So are we going to ignore his errors and or other poor performances because he was supposedly the best player at the last World Cup? That was two years ago.
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[CL] Champions League 2015/2016 (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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Fair choice. I would have chosen Müller, but it's hard to really say... Keepers are hard to rate in comparison to outfield players.
I mean, if Neuer wins that mvp, Buffon probably should have won in '06 n'est-ce pas? He conceded 2 goals in the entire tournament... As opposed to Neuer's 4 conceded in '14...?
I mean, if Neuer wins that mvp, Buffon probably should have won in '06 n'est-ce pas? He conceded 2 goals in the entire tournament... As opposed to Neuer's 4 conceded in '14...?
(1) because he HAS to?
Of course he can't park the bus against all La Liga minnows, because they won't make the game. they aren't stupid enough to run into the knife. they know that if they don't make the game - Atletico can't counter.
which takes away their biggest strenght. but they still have the 3rd best squad in the league and are able to grind out results with their superior team, but their natural gameplan still remains counter attacking football.
(2) ...by using the same gameplan, no?
do you see a huge difference in how he sets up matches against Barca and how he plays vs. Real...or Eindhoven? i don't.
sitting deep, leave no space, counter attack. all new concept. never been there in italy before, simeone so brilliant.
and please FFS, don't compare us to Atletico. we pretty much only adapt to top 3 teams (Bayern,Barca,Real)
and if we do so, we don't sit back Atletico style, unless the opponent is strong enough to force us to do so.
Atletico feels comfortable with 11 men in their own half from the very beginning. we never go full defense like this willingly, unless we try to defend a result. but unlike simeones, Max's gameplan almost never involves to go out, bend over, and just hand all the possession to our opponent.
let me tell you this, if Bayern comes up against Atletico and Atletico plays like Atletico always plays
(and they will - hello?! 1-trick pony), Bayern is going to trash them.
Of course he can't park the bus against all La Liga minnows, because they won't make the game. they aren't stupid enough to run into the knife. they know that if they don't make the game - Atletico can't counter.
which takes away their biggest strenght. but they still have the 3rd best squad in the league and are able to grind out results with their superior team, but their natural gameplan still remains counter attacking football.
(2) ...by using the same gameplan, no?
do you see a huge difference in how he sets up matches against Barca and how he plays vs. Real...or Eindhoven? i don't.
sitting deep, leave no space, counter attack. all new concept. never been there in italy before, simeone so brilliant.
and please FFS, don't compare us to Atletico. we pretty much only adapt to top 3 teams (Bayern,Barca,Real)
and if we do so, we don't sit back Atletico style, unless the opponent is strong enough to force us to do so.
Atletico feels comfortable with 11 men in their own half from the very beginning. we never go full defense like this willingly, unless we try to defend a result. but unlike simeones, Max's gameplan almost never involves to go out, bend over, and just hand all the possession to our opponent.
let me tell you this, if Bayern comes up against Atletico and Atletico plays like Atletico always plays
(and they will - hello?! 1-trick pony), Bayern is going to trash them.
barca lost? the defending champion taboo continues!
We should buy Calleri to replace Morata if he leaves.
Save the big money for midfield/attacking midfield players. Calleri-Dybala... The future of Argentina.
Plus, would infuriate Inter.
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You're not seriously suggesting Neuer is "utter shite" are you?
It's one thing to say he's declined a bit since 2014 world cup... but he's still easily a top 5 keeper in football.
Save the big money for midfield/attacking midfield players. Calleri-Dybala... The future of Argentina.
Plus, would infuriate Inter.
- - - Updated - - -
You're not seriously suggesting Neuer is "utter shite" are you?
It's one thing to say he's declined a bit since 2014 world cup... but he's still easily a top 5 keeper in football.
We should buy Calleri to replace Morata if he leaves.
Save the big money for midfield/attacking midfield players. Calleri-Dybala... The future of Argentina.
Plus, would infuriate Inter.
- - - Updated - - -
You're not seriously suggesting Neuer is "utter shite" are you?
It's one thing to say he's declined a bit since 2014 world cup... but he's still easily a top 5 keeper in football.
Save the big money for midfield/attacking midfield players. Calleri-Dybala... The future of Argentina.
Plus, would infuriate Inter.
- - - Updated - - -
You're not seriously suggesting Neuer is "utter shite" are you?
It's one thing to say he's declined a bit since 2014 world cup... but he's still easily a top 5 keeper in football.
I agree that he doesn't always park the bus as evidenced by their performances in La Liga and against weaker CL sides. When he does park the bus against the big teams, it takes tactical brilliance to figure out how to neutralize each side since they are not all the same.
(1) The fact that he plays differently against big sides compared to small ones to great effect shows strategic and tactical flexibility.
(2)The fact that he can consistently neutralize a variety of top teams who don't use the same game-plan is further evidence of tactical brilliance.
I'll start with (2) where he does rely on counter attacking.
Defensive Counter Attacking is a general strategy not a tactic. Any coach can try it but few coaches can do it consistently successfully. This is because it requires a great tactical mind to figure out how to neutralize a particular opposition team's attacking game plan. In other words the tactical plan under this general strategy is what can make or break the whole strategy.
The coach has to instruct players in detail on how to organize the their lines. Where and when to press. Who gets man-marked by whom and in what situations. How to adapt when X, Y or Z happens. The coach studies how the opposition team works and identifies weaknesses. He then teaches his players how to exploit these weaknesses. If he gets the weaknesses wrong the plan fails. If he assigns his players tasks that they simply cannot fulfill then the plan fails. He has to know the opposition and know his own guys capabilities and know how to get his own guys (given their limitations) can damage the opposition. This is in both the defensive and counter attacking phases of the game.
Now every team that he faces has its own playing style and its own game plan so counter attacking them requires a specific tailored tactical plan. Barca are very different from Madrid. The way you neutralize Ronaldo and Bale is different from the way you neutralize Messi and Suarez. Playing Juve is also very different from playing Madrid and so on. Bayern will also be different. Also not every Madrid or Barca is the same. He played against Madrid under different coaches with different styles and the same goes against Barca. There is thus a lot of variety here its not a 1-trick plan that applies to all big games regardless of the peculiar features of the teams he is facing.
Now back to (1) the fact that he uses a more offensive strategy against smaller teams in the CL and La Liga.
In La Liga, he has to consistently win to keep with the free scoring Spanish giants. His team is almost just as good against small teams that he has to attack and is slightly better against the big guys themselves. How can a one trick poney who can only park the bus keep up with Madrid and Barca in La Liga without having half the quality in his squad? He attacks them and he wins. He can thus switch strategies and again does so very effectively.
So again the argument is He is NOT a one trick pony. He does not always park the bus the way you are claiming because he was to play in La Liga and win matches. When he does park the bus and counter, each opposition requires different tactics to neutralize them. He thus uses a variety of strategies and a variety of tactics under each strategy. Juve does the same thing. In Serie A we dominate 95% of the matches we play with a general offensive possession based strategy but then when faced with tough opposition we play counter attacking like we did to Bayern and countering Bayern is different for us from countering Madrid or Barca. Allegri doesn't just use one tactical plan for all games against all top teams regardless of the peculiar qualities of Bayern, Madrid or Barca even if our general strategy against then is still counter attacking.
Simeone and Allegri are very similar in this manner but the former has to do it more because he has to play Barca and Madrid every year in La Liga and probably CL too. He does it more successfully and consistently then Max with less resources and that is nothing short of genius considering how good Allegri already is.
One last thing: If he uses the same strategy and same tactics throughout the season and still manages to equal and often outperform the spanish giants then that in itself would be brilliant. That has to be some plan though that all coaches should copy
(1) The fact that he plays differently against big sides compared to small ones to great effect shows strategic and tactical flexibility.
(2)The fact that he can consistently neutralize a variety of top teams who don't use the same game-plan is further evidence of tactical brilliance.
I'll start with (2) where he does rely on counter attacking.
Defensive Counter Attacking is a general strategy not a tactic. Any coach can try it but few coaches can do it consistently successfully. This is because it requires a great tactical mind to figure out how to neutralize a particular opposition team's attacking game plan. In other words the tactical plan under this general strategy is what can make or break the whole strategy.
The coach has to instruct players in detail on how to organize the their lines. Where and when to press. Who gets man-marked by whom and in what situations. How to adapt when X, Y or Z happens. The coach studies how the opposition team works and identifies weaknesses. He then teaches his players how to exploit these weaknesses. If he gets the weaknesses wrong the plan fails. If he assigns his players tasks that they simply cannot fulfill then the plan fails. He has to know the opposition and know his own guys capabilities and know how to get his own guys (given their limitations) can damage the opposition. This is in both the defensive and counter attacking phases of the game.
Now every team that he faces has its own playing style and its own game plan so counter attacking them requires a specific tailored tactical plan. Barca are very different from Madrid. The way you neutralize Ronaldo and Bale is different from the way you neutralize Messi and Suarez. Playing Juve is also very different from playing Madrid and so on. Bayern will also be different. Also not every Madrid or Barca is the same. He played against Madrid under different coaches with different styles and the same goes against Barca. There is thus a lot of variety here its not a 1-trick plan that applies to all big games regardless of the peculiar features of the teams he is facing.
Now back to (1) the fact that he uses a more offensive strategy against smaller teams in the CL and La Liga.
In La Liga, he has to consistently win to keep with the free scoring Spanish giants. His team is almost just as good against small teams that he has to attack and is slightly better against the big guys themselves. How can a one trick poney who can only park the bus keep up with Madrid and Barca in La Liga without having half the quality in his squad? He attacks them and he wins. He can thus switch strategies and again does so very effectively.
So again the argument is He is NOT a one trick pony. He does not always park the bus the way you are claiming because he was to play in La Liga and win matches. When he does park the bus and counter, each opposition requires different tactics to neutralize them. He thus uses a variety of strategies and a variety of tactics under each strategy. Juve does the same thing. In Serie A we dominate 95% of the matches we play with a general offensive possession based strategy but then when faced with tough opposition we play counter attacking like we did to Bayern and countering Bayern is different for us from countering Madrid or Barca. Allegri doesn't just use one tactical plan for all games against all top teams regardless of the peculiar qualities of Bayern, Madrid or Barca even if our general strategy against then is still counter attacking.
Simeone and Allegri are very similar in this manner but the former has to do it more because he has to play Barca and Madrid every year in La Liga and probably CL too. He does it more successfully and consistently then Max with less resources and that is nothing short of genius considering how good Allegri already is.
One last thing: If he uses the same strategy and same tactics throughout the season and still manages to equal and often outperform the spanish giants then that in itself would be brilliant. That has to be some plan though that all coaches should copy
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