[CL] Champions League 2015/2016 (6 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

I agree that he doesn't always park the bus as evidenced by their performances in La Liga and against weaker CL sides. When he does park the bus against the big teams, it takes tactical brilliance to figure out how to neutralize each side since they are not all the same.
(1) The fact that he plays differently against big sides compared to small ones to great effect shows strategic and tactical flexibility.

(2)The fact that he can consistently neutralize a variety of top teams who don't use the same game-plan is further evidence of tactical brilliance.


I'll start with (2) where he does rely on counter attacking.

Defensive Counter Attacking is a general strategy not a tactic. Any coach can try it but few coaches can do it consistently successfully. This is because it requires a great tactical mind to figure out how to neutralize a particular opposition team's attacking game plan. In other words the tactical plan under this general strategy is what can make or break the whole strategy.

The coach has to instruct players in detail on how to organize the their lines. Where and when to press. Who gets man-marked by whom and in what situations. How to adapt when X, Y or Z happens. The coach studies how the opposition team works and identifies weaknesses. He then teaches his players how to exploit these weaknesses. If he gets the weaknesses wrong the plan fails. If he assigns his players tasks that they simply cannot fulfill then the plan fails. He has to know the opposition and know his own guys capabilities and know how to get his own guys (given their limitations) can damage the opposition. This is in both the defensive and counter attacking phases of the game.

Now every team that he faces has its own playing style and its own game plan so counter attacking them requires a specific tailored tactical plan. Barca are very different from Madrid. The way you neutralize Ronaldo and Bale is different from the way you neutralize Messi and Suarez. Playing Juve is also very different from playing Madrid and so on. Bayern will also be different. Also not every Madrid or Barca is the same. He played against Madrid under different coaches with different styles and the same goes against Barca. There is thus a lot of variety here its not a 1-trick plan that applies to all big games regardless of the peculiar features of the teams he is facing.


Now back to (1) the fact that he uses a more offensive strategy against smaller teams in the CL and La Liga.
In La Liga, he has to consistently win to keep with the free scoring Spanish giants. His team is almost just as good against small teams that he has to attack and is slightly better against the big guys themselves. How can a one trick poney who can only park the bus keep up with Madrid and Barca in La Liga without having half the quality in his squad? He attacks them and he wins. He can thus switch strategies and again does so very effectively.

So again the argument is He is NOT a one trick pony. He does not always park the bus the way you are claiming because he was to play in La Liga and win matches. When he does park the bus and counter, each opposition requires different tactics to neutralize them. He thus uses a variety of strategies and a variety of tactics under each strategy. Juve does the same thing. In Serie A we dominate 95% of the matches we play with a general offensive possession based strategy but then when faced with tough opposition we play counter attacking like we did to Bayern and countering Bayern is different for us from countering Madrid or Barca. Allegri doesn't just use one tactical plan for all games against all top teams regardless of the peculiar qualities of Bayern, Madrid or Barca even if our general strategy against then is still counter attacking.

Simeone and Allegri are very similar in this manner but the former has to do it more because he has to play Barca and Madrid every year in La Liga and probably CL too. He does it more successfully and consistently then Max with less resources and that is nothing short of genius considering how good Allegri already is.



One last thing: If he uses the same strategy and same tactics throughout the season and still manages to equal and often outperform the spanish giants then that in itself would be brilliant. That has to be some plan though that all coaches should copy

Excellent post, +rep

 

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[Hist]

@Hist

What happened in the game?

 

[il brutto]

It was the point that I was making. Zach was saying that we have the most tactically flexible squad and I said that we do not because we cannot play a winger based formation while they can. If playing non-wingers as wingers counts for you, then technically any squad can field any formation if they have 11 players. Bayern has the players to play narrow or wide, defensive or offensive. This is because of the size of their squad.

Cuadrado is a winger and Alex Sandro can easily play as one. If we had to play Marchisio and Tevez as wingers I would agree with you that we don't have the players to do that.

I'm not going to get involved in the who has more tactical flexibility us or Bayern argument but we can easily use wingers if we so choose to do.

 

[Scottish]

That's the only kind of post Scottish is capable of.

It's just a prank brah.

 

[DAiDEViL]

He did not sit deep and defend against PSV it was actually the reverse. Check the stats on whoscored for both games and you'll find ATM with the majority of possession, shots, shots on target and spend longer time in the opposition half than the opposite.

how did it work out for them? how many goals did they score? did they impress you with their great attacking football? two games - zero goals vs. Eindhoven. the sheer brilliance

they simply gave Atletico a taste of their own medicine, this combined with being a half decent team was almost enough to throw them out. pathetic display.

i wonder if it has to do something with Atletico being a counter-attacking team only. handing the possession to Atletico is the best thing you can do, because they don't know what to do with it.

 

[Seven]

how did it work out for them? how many goals did they score? did they impress you with their great attacking football? two games - zero goals vs. Eindhoven. the sheer brilliance

they simply gave Atletico a taste of their own medicine, this combined with being a half decent team was almost enough to throw them out. pathetic display.

i wonder if it has to do something with Atletico being a counter-attacking team only. handing the possession to Atletico is the best thing you can do, because they don't know what to do with it.

Yeah.. Atletico are a tough team to play against, but I don't think they are a great team in their own right. Upfront they also completely rely on Griezmann. It's not unlike Real and Ronaldo, the biggest difference is that Ronaldo's quite a bit better than Griezmann.

 

[Cheesio]

My order of prefrance of the team winning it:

1- City ( don't know any city fan + it would make Pep's job harder ( more expectations when you are the coach of the winning team))
2- ATM ( don't know any athletico fan+ more likeable than the other two team.
3- Bayern ( I only know a few bayern fans and frankly i don't care for them. )
4-RM ( their fans just wont shutup if they win with la una decima and crap like that, so i hope they crash in the semis)

 

[zizinho]

What happened in the game?

I have no idea

 

[DAiDEViL]

City? those island monkeys are already unbearable...now imagine them winning the CL.
thank god it's not gonna happen anyway.

 

[Elvin]

I have EPL-fan friends who claim that the reason they've not been doing well in Europe is that they make more money in EPL, so they're just not motivated enough.

 

[DAiDEViL]

there you go.

 

[Cheesio]

I don't have any epl friends, a part from a couple of Man Utd fans, so at a bay. Barça and Madrid fans are the worst.

 

[Ocelot]

Well I'll accept anything over Bayern winning it.

Preferably Atletico, a team I actually like.

 

[zizinho]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/champions-league-review-competition-better-204155011.html

Sums it up perfectly. $#@! this more than a club bull$#@!.

Spot on

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It was the point that I was making. Zach was saying that we have the most tactically flexible squad and I said that we do not because we cannot play a winger based formation while they can. If playing non-wingers as wingers counts for you, then technically any squad can field any formation if they have 11 players. Bayern has the players to play narrow or wide, defensive or offensive. This is because of the size of their squad.

They can play different formations but how good are they at most of them. Tactical flexibility is not how many different formations you can play. Any team can play any formation, but the trick is to maintain an atleast similar level of quality while doing so. Id say if Bayern play without wingers vs us we would beat them as easy as Dortmund last season, id love to see that actually, Bayern with Lahm and Alaba as their main wide guys vs us. They always use wingers and when not they dont look the same team at all. Write down their 4312 or 352 for us please, and since you dont consider Sandro or Morata wingers you should not play any of their players out of position

 

[Xperd]

A City-Atletico final would be very nice

I think Atletico will reach the final regardless of who they draw.They look very determined this yr.

 

[Lapa]

I have EPL-fan friends who claim that the reason they've not been doing well in Europe is that they make more money in EPL, so they're just not motivated enough.

 

[Cerval]

Yeah.. Atletico are a tough team to play against, but I don't think they are a great team in their own right. Upfront they also completely rely on Griezmann. It's not unlike Real and Ronaldo, the biggest difference is that Ronaldo's quite a bit better than Griezmann.

What makes a team good or among the best doesn't depend solely on how they look on paper; how a team plays as a unit matters too.

 

[campionesidd]

Bundesliga fans are the worst imo.

 

[Hist]

Spot on

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They can play different formations but how good are they at most of them. Tactical flexibility is not how many different formations you can play. Any team can play any formation, but the trick is to maintain an atleast similar level of quality while doing so. Id say if Bayern play without wingers vs us we would beat them as easy as Dortmund last season, id love to see that actually, Bayern with Lahm and Alaba as their main wide guys vs us. They always use wingers and when not they dont look the same team at all. Write down their 4312 or 352 for us please, and since you dont consider Sandro or Morata wingers you should not play any of their players out of position

3-5-2

Benatia - Martinez - Boateng
lahm - vidal - alonso - thiago - Alaba
Lewandowski-Muller


4-3-1-2 would have Gotze behind the strikers or Muller behind the strikers. They have the players for these formations but it would be a waste of Robben, Ribery, Koman and Costa.

 

[Seven]

Does anyone else want to rape Busquets with a giant dildo till he bleeds to death?

I have such hate towards this man that it scares me. He's like the Inter of football players.

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