[CL] Champions League 2010/11 (10 Viewers)

[Red]

It's okay with some ice she will heal.

 

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[am0110]

these guys had hard time breaking Messi's leg, they say it very difficult, but they will try it again:vinny:

 

[bianconero]

CL Topscorers 1992-2011 *​

01. Raúl 71
02. Ruud van Nistelrooij 56
03. Thierry Henry 50
04. Filippo Inzaghi 46
05. Andriy Shevchenko 46
06. Alessandro Del Piero 41
07. Lionel Messi 36
08. Fernando Morientes 33
09. Didier Drogba 33
10. David Trezeguet 29
11. Roy Makaay 29
12. Patrick Kluivert 29
13. Cristiano Ronaldo 28
14. Ryan Giggs 27
15. Samuel Eto'o 27
16. Rivaldo 27
17. Mario Jardel 25
18. Hernan Crespo 25
19. Giovane Elber 25
20. Paul Scholes 24
21. Kaká 24
22. Luis Figo 24
23. Wayne Rooney 23
24. Zlatan Ibrahimovic 23
25. Jari Litmanen 23
26. Marco Simone 20
27. Serhii Rebrov 20
28. Nicolas Anelka 20
29. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 20

CL Knockouts Topscorers (1992-2011) **​

01. Raúl 18
02. Lionel Messi 17
03. Andriy Shevchenko 17
04. Filippo Inzaghi 16
05. Wayne Rooney 13
06. Frank Lampard 13
07. Cristiano Ronaldo 13
08. Thierry Henry 12
09. Didier Drogba 10
10. Alessandro Del Piero 9
11. Samuel Eto'o 9
12. Fernando Morientes 9
13. Jari Litmanen 8
14. Zinédine Zidane 8
15. Kaká 8

* Only those with 20 goals or more
** Only those with 8 goals or more

Surprising to see that Van Nistelrooy wasn't scoring in knock-outs and he was scoring all his goals in the group stages. Also note that the July and August qualifiers aren't counted in the above numbers. It's only for CL groups and CL knock-out stages.

Am I wrong in thinking that they are playing many more matches these days than when the CL started?

Would some of the previous (older) players have had more opportunities to have scored more goals?

 

[Nicole]

Am I wrong in thinking that they are playing many more matches these days than when the CL started?

Would some of the previous (older) players have had more opportunities to have scored more goals?

Less actually since there is no double group-stage anymore.

Or if you mean in the very early days then yeah many more games, because there are more and more teams in it.

 

[blondu]

where is she from?

 

[bianconero]

Less actually since there is no double group-stage anymore.

Or if you mean in the very early days then yeah many more games, because there are more and more teams in it.

I meant the very early days, of course.

 

[Nicole]

I meant the very early days, of course.

Much more games now then, since back then you only had 1-2 teams per nation involved and not all nations were involved, in the first few years of the European Cup there were no English teams (for example).

If a team started in the first round (pretty unusual for a top team) and got to the final, they'd probably play 8-10 games more than the first European Cup back in 1955.

 

[Salvatore]

Hah, Litmanen is still playing. Played for his national side in 4 different decades as well.

 

[bianconero]

Much more games now then, since back then you only had 1-2 teams per nation involved and not all nations were involved, in the first few years of the European Cup there were no English teams (for example).

If a team started in the first round (pretty unusual for a top team) and got to the final, they'd probably play 8-10 games more than the first European Cup back in 1955.

Then a % ratio might be interesting.

Plus, let's be honest, the early group stages are rather farcical, dull and predictable: easy pickings for players to score in.

 

[Alen]

Then a % ratio might be interesting.

Plus, let's be honest, the early group stages are rather farcical, dull and predictable: easy pickings for players to score in.

Not as easy as those matches in the first 1-2 knockout rounds back in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's.
Imagine if only champs are playing CL nowdays and Barcelona gets Liechtenstein's champions in round 1, before they get Albania's champs in round 2. Messi can score 20 goals only in those 4 matches

 

[bianconero]

Not as easy as those matches in the first 1-2 knockout rounds back in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's.
Imagine if only champs are playing CL nowdays and Barcelona gets Liechtenstein's champions in round 1, before they get Albania's champs in round 2. Messi can score 20 goals only in those 4 matches

Arsenal normally draw those two in the first group stages.

Your point doesn't hold water, as as it stands Messi will get the equivalent in the group stages before moving onto any real opposition.

 

[Alen]

Arsenal normally draw those two in the first group stages.

Your point doesn't hold water, as as it stands Messi will get the equivalent in the group stages before moving onto any real opposition.

But what was the real opposition back then compared to nowdays?

If we had the old system this year, then in CL 2010/2011, the top favorites would have been Barcelona, Inter, Chelsea, Bayern, Marseille, Benfica and Shakhtar.
Teams like Milan, Juve, Roma, Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool, Real Madrid weren't gonna be in CL.
Until the semis the best teams would have faced weak opposition.

It was the same back then. There were only 5-6 good teams, compared to the last years when at least 10-15 big teams were starting in the competition.

 

[bianconero]

But what was the real opposition back then compared to nowdays?

If we had the old system this year, then in CL 2010/2011, the top favorites would have been Barcelona, Inter, Chelsea, Bayern, Marseille, Benfica and Shakhtar.
Teams like Milan, Juve, Roma, Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool, Real Madrid weren't gonna be in CL.
Until the semis the best teams would have faced weak opposition.

It was the same back then. There were only 5-6 good teams, compared to the last years when at least 10-15 big teams were starting in the competition.

You seem to have missed the gist of the discussion: Does the modern player have more opportunities to score (more games), and more opportunities against easier opposition.

Don't derail: come up with a % ratio if you can be arsed.

 

[Nicole]

You seem to have missed the gist of the discussion: Does the modern player have more opportunities to score (more games), and more opportunities against easier opposition.

Don't derail: come up with a % ratio if you can be arsed.

Not more against easier teams, in the old days it wasn't really rare for a top team to beat a team in the CL 6-0, 7-0 and so on.

And while such results can happen now, they are much more rare - and teams, even lesser teams are much smarter tactically and fitter now.

 

[Nicole]

International football shows this more than ever, 30 years ago teams could win 6-0 and upwards, whereas they almost never happen now.

 

[bianconero]

This season- a quick look, a quick selection:

Group A: Internazionale 4-0 Werder Bremen
Group C: Valencia 6-1 Bursaspor
Group D: Barcelona 5-1 Panathinaikos
Group E: CFR Cluj 0-4 Bayern Munich
Group F: MSK Zilina 0-7 Marseille
Group G: Real Madrid 4-0 Auxerre
Group H: Arsenal 6-0 Braga

 

[Red]

Until the semis the best teams would have faced weak opposition.

Not necessarily.

Unless I'm mistaken, there was no seeding in the European Cup, so top teams could have played each other at any stage.

 

[Nicole]

Lets take a look at the first European Cup in 1955.

First Round:

Sporting CP 5–8 Partizan
Vörös Lobogó 10–4 Anderlecht
Servette 0–7 Real Madrid
Rot-Weiss Essen 1–5 Hibernian
Djurgården 4–1 Gwardia Warszawa
AGF Aarhus 2–4 Stade Reims
Rapid Wien 6–2 PSV Eindhoven
Milan 7–5 Saarbrücken

Quater-Finals

Djurgården 1–4 Hibernian
Stade Reims 8–6 Vörös Lobogó
Real Madrid 4–3 Partizan
Rapid Wien 3–8 Milan

Semi-Finals
Stade Reims 3–0 Hibernian
Real Madrid 5–4 Milan

Final
Real Madrid 4 – 3 Stade Reims

 

[JuveJay]

International football shows this more than ever, 30 years ago teams could win 6-0 and upwards, whereas they almost never happen now.

Although international football is different, teams aren't separated by financial disparity.

 

[bianconero]

Lets take a look at the first European Cup in 1955.

First Round:

Sporting CP 5–8 Partizan
Vörös Lobogó 10–4 Anderlecht
Servette 0–7 Real Madrid
Rot-Weiss Essen 1–5 Hibernian
Djurgården 4–1 Gwardia Warszawa
AGF Aarhus 2–4 Stade Reims
Rapid Wien 6–2 PSV Eindhoven
Milan 7–5 Saarbrücken

Quater-Finals

Djurgården 1–4 Hibernian
Stade Reims 8–6 Vörös Lobogó
Real Madrid 4–3 Partizan
Rapid Wien 3–8 Milan

Semi-Finals
Stade Reims 3–0 Hibernian
Real Madrid 5–4 Milan

Final
Real Madrid 4 – 3 Stade Reims

A lot of high scores, but many still relatively close. Yes, some landslides, but more than I posted from this seasons competition: Doesn't look that way to me.