CL: Juventus - Real Madrid (58 Viewers)
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++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Did you go into a coma when Carlos's goal was allowed 
They won 2-1 , if you do not know and 0-0 will put us out
Fantastita, I have followed Dp from when I first noticed him against Eintracht Frankfurt in uefa where he overshadowed everyone, then Cl where he scored breathtaking goals against Dortmund in Germany, Steaua Bucharest in Turin and nutmegged Cleland of Rangers who was so embarassed he kicked and promptly got a red card, and I can assure you the similarities between that player and the impostor I have been watching from the Roma game to Barcelona home and away,Brescia , Lazio and last night is too vast for comfort
He can no llonger it seems strike the ball well, his freekicks are now so awful, corner kics the same, cannot pass the ball, no speed , always hesitant, slows down the pace of attack and he seems generally uninterested, its frightnening
I am not sure but I think something is wrong in his personal life with champs on the field, the whole world watching, he put up an anaemic display
Maybe I am expecting too much from him
Did you go into a coma when Carlos's goal was allowed They won 2-1 , if you do not know and 0-0 will put us out
Fantastita, I have followed Dp from when I first noticed him against Eintracht Frankfurt in uefa where he overshadowed everyone, then Cl where he scored breathtaking goals against Dortmund in Germany, Steaua Bucharest in Turin and nutmegged Cleland of Rangers who was so embarassed he kicked and promptly got a red card
, and I can assure you the similarities between that player and the impostor I have been watching from the Roma game to Barcelona home and away,Brescia , Lazio and last night is too vast for comfortHe can no llonger it seems strike the ball well, his freekicks are now so awful, corner kics the same, cannot pass the ball, no speed , always hesitant, slows down the pace of attack and he seems generally uninterested, its frightnening
I am not sure but I think something is wrong in his personal life with champs on the field, the whole world watching, he put up an anaemic display
Maybe I am expecting too much from him
The point is that peaple use to overrate him when he play an anonimous match but maybe score a goal, even if it comes 4 a very lucky touch from a defender and to be too disappointed when he play the same but do not score...
Yesterday he was not awful, he didn't commited so crucial mistakes, he just played like usual but didn't score, also cause he had not more than 2 occasions.
Nedved was not in a wonderful day and btw we were playing in Madrid, so is not so strange that DP and Treze had not so many good balls, luckyly one of tham went in the net...
Of course we need a different match if we want to win in Turin, and hopfuly one of ouers player have to put the ball the net, if it will be Trze, DP, Nedved or who else is the same the point is that all the team must play well!
++ [ originally posted by Alex ] ++
Don't be so hard on yourself
I think it's because he's a player a lot of people always wanted to succeed, perhaps due to giving up Baggio as well. Del Piero is a player we like and we'd like him to be the best even though he isn't (or at least rarely is).
Don't be so hard on yourself
I think it's because he's a player a lot of people always wanted to succeed, perhaps due to giving up Baggio as well. Del Piero is a player we like and we'd like him to be the best even though he isn't (or at least rarely is).
Is not to compare with Baggio (or Nedved) or players who are who make the team playing.
IMO his not so good match depend mostly on Neved prestation, and on the fact that all the mieldfield was in difficolty vs Figo, Zidane and co...
btw I was more disappointed about Camo, than about Del Piero. I'm worry that the problems he is having with his contract are afflicting him...
It annoys me how people can change their minds damn quick
Del Piero hasn't played well at all last night,but is it a reason to accuse him of being overrated and unexceptional?
I think you forgot his extraordinary first half of the season and that he just got out of his latest injury.Yet,if there are no excuses
when the best juve man plays that bad,it can never allow anyone to question his skils so harshly.
Mr Mate,you should really wonder whether DP is as ordinary as you think (which would explain why it didn't work out last night)
or if the problem is elsewhere.Our midfield is so miserable that I can't stand seeing every opinion focus on DP's performance as the miracle is always to be made by that player..
Let me remind that our worst season in a DECADE which was in 98/99 had seen DP seriously injured.Where was ZZ the fresh golden ball winner?
Saying that DP's exploits were due to luck is simply unacceptable.
So many other fools are thrust into prominence even though they surely do not deserve such attention.
I'm not sayong this because I like DP or because I'm bitter about all the mess around him and juve,I simply try to understand some absurd prejudices and fake arguments.
Besides that let me say that I expect much from Juve and especially DP in the next showdown,but get this:expecting DP to be exceptional has never been and will never be "too much".
We'll see.
Del Piero hasn't played well at all last night,but is it a reason to accuse him of being overrated and unexceptional?
I think you forgot his extraordinary first half of the season and that he just got out of his latest injury.Yet,if there are no excuses
when the best juve man plays that bad,it can never allow anyone to question his skils so harshly.
Mr Mate,you should really wonder whether DP is as ordinary as you think (which would explain why it didn't work out last night)
or if the problem is elsewhere.Our midfield is so miserable that I can't stand seeing every opinion focus on DP's performance as the miracle is always to be made by that player..
Let me remind that our worst season in a DECADE which was in 98/99 had seen DP seriously injured.Where was ZZ the fresh golden ball winner?
Saying that DP's exploits were due to luck is simply unacceptable.
So many other fools are thrust into prominence even though they surely do not deserve such attention.
I'm not sayong this because I like DP or because I'm bitter about all the mess around him and juve,I simply try to understand some absurd prejudices and fake arguments.
Besides that let me say that I expect much from Juve and especially DP in the next showdown,but get this:expecting DP to be exceptional has never been and will never be "too much".
We'll see.
It is exately what i sayd, the problem was else weare, in the mieldfield. In the beginning of the season we were playing grate and he scored like crazy (but bear that it happened mostly with small teams) we cannot pretend him (or Treze) to score 2 goals when they have just a clear occasion each one.
What I think is that he was not amazing also vs Roma and Brescia, but he scored 2 goals each match and peaple overrated this cause he didn't see the ball 4 the all the rest of the match exately how is wrong to exagerate with the critics in matchs like yesterday.
Del Piero depend a lot on the team, he is not one of this player who win matchs alone so is not appropriate to exagerate with the good words after a match like Roma like it is it to be so disappointed in matchs like yesterday. The team has to be seen all togeder defence, mieldfield and attakk, and the mieldfield prestation afflict the fowards one.
I think the same also about Treze, without the goal his match wuould be considered like DP one, belive me.
What I think is that he was not amazing also vs Roma and Brescia, but he scored 2 goals each match and peaple overrated this cause he didn't see the ball 4 the all the rest of the match exately how is wrong to exagerate with the critics in matchs like yesterday.
Del Piero depend a lot on the team, he is not one of this player who win matchs alone so is not appropriate to exagerate with the good words after a match like Roma like it is it to be so disappointed in matchs like yesterday. The team has to be seen all togeder defence, mieldfield and attakk, and the mieldfield prestation afflict the fowards one.
I think the same also about Treze, without the goal his match wuould be considered like DP one, belive me.
I'm sick of some of you guys here. Why everyone put a blame on DP so much.
I watch the match for the 2nd time and he didn' t play that bad and doesn't deserve such harsh comment. Yes, he is slower and made some mistakes in controling the ball and scoring, but in fact others did too. No one blamed Zambo for losing many balls in the first half as he kept the ball too long or Nedved who also made some bad passes.
No one praised DP for a very good cross from the right to Nedved who shot wide. On one gives him a credit for finding a place for Tudor's pass, managed to pass Real defender and help produce juve's very important away goal. On one give him compliments when he received tha ball from Zambo, nicely chested down, turn and shoot the ball quick. Unluckily that it was blocked or it had a chance being a goal. Even two commentators from my local TV ( who seem to be Real's fans) said that it was a very beautiful play by DP.
Please stop being unfair to him. He is not my most favorite player in the juve team and I've never defended him before. But this thime I think you guys've gone too far.
The important thing is that i'm sure DP himself is tring hard to regain his form and to do that, he needs encouragement and support. Harsh criticisms don't help him but discourage him. I myself just want him to regain his form for the 2nd leg so juve can kick Real's aaasss....
Juveboy, It's a shame that juve has a supporter like you. Dare you deny that the coming scudetto is partly due to DP's contribution?
well...
Not a great deal to say as i cant be bothered to argue about it.... especially as i think i saw a very different game from the stands than many of you seem to have seen on the tv.
firstly.... i had forgotten jus how good a stadium that really is.... fantastic!!
those complaining about the way we played.... have you actually been watching juve play anytime in the last 20 years.... that was always gonna be the way we played... that is juve.
those that say we should have attacked.... again do you watch juve?
you also seem to have forgotten that we werent playing some serie c wannabes ,we were playing real madrid... probably the best team on the planet.
Personlly i was very happy with the performance... we were generally solid, probably unlucky not to score another and maybe the odd decision went against us, but thats football.
The criticism of dp i find over blown..... from the stands he appeared to play a good game (everyone else there was also in agreement).
What maybe you couldnt see on tv was his movement off the ball and how hard he worked tracking back.
My only dissapointment with dp was that he should have scored with one of his chances and he seemed a little nervous in the first half hour, but overall a good performance and as good as pretty much every other juve player.
You also dont mention the inneffectiveness of conte and tudor in the mid meaning that nedved and dp were playing too deep the whole game.... how can they create if there having to play in there own half all the time.Also not helped by his link man in nedved who had a very quiet night.
Yet for all the criticism you dont have a moan about nedved who was very poor and was also poor against roma, brescia , barca and lazio.
where as dp played well against brescia and most of the roma match and probably won us the league with his 4 goals.
Personally i dont blame nedved for the madrid game either as it came down to a poor midfield combo plus being against a very good side and also nedved obviously playing with a knee problem.
You also fail to moan about trez who was quieter than either nedved or del piero.... though strangely i even defend him as for once he tried and his movement was generally good.
You all forget these guys are human beings and you often seem to expect unbeleivable things from them.
And worse you seem to at the slightest thing turn on our players and forget the great things they have done for us.
Staying on dp... look at this season where he was great up until his injury, since he has been a bit on and off, but outside of barca and lazio(where noone played well) he has been solid, and i tell you if not for him there is no way in the world we would have come close to winning the league this term.... yet you all still like to ***** about him... unbeleivable!!
Anyway, to me a good performance, better than expected result and in a good place for the second leg.
My only dissapointments with this game were the tudor - conte mid which didnt work and camo's poor display... something that worries me slightly as its now been a long time since hes shown any sign of what he showed at the season opening... hopefully he will find his feet soon.
Anyway cant wait to be in turin for the next leg!!!
some of you should go see a juve game live..... serie a for me is the one league where you really need to see it in the stadium to truly appreciate it, you miss so much compared to other leagues when you watch on the tv.
Not a great deal to say as i cant be bothered to argue about it.... especially as i think i saw a very different game from the stands than many of you seem to have seen on the tv.
firstly.... i had forgotten jus how good a stadium that really is.... fantastic!!
those complaining about the way we played.... have you actually been watching juve play anytime in the last 20 years.... that was always gonna be the way we played... that is juve.
those that say we should have attacked.... again do you watch juve?
you also seem to have forgotten that we werent playing some serie c wannabes ,we were playing real madrid... probably the best team on the planet.
Personlly i was very happy with the performance... we were generally solid, probably unlucky not to score another and maybe the odd decision went against us, but thats football.
The criticism of dp i find over blown..... from the stands he appeared to play a good game (everyone else there was also in agreement).
What maybe you couldnt see on tv was his movement off the ball and how hard he worked tracking back.
My only dissapointment with dp was that he should have scored with one of his chances and he seemed a little nervous in the first half hour, but overall a good performance and as good as pretty much every other juve player.
You also dont mention the inneffectiveness of conte and tudor in the mid meaning that nedved and dp were playing too deep the whole game.... how can they create if there having to play in there own half all the time.Also not helped by his link man in nedved who had a very quiet night.
Yet for all the criticism you dont have a moan about nedved who was very poor and was also poor against roma, brescia , barca and lazio.
where as dp played well against brescia and most of the roma match and probably won us the league with his 4 goals.
Personally i dont blame nedved for the madrid game either as it came down to a poor midfield combo plus being against a very good side and also nedved obviously playing with a knee problem.
You also fail to moan about trez who was quieter than either nedved or del piero.... though strangely i even defend him as for once he tried and his movement was generally good.
You all forget these guys are human beings and you often seem to expect unbeleivable things from them.
And worse you seem to at the slightest thing turn on our players and forget the great things they have done for us.
Staying on dp... look at this season where he was great up until his injury, since he has been a bit on and off, but outside of barca and lazio(where noone played well) he has been solid, and i tell you if not for him there is no way in the world we would have come close to winning the league this term.... yet you all still like to ***** about him... unbeleivable!!
Anyway, to me a good performance, better than expected result and in a good place for the second leg.
My only dissapointments with this game were the tudor - conte mid which didnt work and camo's poor display... something that worries me slightly as its now been a long time since hes shown any sign of what he showed at the season opening... hopefully he will find his feet soon.
Anyway cant wait to be in turin for the next leg!!!
some of you should go see a juve game live..... serie a for me is the one league where you really need to see it in the stadium to truly appreciate it, you miss so much compared to other leagues when you watch on the tv.
Mate and shadow fax said evrything. You cant expect more from juve, because what you saw yesterday is our normal style game, everyone must know that by this time. Best than that, its hard to believe.
But anyways, i liked how we played yesterday against a team that is better than us, and is the champion of europe.
About DP, yes here people is being to hard with him. IN his last games he scored , ok, but the assistances were very good too, no one of the ast 4 gouals he scored was a personal play, or a magikal moment. The free kick, was deviated so.
But, i keep the hope on DP because if juve have someone that can punish madrid, is him.
What differences the small teams from the big teams are their players qulity. Eevery big team have a big player behind, and that player is cappable of change a game in seconds. DP is a world class player and if juve want to beat madrid, we need his abilities, because madrid have very good players like zidane, who almost always are giving the best.
If our stars dont shine, we will have almost none opportunities to beat madrid.
And what mate said about the opportunities of goals, yes thats true too. He(dp) and treze had just a few opportunities, but madrid have a lot more, and were wated too. Anyways, this is not an excuse.
But anyways, i liked how we played yesterday against a team that is better than us, and is the champion of europe.
About DP, yes here people is being to hard with him. IN his last games he scored , ok, but the assistances were very good too, no one of the ast 4 gouals he scored was a personal play, or a magikal moment. The free kick, was deviated so.
But, i keep the hope on DP because if juve have someone that can punish madrid, is him.
What differences the small teams from the big teams are their players qulity. Eevery big team have a big player behind, and that player is cappable of change a game in seconds. DP is a world class player and if juve want to beat madrid, we need his abilities, because madrid have very good players like zidane, who almost always are giving the best.
If our stars dont shine, we will have almost none opportunities to beat madrid.
And what mate said about the opportunities of goals, yes thats true too. He(dp) and treze had just a few opportunities, but madrid have a lot more, and were wated too. Anyways, this is not an excuse.
I liked Shadowfax comments too. We couldn't expect Juventus to attakk like crazy in Madrid, this is not ouer style and it wuold be maybe a suicide actually.
About DP I don't understand why peaple keep on saying the same things from years: "he is so good when he's facing small teams but he disapeare in important matches" and say that it can depend on psycological sickness (In Italy they call it Delpierite) or whatever... DP isn't a leader but he's one of the player with a more "solid" personality I ever seen. The point is that he's way of playing depend on the team so is normal that in a team like 4 example the NT, weare the MF sucks, he sucks and that in matchs in which Juventus is in a difficolt moment he has difficoulty too.
In Juve the player who can make the difference when the team is in trouble is Nedved, he did it many times, in Madrid he didn't.
Anycase the result is OK, of course it wuould be better to draw but 2-1 isn't a big deal to recover in Turin, is better than 1-0.
And remember that Tacchi and especially Davids missing it was a big handicap 4 us, with Edgar probably 4 Figo and ZZ it will be impossible to dance in the MF like in a teatre like they did
About DP I don't understand why peaple keep on saying the same things from years: "he is so good when he's facing small teams but he disapeare in important matches" and say that it can depend on psycological sickness (In Italy they call it Delpierite) or whatever... DP isn't a leader but he's one of the player with a more "solid" personality I ever seen. The point is that he's way of playing depend on the team so is normal that in a team like 4 example the NT, weare the MF sucks, he sucks and that in matchs in which Juventus is in a difficolt moment he has difficoulty too.
In Juve the player who can make the difference when the team is in trouble is Nedved, he did it many times, in Madrid he didn't.
Anycase the result is OK, of course it wuould be better to draw but 2-1 isn't a big deal to recover in Turin, is better than 1-0.
And remember that Tacchi and especially Davids missing it was a big handicap 4 us, with Edgar probably 4 Figo and ZZ it will be impossible to dance in the MF like in a teatre like they did
Thanks Paul for that and my goodness I do envy you, about Dp , I guess I want so much from him as I appreciate his talents and you are quite right he has come up trumps with crucial goals against Brescia and Roma where 2 points were turned into 6
But I cannot understand why there is no power in his shots at all at the moment
Mate , well not for the firat time I do not share your view, to say he plays well when there is a good midfield is trivialising the issue
for the Nt you have players who just boot the ball forward for Vieri or pass the ball to Totti who looks for the runner
Have u ever seen Vieri and Recoba combine well, no because Recoba unlike Totti does not come too deep and play the long ball
His good play does not depend on Nedved, it depends on his mood and he is a better player than you portray him to be
But I cannot understand why there is no power in his shots at all at the moment
Mate , well not for the firat time I do not share your view, to say he plays well when there is a good midfield is trivialising the issue
for the Nt you have players who just boot the ball forward for Vieri or pass the ball to Totti who looks for the runner
Have u ever seen Vieri and Recoba combine well, no because Recoba unlike Totti does not come too deep and play the long ball
His good play does not depend on Nedved, it depends on his mood and he is a better player than you portray him to be
Paul - I definetely agree with you. Del Piero was excellent off the ball and I personally thought that he had played a good game after I watched it, but then I came here and saw all of you saying, "DP was poor", "DP was awful".
And JuveBoy, you're mad. Either that or you're not a Juve supporter, because any true Juve supporter would be grateful for all of the things that Alex has done for their club and hope that he would stay with them until he retires, but just because he plays two or three not-so-good games you want to sell him and to have him replaced by Totti. Of all people, Totti. I thought better of you :down:
And JuveBoy, you're mad. Either that or you're not a Juve supporter, because any true Juve supporter would be grateful for all of the things that Alex has done for their club and hope that he would stay with them until he retires, but just because he plays two or three not-so-good games you want to sell him and to have him replaced by Totti. Of all people, Totti. I thought better of you :down:
Paul - I definetely agree with you. Del Piero was excellent off the ball and I personally thought that he had played a good game after I watched it, but then I came here and saw all of you saying, "DP was poor", "DP was awful".
And JuveBoy, you're mad. Either that or you're not a Juve supporter, because any true Juve supporter would be grateful for all of the things that Alex has done for their club and hope that he would stay with them until he retires, but just because he plays two or three not-so-good games you want to sell him and to have him replaced by Totti. Of all people, Totti. I thought better of you :down:
And JuveBoy, you're mad. Either that or you're not a Juve supporter, because any true Juve supporter would be grateful for all of the things that Alex has done for their club and hope that he would stay with them until he retires, but just because he plays two or three not-so-good games you want to sell him and to have him replaced by Totti. Of all people, Totti. I thought better of you :down: