a fullback and a DM usually is enough to cover them, because they're left on their own.

This is Bayern vs Roma (they looked like that, correct me if I made a mistake somehwere):

Neuer
Benatia - Boateng - Alaba
Robben - Lahm - Alonso - Gotze - Bernat
Lewandowski - Muller​

I'm not going to compare the teams player by player because it doesn't make sense but notice the fact their team is much better balanced than ours. In our formation you can say we have at least 5 players defensive minded (not counting GK) who don't really offer anything in attack: 3 Cbs + wingacks. You could argue if Vidal and Pogba are offensive or defensive minded, but with Pirlo on the pitch they aren't attacking ones definitely. Bayern has definitely less defensive players but they still have a very balanced team. I count it like this: Benatia, Boateng, Alaba and Lahm are definitely defensive minded but Lahm and Alaba can offer something up front too. They place Robben as wingback (on paper because in practice Lahm is covering his side) and Goetze as CM. It gives them a lot of creativity which we lack, because we have so many defensive players. It doesn't surprise me when I see Juve is not pushing forward after conceding a goal, because we have no players to do it. Who's supposed to do it? All our CBs are slow and unproductive and wingbacks are actually good only at defending. If you add to that Pogba and Vidal having to cover the middle it just leaves Tevez and Morata responsible for attacking.

To sum it up: formation change won't do much if the personnel stays the same. We need to change tactics to take some effect and it includes new players in starting 11. Above all we need to find balance between attacking and defending. Along with it we have to get used to new system. It' not enough to try it out once a month for 15 minutes when you're a goal or two down. Players within the new system have to get new habits because many things they do automatically, they have to know what to do, especially when they're under pressure. Along with those changes the style has to be changed as well. The players have to improve passing and movement first of all IMO. Notice how Juve transitions from defense to attack and compare it to Roma for example. They do it more accurate and way faster than us.

To achieve this things I think we'll need a new coach because I don't think allegri is capable of it. It'd be good if he started implementing something new though. Someone like Bielsa would really improve our attacking game from tactical point of view but also personal. Right now everyone except Tevez is looking for Pirlo which could be difficult to unlearn.

For the moment I see our best starting 11 like this:

Buffon
Licht - Bonucci - Chiellini - Asamoah
Vidal - Marchisio - Pogba
Pereyra - Morata - Tevez​

IMO it's worth considering what is unneeded right now to release some resources:
1. A third CB. Especially if it's Ogbonna. It's better to play a compact back 4 because Ogbonna is not really a spectacular defender nor he offers anything going forward. He often plays close to the sideline and I think Licht will do better there.
2. Regista. Especially if it's Pirlo. He's out of form and it seems he's not up for it anymore. He's not offering the service he used to and instead he seems to be an even bigger liability than ever. He should be benched and Marchisio has been in a very good form since the start of the season so that's not a problem.
3. Overall the idea of 3 CBs and 3 CMs on the pitch at a time. It reduces the pace of the team because the players are too close to each other and aren't making runs into holes; That's why we can't counter attack or even make a transition from defense to attack fast enough.

I accommodated Pereyra in starting 11 because I think he's the best offensive player we have on the bench right now. He can make runs and crossing as well as taking on defenders. he's quite a direct and fast player so he really should help there.We need better but for now we have to cope with what we have. The most important thing is to start making changes instead of staying conservative because "we have no options".

i agree 100%. especially with the bolded part (thought it will be more of a 4-3-2-1 than a clasic 4-3-3). this is the best we have atm and we should start playing this as soon as possible. and one more thing. whit this formation Coman has way more opportunities to play (and more importantly, in his natural role, and we should start playing him more and more as season progresses and see if he has what it takes to become starter for us in the near future). generally, if we look at the players we have, this formation suits us more than the 3-5-2 as it takes out the best out of our best players.

 

[JCK]

Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

[swag]

 

[LiquidPLP]

I see Bayern recently more like 3-4-3

Neuer
Benatia - Boateng - Alaba
Lahm - Alonso - Muller - Bernat
Robben - Lewandowski - Gotze​

sometimes switching mid-game to 4-2-3-1

Neuer
Lahm - Benatia - Boateng - Bernat
Alonso - Alaba
Robben - Muller - Gotze
Lewandowski​

sometimes even 4-1-4-1, depending on need and where Alaba and Muller is on the pitch, recently Alaba has been playing like a libero imo...

Neuer
Lahm - Benatia - Boateng - Bernat
Alonso - Alaba
Robben - Muller - Alaba - Gotze
Lewandowski​

which makes them very adaptable to circumstances when they need to press high or hold off pressure from opponents.

Juve's 3-5-2 formation isn't flexible at all and usually don't respond to circumstances until the subs kick in after the hour mark. I was hoping for more flexibility from Allegri, from all the tactical genius talk I was hearing/reading.

Well I had difficulties with putting Bayern's team on paper as they're a very flexible team as you just said. Juve is too conservative in this aspect and it makes us predictable while they're very far from it. While writing the post above I meant this.

i agree 100%. especially with the bolded part (thought it will be more of a 4-3-2-1 than a clasic 4-3-3). this is the best we have atm and we should start playing this as soon as possible. and one more thing. whit this formation Coman has way more opportunities to play (and more importantly, in his natural role, and we should start playing him more and more as season progresses and see if he has what it takes to become starter for us in the near future). generally, if we look at the players we have, this formation suits us more than the 3-5-2 as it takes out the best out of our best players.

Agreed. I also think that this formation suits our player better than the current 352.
It's better to invest some minutes in Coman than sticking to Pirlo without form and Giovinco out of position. Hell maybe even Giovinco could finally produce something in the new system (I still think we shouldn't renew him tho).

Llorente played his whole life in 433, maybe even he could pick himself up that way.

 

[Hydde]

It's not like our players don't run or don't try to win the game. They're professionals and they're not afraid of Greek champions I'm telling you. They're simply not prepared properly for the game and that's it. I think this Juve team is very unbalanced and that's why it's so hard for us to achieve anything in Europe (where the quality is much higher than in Serie A which means tactical details really matter)

Buffon
Licht - Bonucci - Chiellini - Asamoah
Vidal - Marchisio - Pogba
Pereyra - Morata - Tevez

This is the best we can do for now. Mix up Tevez and Prereya with Gio and coman when needed. Llorente and Morata share spoils depending on form. And thats that.

To sum it up: formation change won't do much if the personnel stays the same. We need to change tactics to take some effect and it includes new players in starting 11. Above all we need to find balance between attacking and defending. Along with it we have to get used to new system. It' not enough to try it out once a month for 15 minutes when you're a goal or two down. Players within the new system have to get new habits because many things they do automatically, they have to know what to do, especially when they're under pressure. Along with those changes the style has to be changed as well. The players have to improve passing and movement first of all IMO. Notice how Juve transitions from defense to attack and compare it to Roma for example. They do it more accurate and way faster than us.

To achieve this things I think we'll need a new coach because I don't think allegri is capable of it. It'd be good if he started implementing something new though. Someone like Bielsa would really improve our attacking game from tactical point of view but also personal. Right now everyone except Tevez is looking for Pirlo which could be difficult to unlearn.

It would have been optimal to try this in preseason. But it was scrapped pretty fast after Allegri tasted the sweetness of the 352 in Serie A. Now...welll i dont know what will happen.

My hope is that yesterday´s game caused enought turbulence in the whole team, management included... that some action will be taken.

And yes, it seems we need to scrap italian coaches altogether. At the very least, the ones older (the delneris and mancinis) and the ones who have unshakeable italian roots (Conte).
This, or go and find an attacking minded foreign coach who could be able to also set up properly our defence.

 

[samfisher5]

Lets say we disagree here.
In reality we were nothing out of the ordinary either technically speaking.
We had some workhorses in that team, Trezeguet was good like always and DP was not having the best form of his career. Outside of a very young Camo, we only had Nedved and Zambrotta who were outstanding. But the machine of that team was Nedved, he was the one who raised the level of the rest, and even gave that sense of "we can win this".
All our games against the top teams we left in the way were grindfests, with the only exception being the game against Madrid where we played our top game of that season, (and even then we were one palm away of being eleminated but Buff saved us).

You took him out, and without his guidance, we were on par with Milan. Conte was simply not enought to cover his absence.
We should have won me thinks, as we were also unlucky wih a Conte´s post, but if nedved was there, we would have destroyed the, Im pretty sure of it.

Nah man, there was genuine quality in that team all over the place. Buffon at his peak, Thuram, Davids, Nedved, Del Piero was still very strong, Trezeguet, Zambrotta, Camoranesi and some pretty decent players like Ferrara(still quite good imo), Montero was not very bad, Tacchinardi, Di Vaio. Maybe there weren't a lot of opitons on the bench( I didn't like Zalayeta for example), but it was definitely the best team in Europe in that season. Remember that RM were like a Dream Team then and we totally outplayed them. The reason we lost the final was only nerves and nothing else, Nedved is just an excuse.

 

[Hydde]

Nah man, there was genuine quality in that team all over the place. Buffon at his peak, Thuram, Davids, Nedved, Del Piero was still very strong, Trezeguet, Zambrotta, Camoranesi and some pretty decent players like Ferrara(still quite good imo), Montero was not very bad, Tacchinardi, Di Vaio. Maybe there weren't a lot of opitons on the bench( I didn't like Zalayeta for example), but it was definitely the best team in Europe in that season. Remember that RM were like a Dream Team then and we totally outplayed them. The reason we lost the final was only nerves and nothing else, Nedved is just an excuse.

On paper yes, we had quality, but make no mistake...we werent an attacking minded powerhouse. We had like a better version of what we have now. A good balance of defensive minded players mixed with real offensive quality in Trez, DP and nedved.

Madrid was much better at going forward than us, but their defence was shaky and we were more compact as a whole. Also that team was made to be almost a circus set by Florentino. Del bosque did wonders setting up all those attacking players and unbalanced defense. Also Zidane helped a lot. But both teams were pretty equal and fought till the end. We didnt "totally outplayed" them, it was pretty close. And again..that madrid team were unbalanced in the back with an old hierro leading the line. We punced hardcore on that and their lack of really good defending... unlike us with our top world class defence.

 

[Alex-444]

Coincidence? I don't think so.

:rndh:

 

[Boksic]

I am more than happy to try a 4-3-3, I think a bit of freshness could do us good.

But I think people should be wary that it is not the answer to all our problems.

Would a 4-3-3 have prevented Pirlo from passing straight to the opposition inside our own half and would it make Ogbonna stop ball watching? Yes I know Ogbonna probably wouldn't start but then we have a lot more pressure on Bonucci to defend properly.

I still think the main problem is mentality and quality in key areas.

The other problem of 4-3-3 is that we are not built for it. Tevez is not a winger, Asamoah is not a LB and there are questions over whether Pereyra has the quality to make the difference consistently as a RW.

 

[Eddy]

B I E L S A H Y P E

 

[Hydde]

I am more than happy to try a 4-3-3, I think a bit of freshness could do us good.

But I think people should be wary that it is not the answer to all our problems.

Would a 4-3-3 have prevented Pirlo from passing straight to the opposition inside our own half and would it make Ogbonna stop ball watching? Yes I know Ogbonna probably wouldn't start but then we have a lot more pressure on Bonucci to defend properly.

I still think the main problem is mentality and quality in key areas.

The other problem of 4-3-3 is that we are not built for it. Tevez is not a winger, Asamoah is not a LB and there are questions over whether Pereyra has the quality to make the difference consistently as a RW.

Tevez woukd need to adapt.
And Asamoah has played as wingback which is even more demanding than playing LB. He can adapt easily to that position. h just needs to defend

 

[satfootball]

the problem isnot system.

the problem is lack of courage, speed, pace, being explosive and presenting slow motion football....

 

[zizinho]

I am more than happy to try a 4-3-3, I think a bit of freshness could do us good.

But I think people should be wary that it is not the answer to all our problems.

Would a 4-3-3 have prevented Pirlo from passing straight to the opposition inside our own half and would it make Ogbonna stop ball watching? Yes I know Ogbonna probably wouldn't start but then we have a lot more pressure on Bonucci to defend properly.

I still think the main problem is mentality and quality in key areas.

The other problem of 4-3-3 is that we are not built for it. Tevez is not a winger, Asamoah is not a LB and there are questions over whether Pereyra has the quality to make the difference consistently as a RW.

i think it wont be a real 4-3-3. it will be more like a 4-3-2-1 with Pereyra and Tevez in free roles. also, we'd have Coman and Gio coming off the bench if Pereyra has an off day. we can even field both Morata and Llorente with either one of those against smaller teams. there is also the possibility of signing an additional winger/AM in January... its not like Pereyra is gonna play all matches as a starter

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

I don't want to offend anyone personally but Juventus are the disgrace of Italy. You blame anyone but yourselves. How do you expect to improve when you always blame others? Milan was like 12th in the league and they still made it past a harder group than yours. Napoli beat all of Dortmund, Marseille, and Arsenal at home in their 1st year in CL.

The problem is that your team plays slow, lethargic, disgusting football that is made to win 1-0 with ref help. When you realize Lichtsteiner and Asamoah aren't Ronaldo and Bale maybe you can make some progress.

You can blame Roma all you want, but Roma destroyed CSKA 5-1, something you would NEVER in a lifetime do with this 3-5-2 shit, and went head to head with Man City away. All Roma has to do is park the bus next game like CSKA did vs Bayern, and they are set. They simply made a mistake by trying to attack Bayern just like Barca did a while back. But at least they have the wingers to counterattack. You dont.

"You blame everyone but yourselves"

We blame Juve 400 times a day here so take that nonsense and fuck off back to the rat hole you came from you cunt.