No I don't know but I know you're a hypocrite and a coward. You know why you're a coward because you haven't answered my question.
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Ciro Ferrara (31 Viewers)
- Thread starter Wahdan
- Start date
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Thank you Wahdan. Of course I agree with you. But I think that if the players are lethargic, then Ferrara should also be blamed because it is his job to motivate them and prepare them well for the match.
Of course keeping Ciro and hoping that he will improve would be the best to do at this moment. But let me tell you guys: I am really worry about our performance. I have been watching Juve for nearly 20 years and I have rarely had this feeling. In the past when Juve were not playing well I still had some faith in our coaches (yes, that even includes Ranieri) because I knew they are experienced and they still have something up their sleeves to change the situation if necessary. With Ferrara I just don't know.
Honestly I am not convinced by our performance so far at all. The nightmare from last year of being vulnarable to counter attack is still haunting us. And this year we have new persisting problems as being unfocused and inactive in dead ball situations or being very slow in carrying out our counter attacks. I remember in the last few years we were able to play a very quick and efficient football against the big teams (ask Real, Inter, Milan, Roma fans and they will tell you what I mean). However this year whenever we have a chance to do a break, it took us like twenty complicated passes/dribbles to get the ball near their box just to lose it again and gave the opponents their golden chance to tear down our central defenders (poor them, but not their fault though). And having two weak full-backs does not help us either. In addition, with the 4-3-1-2, we like to play ball-to-feet, but we sometimes just don't know how to keep possesions and to create open plays and it looks like some of our midfielders still not get used to the new formation yet.
My only hope is that Ferrara would soon realise the existing problems and fix them quickly. There is no more time to experiment. Should he failed in the coming few games, I am afraid that the only option would be to find a replacement, and soon!
Of course keeping Ciro and hoping that he will improve would be the best to do at this moment. But let me tell you guys: I am really worry about our performance. I have been watching Juve for nearly 20 years and I have rarely had this feeling. In the past when Juve were not playing well I still had some faith in our coaches (yes, that even includes Ranieri) because I knew they are experienced and they still have something up their sleeves to change the situation if necessary. With Ferrara I just don't know.
Honestly I am not convinced by our performance so far at all. The nightmare from last year of being vulnarable to counter attack is still haunting us. And this year we have new persisting problems as being unfocused and inactive in dead ball situations or being very slow in carrying out our counter attacks. I remember in the last few years we were able to play a very quick and efficient football against the big teams (ask Real, Inter, Milan, Roma fans and they will tell you what I mean). However this year whenever we have a chance to do a break, it took us like twenty complicated passes/dribbles to get the ball near their box just to lose it again and gave the opponents their golden chance to tear down our central defenders (poor them, but not their fault though). And having two weak full-backs does not help us either. In addition, with the 4-3-1-2, we like to play ball-to-feet, but we sometimes just don't know how to keep possesions and to create open plays and it looks like some of our midfielders still not get used to the new formation yet.
My only hope is that Ferrara would soon realise the existing problems and fix them quickly. There is no more time to experiment. Should he failed in the coming few games, I am afraid that the only option would be to find a replacement, and soon!
last year we had zanetti who knows how to play the long balls for a counter attack, but with ball-hogging players like camoranesi or melo (who does like to dribble more than to play a direct ball) you have a higher possibility of failing at dribbling.
it's clear to see that when you have the chance of going over into a counter attack and people spread out to receive a ball, but the player who should play the ball into the space behind the defense does try to dribble and fails you will be punished, because everybody expected to go into attack and counter and so does miss in the defense.
if you try to play the ball directly when you receive it or disposses an opponent the worst thing that can happen is that it is too wide and the enemy can gets the ball in their own defense... thats not critic, since there are enough players behind the ball to defend
it's clear to see that when you have the chance of going over into a counter attack and people spread out to receive a ball, but the player who should play the ball into the space behind the defense does try to dribble and fails you will be punished, because everybody expected to go into attack and counter and so does miss in the defense.
if you try to play the ball directly when you receive it or disposses an opponent the worst thing that can happen is that it is too wide and the enemy can gets the ball in their own defense... thats not critic, since there are enough players behind the ball to defend
Exactly my point 
. And I don't think that is because now we don't have such players as Zanetti who can initiate accurate long balls. Last year he was injured most of the time but we still had deadly counter attacks at times because we have other players as Marchi, Camo, Nedved, Alex etc. This year in addition to the players above except Nedved we also have Melo who is also capable of sending accurate long balls.
I think the problem is due to our approach, and that's why I blamed Ciro. It seems that either Ciro told them to play slowly in counter attack or they misinterpreted Ciro's idea of possesion football. Possession football should never be used in counter attack and furthermore possession football is not all about dribbling like Camo and Melo do. IMO it is more about variations of passings, ball movements, opening up spaces, varying directions etc. A player should hold up the ball only when he needs to wait for his team mates to open spaces. And he should never try dribbling in dangerous regions like Melo does.
That said, I think one reason for Melo to dribble so much is also due to the bad movement of the whole midfield.
I think he meant the way we played during counter attack.
. And I don't think that is because now we don't have such players as Zanetti who can initiate accurate long balls. Last year he was injured most of the time but we still had deadly counter attacks at times because we have other players as Marchi, Camo, Nedved, Alex etc. This year in addition to the players above except Nedved we also have Melo who is also capable of sending accurate long balls. I think the problem is due to our approach, and that's why I blamed Ciro. It seems that either Ciro told them to play slowly in counter attack or they misinterpreted Ciro's idea of possesion football. Possession football should never be used in counter attack and furthermore possession football is not all about dribbling like Camo and Melo do. IMO it is more about variations of passings, ball movements, opening up spaces, varying directions etc. A player should hold up the ball only when he needs to wait for his team mates to open spaces. And he should never try dribbling in dangerous regions like Melo does.
That said, I think one reason for Melo to dribble so much is also due to the bad movement of the whole midfield.
I think he meant the way we played during counter attack.
I thought i did explain Jack.
I am not on Ciro's shoulders yet, and i just say as it is.
At time when we had players like Molinaro, Marchioni and few oldies when everyone was against them, i was always supporting them all.
Now we greatly improved our squad so we should improve our game play too. Shouldn't we, or is it too much to ask?
If Ciro fails, than you will be very upset with me, because it will mean that i was right about Ranieri.
But that is what you can expect from someone like me who is just coward and hypocrite.
Anyway, i will not reply to any of your post from now on, so get off my back and do some job.
I am not on Ciro's shoulders yet, and i just say as it is.
At time when we had players like Molinaro, Marchioni and few oldies when everyone was against them, i was always supporting them all.
Now we greatly improved our squad so we should improve our game play too. Shouldn't we, or is it too much to ask?
If Ciro fails, than you will be very upset with me, because it will mean that i was right about Ranieri.
But that is what you can expect from someone like me who is just coward and hypocrite.
Anyway, i will not reply to any of your post from now on, so get off my back and do some job.
It' waay too earlly to say that ferrara have failed or not in he's job. We need to wait till the 2nd half of this season "atleast" to really judge the guy. I agree that our performance so far isn't impressive (other than the genoa game) the rest we were either avarege or poor.
But to say that ranieri did a great job is
for real. I mean the guy was on charge of this team for 2 years and yet our team did not progress at all (performance wise). We still sucked in many games (against those weaker teams). And even in the champions league we were lucky at times like the zenit game where they totally dominated the game but thanks to del piero's wonder free kicks we won the game. Plus We've played against one of the worst Real madrid teams that I personaly ever seen in 20 years.
I give credit to ranieri for the Chelsea game nodoubt. But there were so many moments were he really fucked up. Inter's game in turin (last season) comes into my mind, chievo
.
Anyways Ferrara has a pretty tough task in he's hand. He's trying to find the right formation and system for the current team. I give the guy a credit for trying different things. There will be lots of experiments and changes that he'll do to reach the right balance. Lets hope that along the way we'll grap most possible points from our games even if we didn't impress in many of these games.....
But to say that ranieri did a great job is
for real. I mean the guy was on charge of this team for 2 years and yet our team did not progress at all (performance wise). We still sucked in many games (against those weaker teams). And even in the champions league we were lucky at times like the zenit game where they totally dominated the game but thanks to del piero's wonder free kicks we won the game. Plus We've played against one of the worst Real madrid teams that I personaly ever seen in 20 years. I give credit to ranieri for the Chelsea game nodoubt. But there were so many moments were he really fucked up. Inter's game in turin (last season) comes into my mind, chievo
.Anyways Ferrara has a pretty tough task in he's hand. He's trying to find the right formation and system for the current team. I give the guy a credit for trying different things. There will be lots of experiments and changes that he'll do to reach the right balance. Lets hope that along the way we'll grap most possible points from our games even if we didn't impress in many of these games.....
That is a good observation.
In the past few games we have seen a number of possible counter attacks wasted because of "ball hogging". Melo often thinks too long before making his move, leading to players being closed down before a possible pass has been attempted.
I firmly believe this can be fixed though. It's only a small change in approach. After all, the key is knowing when to keep the ball (hogging if you will), and when to play it fast.
In the past few games we have seen a number of possible counter attacks wasted because of "ball hogging". Melo often thinks too long before making his move, leading to players being closed down before a possible pass has been attempted.
I firmly believe this can be fixed though. It's only a small change in approach. After all, the key is knowing when to keep the ball (hogging if you will), and when to play it fast.
To change an entire system and integrate new players is a very difficult task. It takes time. It'll take until the half way point of the season in my opinion until we see this team really working as a unit. Until then we just have to grind out results and win any way we can. And hopefully along the way we'll see the team's performances improve.
Ciro deserves at least until the half way point of the season until we start judging him. I usually don't judge coaches until the very end of the season (especially in the coaches first season at the club) because if a team starts poorly and ends up winning the title, no one is going to remember the bad start.
Ciro deserves at least until the half way point of the season until we start judging him. I usually don't judge coaches until the very end of the season (especially in the coaches first season at the club) because if a team starts poorly and ends up winning the title, no one is going to remember the bad start.
Exactly my point . And I don't think that is because now we don't have such players as Zanetti who can initiate accurate long balls. Last year he was injured most of the time but we still had deadly counter attacks at times because we have other players as Marchi, Camo, Nedved, Alex etc. This year in addition to the players above except Nedved we also have Melo who is also capable of sending accurate long balls.
I think the problem is due to our approach, and that's why I blamed Ciro. It seems that either Ciro told them to play slowly in counter attack or they misinterpreted Ciro's idea of possesion football. Possession football should never be used in counter attack and furthermore possession football is not all about dribbling like Camo and Melo do. IMO it is more about variations of passings, ball movements, opening up spaces, varying directions etc. A player should hold up the ball only when he needs to wait for his team mates to open spaces. And he should never try dribbling in dangerous regions like Melo does.
That said, I think one reason for Melo to dribble so much is also due to the bad movement of the whole midfield.
I think he meant the way we played during counter attack.
. And I don't think that is because now we don't have such players as Zanetti who can initiate accurate long balls. Last year he was injured most of the time but we still had deadly counter attacks at times because we have other players as Marchi, Camo, Nedved, Alex etc. This year in addition to the players above except Nedved we also have Melo who is also capable of sending accurate long balls. I think the problem is due to our approach, and that's why I blamed Ciro. It seems that either Ciro told them to play slowly in counter attack or they misinterpreted Ciro's idea of possesion football. Possession football should never be used in counter attack and furthermore possession football is not all about dribbling like Camo and Melo do. IMO it is more about variations of passings, ball movements, opening up spaces, varying directions etc. A player should hold up the ball only when he needs to wait for his team mates to open spaces. And he should never try dribbling in dangerous regions like Melo does.
That said, I think one reason for Melo to dribble so much is also due to the bad movement of the whole midfield.
I think he meant the way we played during counter attack.
But i dont think thats what we have in mind. We intentionally hold the ball more, keeping possessio n and control. Camo has a completely new role than the one he has as a winger.
Personally i am pleased that we have an extra tactica offensivel option, in the centre of our midfield.
Up untill now we had no such an option.
We just need to calibrate our tactical plan in a more efficient manner. If this is done properly, then the need for desperate long balls, will completely dissipate.
Its not only the huge change in tactics, and any suspicion of failing in Ciro's ability to motivate, that have contributed to our, at best, below average form...It is also down, in no small part, to the injuries we have sustained, to key personnel. Our ideal starting XI, has not played together yet, and the two new jewels in our crown, have not managed to sustain regular fitness...and it shows. Especially when a couple of current first teamers, such as Camo and Amauri, have been in such terrible form. The two brazilians have NOT stepped into a healthy, flowing set-up. Yet I am sure they will both become incredibly powerful players, in a Juve shirt, in the future. Until then, and 'then', is when we have something close to our first team, consistently fit, and playing together for a decent period, we have to, as someone else wrote 'accept that we are in a period of immense transition, and win through playing ugly, if needs be, until then new shape is set in stone'...
There is more to our lethargy, as a team, than Ciro. SPiritually something is wrong. Perhaps its down to the lack of a Leader. In which case, Cannavaro's return cannot come soon enough, because while Chiellini is a King in the Making, he needs Composure of Spirit, next to him, to temper his youthful exuberance. Also...the return to the team of Momo, especially along with a fit Marchisio and Tiago, will make Melo far more comfortable. Those two players will make a huge difference to both our offence and defence...
I agree that there is a definite, horrifying lack of Drive about our team. I hope that Ciro can cure it. But if he can't, and we must rely on results to regain our vitality, then as mentioned before, Momo and Canna's return is essential, and also...HE MUST TRY GIOVINCO IN ATTACK. Preferably alongside Trezeguet...That is my only current problem with Ciro. At least roll the dice before DP is fit enough to start his season properly...
There is more to our lethargy, as a team, than Ciro. SPiritually something is wrong. Perhaps its down to the lack of a Leader. In which case, Cannavaro's return cannot come soon enough, because while Chiellini is a King in the Making, he needs Composure of Spirit, next to him, to temper his youthful exuberance. Also...the return to the team of Momo, especially along with a fit Marchisio and Tiago, will make Melo far more comfortable. Those two players will make a huge difference to both our offence and defence...
I agree that there is a definite, horrifying lack of Drive about our team. I hope that Ciro can cure it. But if he can't, and we must rely on results to regain our vitality, then as mentioned before, Momo and Canna's return is essential, and also...HE MUST TRY GIOVINCO IN ATTACK. Preferably alongside Trezeguet...That is my only current problem with Ciro. At least roll the dice before DP is fit enough to start his season properly...
That's not always true. Palermo changed to a completely new formation to play us with players that have only a fraction of the quality our players have and they still owned us everywhere on the pitch....scored 2 quality goals, shut us out and not to mention we have been playing ours for a few months now.
