[CL] JUVENTUS 2-1 Borussia Dortmund (February 24th, 2015) (39 Viewers)

[Pirlo's Beard]

Let's face it until we build for a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 (There are others but these 2 are the most obvious ones) we'll have shit width and a huge weakness. I don't care if you have 9 World Class players in a narrow at fuck formation, you can still be abused on the flanks. But, of course we don't, so yeah.

 

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[PedroFlu]

I'd play Pereyra over pirlo on current form. lichsteiner has been so bad lately. caceres can cross the ball.
Probable Borussia Dortmund lineup: Weidenfeller; Piszczek, Subotic, Hummels, Schmelzer; Gundogan, Sahin; Kampl, Mkhitaryan, Reus; Aubameyang
Probable Juventus lineup: Buffon; caceres , Bonucci, Chiellini, Evra; Pogba, Pirlo, Marchisio; Vidal; Tevez, Morata.

The problem with Caceres is the possibility of blunders. He's definitely in better shape, but I don't trust him in huge games like this.

But Evra will have to stay put at the left. If he goes up and down, his lack of speed and stamina will generate a huge liability at the left.

 

[MikeM]

You need Lichtsteiner vs. Reus. He's smarter than Martin. He can play rough and get away with it. Caceres has the potential to give up a penalty, take a red or make a big mistake in possession.

 

[Ronn]

Besides, Licht is suspended for Roma game in the weekend

 

[PedroFlu]

Let's face it until we build for a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 (There are others but these 2 are the most obvious ones) we'll have $#@! width and a huge weakness. I don't care if you have 9 World Class players in a narrow at $#@! formation, you can still be abused on the flanks. But, of course we don't, so yeah.

This is also due to a lack of real threats at the full backs.

But you know, with this very squad Allegri could and should have given a go to test a 4312 with Marchisio - Vidal - Pogba / Tevez / Coman - Morata.

Tevez has the required characteristics for a trequartista if he's willing to let the ball go. He's got the vision and the passing. Coman would go through the lanes and Morata a mobile CF, sometimes at the lanes for Tevez and the mids to get into the area for the finish. This would be a very fast and dangerous team. If Coman had more opportunities during the season he might actually be considered for this. Also use Padoin as a left back who provides good defensive cover, and unleashes Litch to go up more at the right.

With our players, the formation that suits Europe best would be some sort of 3-3-3-1 with the ball, similar to Bayern:

------------------------------Buffon-------------------

-----------Bonucci -----------Chiellini ----------------Padoin

------------------------------Marchisio-------------------

----------Vidal--------------------------------Pogba-------

Litch-------------------Tevez--------------------Coman

---------------------Morata-----------------------------------

Without the ball, it goes back to a 4312 with Litch as a RB, Coman tracing back at the left flank, Morata tracing back right flank, Tevez marking the middle.

Of course this is impossible now, since it hasn't even ben tried and Coman has no significant playing time. But I really wished this could have been developed by Allegri during the season against weak teams.

This would be a very techinical and fast team, great for the high pressure. Only problem would be Chiellini and Bonucci as slow as they are. Maybe try Caceres for Bonucci. But then we'd have a height problem.

Just pointing out that the width and lack of pace problem could be tried to be solved with the current players we have. Tevez as a trequartista would be the basic solution, inserting a pacey guy in Coman.

 

[MikeM]

Tevez can also play like a false 9 with Morata on the LW looking to cut in behind and Pereyra on the RW doing nothing but crossing since he's actually good at that.

Then you have space for Pogba to make moves up the centre of the pitch unlike now where there are literally THREE players in his way.

 

[PedroFlu]

You need Lichtsteiner vs. Reus. He's smarter than Martin. He can play rough and get away with it. Caceres has the potential to give up a penalty, take a red or make a big mistake in possession.

Agreed.

And I think Evra vs Reus on the left could really become a nightmare. Pogba will spend a lot of energy helping him in there. I'd go with Padoin who is quicker and defends better at this point. And his crossing is not bad at all.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Yeah to even think about palying a 4-3-1-2 at the highest level you need absolute complete full backs.

 

[Maldeika]

Just do it like the teams did it against Dortmund all season. Let them have the ball and when playing out of the back use long balls as you have the offense that can really hurt them. Do not try to play out of the back slowly. And do not play a high line in the back.

If they have the ball they will make mistakes...

 

[PedroFlu]

Tevez can also play like a false 9 with Morata on the LW looking to cut in behind and Pereyra on the RW doing nothing but crossing since he's actually good at that.

Then you have space for Pogba to make moves up the centre of the pitch unlike now where there are literally THREE players in his way.

Even though I don't think Pereyra is suited to be a winger, regarding our realistic options and the fact that today Coman is not prepared, yes I'd like to see that.

Open it up with Morata and Pereyra. These guys will trace back and offer back protection and high pressing without the ball.

Use Tevez in a free roaming attacking position - as a trequartista or fake 9. This worked so well in the beginning of the season.

Vidal is not a good AM. But he's a WC CM and I feel he's regaining his mobility, even though his head is still messed up.

Most importantly, Marchisio as a DM offer much much greater protection at the back and much more quickness in the transition to the attack. It's a no-brainer.

Marchisio IMO is one of the best in the world at the DM position. He's been outstanding every single time he played there. I actually wouldn't exchange him for any DM of the world right now. There's an ocean of difference between him and Pirlo at the moment. This is crucial.

 

[.zero]

People got mad at Pereyra for almost assisting Pogba who missed a header from the goalline.

And that's why we love this place

 

[MikeM]

Just do it like the teams did it against Dortmund all season. Let them have the ball and when playing out of the back use long balls as you have the offense that can really hurt them. Do not try to play out of the back slowly. And do not play a high line in the back.

If they have the ball they will make mistakes...

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. The 4-3-1-2 can at least keep a defensive shape but when we recover the ball we can't fuck around with Pirlo and Bonucci.

 

[PedroFlu]

So the ideal formation would be:

-----------------------Buffon-------------------------

Litch-------Bonucci-----------------Chiellini--------Padoin

---------------------Marchisio-------------------------

-----------Vidal-----------------------Pogba-------------

--------------------Tevez------------------------------

-------Pereyra------------------------Morata-----------


This formation would be awesome for counters. Sit back deeper, give Dortmund the ball, defend as hell and go on crazy counters. Apply them their own medicine.

I'd really like to see that.

But instead with Pereyra centralized and Pirlo as a regista we lose so much width, countering ability and mainly defensive power...

They will definitely give the ball to Juve and press as crazy. We won't be able to build up with Pirlo's slowness and the lack of width - he won't have options to pass to. This the receipt to very bad result.

 

[MikeM]

Even though I don't think Pereyra is suited to be a winger, regarding our realistic options and the fact that today Coman is not prepared, yes I'd like to see that.

Open it up with Morata and Pereyra. These guys will trace back and offer back protection and high pressing without the ball.

Use Tevez in a free roaming attacking position - as a trequartista or fake 9. This worked so well in the beginning of the season.

Vidal is not a good AM. But he's a WC CM and I feel he's regaining his mobility, even though his head is still messed up.

Most importantly, Marchisio as a DM offer much much greater protection at the back and much more quickness in the transition to the attack. It's a no-brainer.

Marchisio IMO is one of the best in the world at the DM position. He's been outstanding every single time he played there. I actually wouldn't exchange him for any DM of the world right now. There's an ocean of difference between him and Pirlo at the moment. This is crucial.

I agree. Marchisio is a top, top DM. When I saw him single handedly kill an Atletico counter attack in our first encounter I knew he was something special there.

Vidal-Marchisio-Pogba is one of the best 3 man mids in the world. It's a shame we never see it.

But even if we use them, we have to allow them to pop up in the match. 2 STs and a CAM directly in front is just terrible. Ideally, One ST and 2 wingers stretching the defence to allow Pogba and Vidal channels to insert themselves would work best.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

The worst thing we can do is what we sometimes do in Serie A and throw like 9 men forward in stupid positions, then when we inevitably get dispossessed we get to see a couple of our players try and have a 2 on 2 foot race back towards our own goal against Aubameyang and Reus, which would be fucking horrific.

 

[PedroFlu]

But anyway, Allegri hasn't developed other ways to play.

We will play like we always do. Press high up, high defensive line, have the ball, build the game.

If this is confirmed, with Evra-Chiellini-Bonucci and Pirlo heading the defense, and a crowded midfield with Pereyra playing as poorly as he has been as a trequartista... can't wait for a good result.

If we play not high up the pitch, but also not sitting back, gotta hope defenders will have a solid day and pray that Pirlo plays out of his mind. Then we might go for a 0-0 or 1-0 in an isolated play. Can't expect much more than this.

- - - Updated - - -

The worst thing we can do is what we sometimes do in Serie A and throw like 9 men forward in stupid positions, then when we inevitably get dispossessed we get to see a couple of our players try and have a 2 on 2 foot race back towards our own goal against Aubameyang and Reus, which would be $#@!ing horrific.

Yes. Defense has been very shaken in the past games, even against shitty Serie A teams.

If Allegri doesn't change anything, odds are bad. And odds are he's changing nothing, as conservative and afraid of changes as he is.

So odds are bad. But we do have options to increase the chances. It would take a great coach to do it though. And benching Pirlo is never easy, coach must have balls.

 

[j0ker]

I see we have lost already.

 

[MikeM]

I don't think Allegri is that stupid Pedro. We saw against Atletico how conservative we were. We didn't open ourselves at all to them. Of course we didn't create anything either but you can see the mentality is different.

I think we will sit deep and try to counter. And in possession we will not put all our men forward.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

I see we have lost already.

No point watching eh?

 

[PedroFlu]

I agree. Marchisio is a top, top DM. When I saw him single handedly kill an Atletico counter attack in our first encounter I knew he was something special there.

Vidal-Marchisio-Pogba is one of the best 3 man mids in the world. It's a shame we never see it.

But even if we use them, we have to allow them to pop up in the match. 2 STs and a CAM directly in front is just terrible. Ideally, One ST and 2 wingers stretching the defence to allow Pogba and Vidal channels to insert themselves would work best.

Perfect.

And Tevez plays better when he has freedom to roam, like he had in the beginning of the season.

I'm cautiously optimistc about Vidal. I'm sure he won't keep the shitty form forever. I don't know if he'll be back to old Vidal though.

But IMO his mobility and pass accuracy is slowly improving in the last couple months. His head is the biggest problem.

But if you have a Vidal playing 80% of his potential, paired with Marchisio as a DM and Pogba - honestly this is the best midfield in the world IMO.

Marchisio was the best and the only tuttocampista of the world till his injury. Pogba has developed as a unique midifielder in the world right now, offering an ability to decide games on his own that no other CM has today. And Marchisio has developed such meaness, stamina, strenght and ability to tackle that paired with his great agility, awareness, vision, passing with both feet and even dribbling sometimes that as a DM this is currently unmatched.

So if Marchisio - Vidal - Pogba each play at the top of their abilites, I wouldn't replace not one of them for a midfielder in the whole world.