[CL] Champions League 2015/2016 (12 Viewers)

[Hist]

I agree that he doesn't always park the bus as evidenced by their performances in La Liga and against weaker CL sides. When he does park the bus against the big teams, it takes tactical brilliance to figure out how to neutralize each side since they are not all the same.
(1) The fact that he plays differently against big sides compared to small ones to great effect shows strategic and tactical flexibility.

(2)The fact that he can consistently neutralize a variety of top teams who don't use the same game-plan is further evidence of tactical brilliance.


I'll start with (2) where he does rely on counter attacking.

Defensive Counter Attacking is a general strategy not a tactic. Any coach can try it but few coaches can do it consistently successfully. This is because it requires a great tactical mind to figure out how to neutralize a particular opposition team's attacking game plan. In other words the tactical plan under this general strategy is what can make or break the whole strategy.

The coach has to instruct players in detail on how to organize the their lines. Where and when to press. Who gets man-marked by whom and in what situations. How to adapt when X, Y or Z happens. The coach studies how the opposition team works and identifies weaknesses. He then teaches his players how to exploit these weaknesses. If he gets the weaknesses wrong the plan fails. If he assigns his players tasks that they simply cannot fulfill then the plan fails. He has to know the opposition and know his own guys capabilities and know how to get his own guys (given their limitations) can damage the opposition. This is in both the defensive and counter attacking phases of the game.

Now every team that he faces has its own playing style and its own game plan so counter attacking them requires a specific tailored tactical plan. Barca are very different from Madrid. The way you neutralize Ronaldo and Bale is different from the way you neutralize Messi and Suarez. Playing Juve is also very different from playing Madrid and so on. Bayern will also be different. Also not every Madrid or Barca is the same. He played against Madrid under different coaches with different styles and the same goes against Barca. There is thus a lot of variety here its not a 1-trick plan that applies to all big games regardless of the peculiar features of the teams he is facing.


Now back to (1) the fact that he uses a more offensive strategy against smaller teams in the CL and La Liga.
In La Liga, he has to consistently win to keep with the free scoring Spanish giants. His team is almost just as good against small teams that he has to attack and is slightly better against the big guys themselves. How can a one trick poney who can only park the bus keep up with Madrid and Barca in La Liga without having half the quality in his squad? He attacks them and he wins. He can thus switch strategies and again does so very effectively.

So again the argument is He is NOT a one trick pony. He does not always park the bus the way you are claiming because he was to play in La Liga and win matches. When he does park the bus and counter, each opposition requires different tactics to neutralize them. He thus uses a variety of strategies and a variety of tactics under each strategy. Juve does the same thing. In Serie A we dominate 95% of the matches we play with a general offensive possession based strategy but then when faced with tough opposition we play counter attacking like we did to Bayern and countering Bayern is different for us from countering Madrid or Barca. Allegri doesn't just use one tactical plan for all games against all top teams regardless of the peculiar qualities of Bayern, Madrid or Barca even if our general strategy against then is still counter attacking.

Simeone and Allegri are very similar in this manner but the former has to do it more because he has to play Barca and Madrid every year in La Liga and probably CL too. He does it more successfully and consistently then Max with less resources and that is nothing short of genius considering how good Allegri already is.



One last thing: If he uses the same strategy and same tactics throughout the season and still manages to equal and often outperform the spanish giants then that in itself would be brilliant. That has to be some plan though that all coaches should copy

This is a brilliant post.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Osman]

That's the only kind of post Scottish is capable of.

 

[zizinho]

Wasn't Lionel world cup mvp?

I thought it was Khedira

- - - Updated - - -

I agree that he doesn't always park the bus as evidenced by their performances in La Liga and against weaker CL sides. When he does park the bus against the big teams, it takes tactical brilliance to figure out how to neutralize each side since they are not all the same.
(1) The fact that he plays differently against big sides compared to small ones to great effect shows strategic and tactical flexibility.

(2)The fact that he can consistently neutralize a variety of top teams who don't use the same game-plan is further evidence of tactical brilliance.


I'll start with (2) where he does rely on counter attacking.

Defensive Counter Attacking is a general strategy not a tactic. Any coach can try it but few coaches can do it consistently successfully. This is because it requires a great tactical mind to figure out how to neutralize a particular opposition team's attacking game plan. In other words the tactical plan under this general strategy is what can make or break the whole strategy.

The coach has to instruct players in detail on how to organize the their lines. Where and when to press. Who gets man-marked by whom and in what situations. How to adapt when X, Y or Z happens. The coach studies how the opposition team works and identifies weaknesses. He then teaches his players how to exploit these weaknesses. If he gets the weaknesses wrong the plan fails. If he assigns his players tasks that they simply cannot fulfill then the plan fails. He has to know the opposition and know his own guys capabilities and know how to get his own guys (given their limitations) can damage the opposition. This is in both the defensive and counter attacking phases of the game.

Now every team that he faces has its own playing style and its own game plan so counter attacking them requires a specific tailored tactical plan. Barca are very different from Madrid. The way you neutralize Ronaldo and Bale is different from the way you neutralize Messi and Suarez. Playing Juve is also very different from playing Madrid and so on. Bayern will also be different. Also not every Madrid or Barca is the same. He played against Madrid under different coaches with different styles and the same goes against Barca. There is thus a lot of variety here its not a 1-trick plan that applies to all big games regardless of the peculiar features of the teams he is facing.


Now back to (1) the fact that he uses a more offensive strategy against smaller teams in the CL and La Liga.
In La Liga, he has to consistently win to keep with the free scoring Spanish giants. His team is almost just as good against small teams that he has to attack and is slightly better against the big guys themselves. How can a one trick poney who can only park the bus keep up with Madrid and Barca in La Liga without having half the quality in his squad? He attacks them and he wins. He can thus switch strategies and again does so very effectively.

So again the argument is He is NOT a one trick pony. He does not always park the bus the way you are claiming because he was to play in La Liga and win matches. When he does park the bus and counter, each opposition requires different tactics to neutralize them. He thus uses a variety of strategies and a variety of tactics under each strategy. Juve does the same thing. In Serie A we dominate 95% of the matches we play with a general offensive possession based strategy but then when faced with tough opposition we play counter attacking like we did to Bayern and countering Bayern is different for us from countering Madrid or Barca. Allegri doesn't just use one tactical plan for all games against all top teams regardless of the peculiar qualities of Bayern, Madrid or Barca even if our general strategy against then is still counter attacking.

Simeone and Allegri are very similar in this manner but the former has to do it more because he has to play Barca and Madrid every year in La Liga and probably CL too. He does it more successfully and consistently then Max with less resources and that is nothing short of genius considering how good Allegri already is.



One last thing: If he uses the same strategy and same tactics throughout the season and still manages to equal and often outperform the spanish giants then that in itself would be brilliant. That has to be some plan though that all coaches should copy

Sorry bro this doesent make much sense. Have to agree with Hist

 

[Hist]

(1) because he HAS to?

Of course he can't park the bus against all La Liga minnows, because they won't make the game. they aren't stupid enough to run into the knife. they know that if they don't make the game - Atletico can't counter.
which takes away their biggest strenght. but they still have the 3rd best squad in the league and are able to grind out results with their superior team, but their natural gameplan still remains counter attacking football.

(2) ...by using the same gameplan, no?

do you see a huge difference in how he sets up matches against Barca and how he plays vs. Real...or Eindhoven? i don't.
sitting deep, leave no space, counter attack. all new concept. never been there in italy before, simeone so brilliant.

and please FFS, don't compare us to Atletico. we pretty much only adapt to top 3 teams (Bayern,Barca,Real)
and if we do so, we don't sit back Atletico style, unless the opponent is strong enough to force us to do so.

Atletico feels comfortable with 11 men in their own half from the very beginning. we never go full defense like this willingly, unless we try to defend a result. but unlike simeones, Max's gameplan almost never involves to go out, bend over, and just hand all the possession to our opponent.

let me tell you this, if Bayern comes up against Atletico and Atletico plays like Atletico always plays
(and they will - hello?! 1-trick pony), Bayern is going to trash them.

Yes he attacks them because he has to and he does it as consistently and effectively as Barca and Madrid (currently better than Madrid) under any coach, despite the fact that his squad is multiple levels inferior to theirs. How do you believe that he plays offensively as good as Barca and Madrid do most of the league games and at the same time believe that he can only defend and is a 1 trick pony? Thats a contradiction. Its like believing that Ronaldo only scores penalties and at the same time believing that most of his goals are from open play.

He also defends because he has to. If he was stupid, he would try to play possession offensive football against Barca, Madrid and maybe Bayern. But because he is smart, he will study Bayern, identify their weaknesses and drill his team to exploit these weaknesses.

He did not sit deep and defend against PSV it was actually the reverse. Check the stats on whoscored for both games and you'll find ATM with the majority of possession, shots, shots on target and spend longer time in the opposition half than the opposite.

I can't believe you are complaining that a coach with ATMs squad is playing disciplined counter attacking football against the big European clubs. You somehow think the smart thing is to play offensively.

- - - Updated - - -

Who do you consider the better team between Atletico and Juventus?

On paper definitely Juve. We are much superior in every department. Only 3 of their players can play for Juve. Godin, Koke and Griezmann. Almost every Juve first teamer can walk into their starting 11. Thats why we have higher ceiling than they do. They are punching way above their weight all the time. We are punching our weight or slightly above.

In reality I'd say we are equals but they have better character and confidence in the big European games. I think in a head to head we would struggle but would come out on top. But If I am a bookie, I rate ATM's chances against Barca, Madrid or Bayern higher than Juve's. I have never seen them freaking out the way we did against Bayern in the first leg. I admire their confidence and spirit especially when I look at how poor the squad is on paper.

 

[juventus4life]

Well done Atleti. Bayern can win this.

It should have been us, not Bayern. Why Evra?

 

[campionesidd]

We should buy Calleri to replace Morata if he leaves.

Save the big money for midfield/attacking midfield players. Calleri-Dybala... The future of Argentina.

Plus, would infuriate Inter.

- - - Updated - - -



You're not seriously suggesting Neuer is "utter $#@!e" are you?

It's one thing to say he's declined a bit since 2014 world cup... but he's still easily a top 5 keeper in football.

No, just trying to say that citing 2 year old World Cup performances is not a good way to determine if someone is still excellent or not.

 

[kao_ray]

Please, Atletico. Win this shit

 

[napoleonic]

It should have been us, not Bayern. Why Evra?

It was llorente's fault @Lion

 

[Xperd]

Hope Atletico keep Simeone and Griezmann for a long time and hope to see them become a powerhouse in the long haul.This is some tremendous stuff Atleti are doing over the last 4-5 yrs.
Seriously stop criticizing them for their style of play.They're pitted against teams 3x their budget and annual revenues and are consistently going toe to toe with these teams.If you ask Atletico fans if they'd prefer this team or previous ones where they were probably more entertaining but not winning anything,its a pretty easy answer.They've earned their place in this result oriented business and i hope they continue to grow.

 

[kao_ray]

I want Real - Bayern and Atletico - City...

 

[piotrr]

Ffs Hist. Enough with the mega posts, you're worse than Cronios these days. Do you seriously think most drones on this forum read that?

when i see another Hist's essay

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

when i see another Hist's essay

 

[Elvin]

That's how you treat your ex-star who went for greener pastures (Arda).
Bravo Atletico!

 

[Vlad]

He doesn't always park the bus as evidenced by their performances in La Liga and against weaker CL sides. When he does park the bus against the big teams, it takes tactical brilliance to figure out how to neutralize each side since they are not all the same.
(1) The fact that he plays differently against big sides compared to small ones to great effect shows strategic and tactical flexibility.

(2)The fact that he can consistently neutralize a variety of top teams who don't use the same game-plan is further evidence of tactical brilliance.


I'll start with (2) where he does rely on counter attacking.

Defensive Counter Attacking is a general strategy not a tactic. Any coach can try it but few coaches can do it consistently successfully. This is because it requires a great tactical mind to figure out how to neutralize a particular opposition team's attacking game plan. In other words the tactical plan under this general strategy is what can make or break the whole strategy.

The coach has to instruct players in detail on how to organize the their lines. Where and when to press. Who gets man-marked by whom and in what situations. How to adapt when X, Y or Z happens. The coach studies how the opposition team works and identifies weaknesses. He then teaches his players how to exploit these weaknesses. If he gets the weaknesses wrong the plan fails. If he assigns his players tasks that they simply cannot fulfill then the plan fails. He has to know the opposition and know his own guys capabilities and know how to get his own guys (given their limitations) can damage the opposition. This is in both the defensive and counter attacking phases of the game.

Now every team that he faces has its own playing style and its own game plan so counter attacking them requires a specific tailored tactical plan. Barca are very different from Madrid. The way you neutralize Ronaldo and Bale is different from the way you neutralize Messi and Suarez. Playing Juve is also very different from playing Madrid and so on. Bayern will also be different. Also not every Madrid or Barca is the same. He played against Madrid under different coaches with different styles and the same goes against Barca. There is thus a lot of variety here its not a 1-trick plan that applies to all big games regardless of the peculiar features of the teams he is facing.


Now back to (1) the fact that he uses a more offensive strategy against smaller teams in the CL and La Liga.
In La Liga, he has to consistently win to keep with the free scoring Spanish giants. His team is almost just as good against small teams that he has to attack and is slightly better against the big guys themselves. How can a one trick poney who can only park the bus keep up with Madrid and Barca in La Liga without having half the quality in his squad? He attacks them and he wins. He can thus switch strategies and again does so very effectively.

So again the argument is He is NOT a one trick pony. He does not always park the bus the way you are claiming because he was to play in La Liga and win matches. When he does park the bus and counter, each opposition requires different tactics to neutralize them. He thus uses a variety of strategies and a variety of tactics under each strategy. Juve does the same thing. In Serie A we dominate 95% of the matches we play with a general offensive possession based strategy but then when faced with tough opposition we play counter attacking like we did to Bayern and countering Bayern is different for us from countering Madrid or Barca. Allegri doesn't just use one tactical plan for all games against all top teams regardless of the peculiar qualities of Bayern, Madrid or Barca even if our general strategy against then is still counter attacking.

Simeone and Allegri are very similar in this manner but the former has to do it more because he has to play Barca and Madrid every year in La Liga and probably CL too. He does it more successfully and consistently then Max with less resources and that is nothing short of genius considering how good Allegri already is.



One last thing: If he uses the same strategy and same tactics throughout the season and still manages to equal and often outperform the spanish giants then that in itself would be brilliant. That has to be some plan though that all coaches should copy.
- - - Updated - - -



playing fullbacks and wingsbacks as wingers. That wasn't even an offensive game plan. Bayern has 4 wingers in comparison 3 of which (if not all) would walk all over Cuadrado, our only real winger.

 

[zizinho]

That's how you treat your ex-star who went for greener pastures (Arda).
Bravo Atletico!

@Hist

 

[Klin]

@Klin

Bro, you just gotta believe sometimes

True.

 

[Post Ironic]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/champions-league-review-competition-better-204155011.html

Sums it up perfectly. Fuck this more than a club bullshit.

We should all enjoy Barcelona’s exit

There’s something about Barcelona. It is mainly the more than a club nonsense, the slogan that long ago stopped being about Catalan solidarity under fascism, and started to be away to apologise for human rights abuses in Qatar. Add to that Lionel Messi’s court case, and their absolutely delighted veneration of Luis Suarez despite his history of cowardly violence and racism, and then add to that their posturing over Jose Mourinho daring not to buy into their hot guff, and you have possible the most irritating team in the history of history. And that doesn’t even mention the existence of Sergio Busquets, one of the most egregious cheats in Spanish football, and that’s saying something.

Of course, Barcelona were turned down the chance for an injury-time penalty because of an incorrect refereeing decision. The observing world might be sick into their own scorn with satisfaction at seeing a dodgy decision not going their way. Because if Atletico Madrid make their way into the final and succeed, then Atletico won’t say they’re more than a club, and nor will anyone on Twitter in Runcorn proclaim their expertise on the history of Atletico against Francoist oppression. They’ll just watch a brilliant side attempt to do something special, and leave the pseudish nonsense to the runts of the internet.

Barcelona are out of the Champions League, and they could well be in the process of bottling La Liga, and that is something that all of us should rejoice in.

 

[piotrr]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/champions-league-review-competition-better-204155011.html

Sums it up perfectly. Fuck this more than a club bullshit.

Can't believe it's in the article.

Btw The hell.

[video=twitter;720367227468398592]https://twitter.com/JakubBednaruk/status/720367227468398592[/video]

 

[il brutto]

playing fullbacks and wingsbacks as wingers. That wasn't even an offensive game plan. Bayern has 4 wingers in comparison 3 of which (if not all) would walk all over Cuadrado, our only real winger.

Sometimes it's just better to admit that your statement isn't true. You said that we can't easily adobt a wing based formation and I pointed out that we just easily did. It has nothing to do about how attacking it was or who has the better players in wide areas. Of course Bayern have the better wide players as their main formation is wing based ours is not but again that wasn't the point you were making.

 

[Hist]

Sometimes it's just better to admit that your statement isn't true. You said that we can't easily adobt a wing based formation and I pointed out that we just easily did. It has nothing to do about how attacking it was or who has the better players in wide areas. Of course Bayern have the better wide players as their main formation is wing based ours is not but again that wasn't the point you were making.

It was the point that I was making. Zach was saying that we have the most tactically flexible squad and I said that we do not because we cannot play a winger based formation while they can. If playing non-wingers as wingers counts for you, then technically any squad can field any formation if they have 11 players. Bayern has the players to play narrow or wide, defensive or offensive. This is because of the size of their squad.