Ciro Ferrara (26 Viewers)

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,998
Dule,it is Ferrara's fault at one point, remember the game against Palermo while it was 2-0 he took out both Camoranesi and Diego,Giovinco stayed on the bench and he used De Ceglie and Poulsen than alongside Melo....that was sooooo stupid if you ask me....
Than against Napolihe didn't defend while we were leading by 2-0.
Than playing Giovinco in the last few minutes of the games we already lost...giving the pace while we really don't even need to play just to end the stupid game as soon as possible (Bayern example)....

Sooo many mistakes I can't really understand.
I'm not defending Ferrara, let's just point that out first. If anything, I think he's a pretty bad coach, someone who can't lead us nor any other top club IMO.

I know he made mistakes and I know he's going to make more. I'll make some points below.

That's were a good coach comes in.
Good coach or not, he would make a difference, but it wouldn't be something spectacular. It's just that our team isn't composed to do anything this year. It's not that I wouldn't welcome Guus or any other good coach here but considering the money we'd pay for him I don't think we could gain that much from our performances. We'd look different and there would be some organization but it's not enough, not even close to perfect.

We lack better players and players to cover positions where don't have anybody.
We play a system that fails, 4-3-1-2 is awful and we shouldn't think of playing it...especially with our players. I've said it a couple of times but I guess I'll say it again.

Our fullbacks are mediocre. Grosso ain't nothing but an average player, Grygera doesn't have any attacking abilities while I don't rate Caceres much. We were covered with tons of DMs but now we came to a point where we lack players. There is ONLY Marchisio who can do something, but not if players next to him are lost, and even Marchisio can be invisible very often. Sissoko makes a difference and all but he was injured. Melo, Tiago and Poulsen were fail this season. Now, I don't know if that's Ciro's faul (I still doubt) but with that kind of midfield you can't count on anything serious. 90% of matches it's zero productivity so now you have defenders who are going with long balls and fullbacks who can't do anything up front while attackers can't score. Can a new coach really make a huge difference? I don't think so, not that big...and we'd pay much more.

Bottom line is this: We can't do anything without in-form Camo. We played pretty good when we had Giovinco - Diego - Camo in attacking, didn't we? Well surprise surprise. Our biggest problem is that we have no appropriate players. Ciro's biggest mistake are not our current results, but taking THIS formation. You can't play without wingers, not if you have Grosso's and Grygera's.

Gianluigi Buffon - no complains
Martín Cáceres - inconsistent and goes berserk
Giorgio Chiellini - no complains
Felipe Melo - flop
Fabio Cannavaro - too old, was good at start but now he's very bad
Fabio Grosso - too old, clueless
Hasan Salihamidžic - too old, we have to rely on him when we don't have Camo = sad
Claudio Marchisio - good
Vincenzo Iaquinta - good (sub); not good for lone striker formation
Alessandro Del Piero - was injured
Amauri - can't score -- we lack old Amauri but not possible it seems
Alexander Manninger
Jonathan Zebina - older, always injured
Mauro Camoranesi - old but very good and always injured
David Trézéguet - main poacher, almost always injured
Christian Poulsen - not old Pouseln, so far pretty much a flop
Sebastian Giovinco - good, hard to settle him in some formation
Zdenek Grygera - bad
Mohamed Sissoko - good
Michele Paolucci - average back up
Diego - good
De Ceglie - decent back up
Nicola Legrottaglie - bad

So we have Buffon, Chiellini, Sissoko, Marchisio and Diego. I doubt there could be some coach to revive players because we simply lack wingers, we lack fullbacks. Our team is average and with many flops. Those who are good and who can make big changes are ALWAYS injured and we're stuck with Salihamidzic and co. Players that can't make anything positive out of our misery.

It was just a matter of time before some humiliates us but I was expecting some EPL team tbh, not Bayern.

We started this season with half-broken team and with no formation. This team can only do good if (and that's a big if) when there are no injuries and if they are motivated enough. When you make our starting XI you'd see one sad defense, horrible midfield (Poulsen - Melo - Marchisio) and strikers who can't find the net. On the top of that, the players on who are we supposed to rely on are 32+

Can Hiddink make something better? :confused: Probably, but not so much. I guess the best thing we can do is cheer for team and hope to grab CL spot so we don't lose more money.

Drastic changes are needed and it should start from Blanc.
 

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Mark

The Informer
Administrator
Dec 19, 2003
97,652
still with the right motivation, training and tactics I truly believe a good coach would have us much closer to :inter: than what we are right now. But that's just me.
 

mondo1

Senior Member
May 14, 2006
11,446
i do get your point dooz but first of all it should be the coach who picks the players in the transfer market.... so if he didn't want some wingers and wanted to have melo than that was his first mistake....
secondly he won't win us anything and to make things even worser he won't get us to a cl spot... if we lose against rome i think its over cause the players will lose the last motivation.
so starting with a new coach is the best u can do now...someone who gets the best out of the players and most importantly new motivation... and than has time to find the perfect formation and the players he needs for it...

and you spoke of money a good coach would have taken us easily to the next round that would have made 20 mil.
we could have get kjaer and rafinha or kolarov for that money.....and if we fail to make it to the top 4 we will lose again 20 mil
and maybe some less money for tvrights and ticketsales for next season
 

Dominic

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2004
16,706
still with the right motivation, training and tactics I truly believe a good coach would have us much closer to :inter: than what we are right now. But that's just me.
Your protege above quite astutely proved the opposite. We really have about 4 players that are reliable, but who also sink deeply when surrounded by mediocrity and inconsistency.

The problem lies indeed far beyond Ferrara.
 

Mark

The Informer
Administrator
Dec 19, 2003
97,652
That's being a bit harsh on the players we have. If we can't beat some teams we lost too even with those 4 Juve "material" players then we're really in deep sh*t.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,998
i do get your point dooz but first of all it should be the coach who picks the players in the transfer market.... so if he didn't want some wingers and wanted to have melo than that was his first mistake....
It really really was and I'm not denying that.

secondly he won't win us anything and to make things even worser he won't get us to a cl spot... if we lose against rome i think its over cause the players will lose the last motivation.
Players are average mate, good ones are injured, I don't think any coach would make drastic changes. You simply cannot do anything. Just minor things, so chances are big that we'd waste a lot of money for Hiddink's wages and not achieve much.
 

mondo1

Senior Member
May 14, 2006
11,446
That's being a bit harsh on the players we have. If we can't beat some teams we lost too even with those 4 Juve "material" players then we're really in deep sh*t.
i think we have more than 4 players

buffon chiellini sissoko melo marchisio diego gio dp and trez can still make a difference plus canna wasn't so bad in my opinion i think he was solid for most of the games. injuries really did hurt us but losing to bari chievo and the others there is no excuse
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,947
There is a group of players in our team who deserve to be there:

Buffon

DR - DC - Chiellini - DL

MC - Sissoko - Marchisio

Diego

CF - CF​

The rest are filling in the blanks, we are carrying too many guys. I could exclude Trezeguet from that because even though he doesn't contribute so much to play his goalscoring has been good but he just gets injured too often, Iaquinta also perhaps.
 

mondo1

Senior Member
May 14, 2006
11,446
It really really was and I'm not denying that.



Players are average mate, good ones are injured, I don't think any coach would make drastic changes. You simply cannot do anything. Just minor things, so chances are big that we'd waste a lot of money for Hiddink's wages and not achieve much.
i think they aren't all that bad like we saw at the start of the season... and ofcourse the injuries are hurting us but look at the squad of chievo and co there is no player i really want here.
but don't underestimate a coach change.
it can turn a team complete around....

the thing is what are we going to do now?
the longer ferrara stays the more we go down. my point is a lose against a direct opponent like rom will def. kill the last hope in the team and they will start to get frustrated (if they aren't already..)
you and i don't want to see a camo playing for nothing cause we all know how he does if he is not enjoying his game

and what should we do in the summer? we save some money on the wage but we can not afford to buy 5-6 new players. and of course there is a big chance that we again buy the wrong overpaid players
 

Mark

The Informer
Administrator
Dec 19, 2003
97,652
If you guys are talking about right now then we could see some small sparks in the beginning but the big difference would be seen later.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
74,947
If you guys are talking about right now then we could see some small sparks in the beginning but the big difference would be seen later.
Well yes, form is all important, see Ronaldinho comments. You only have to look around this forum 4 games into the season, they all looked great.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,998
i think we have more than 4 players

buffon chiellini sissoko melo marchisio diego gio dp and trez can still make a difference plus canna wasn't so bad in my opinion i think he was solid for most of the games. injuries really did hurt us but losing to bari chievo and the others there is no excuse
Let's analyze that now.

Buffon was injured but ok that's not even the problem, Manninger is good.
Chiellini is good
Sissoko missed many matches due to injuries and now African Cup
Melo is a flop so far, he can't do anything right and he shouldn't be in that list
Diego ok
Giovinco ok
Del Piero, what, he missed almost the whole season
Trez, same as DP

That leaves you with 4-5 players and again:

Del Piero and Giovinco can't fit in one formation. We can't play 4-2-3-1 when we don't have anyone one the right. So that's one player less.

It's again 3-4 players.

2 out of 4 players in defense are weak (if it's Caceres playing, with Grygera it's 3/4). In midfield it's 2/3 and up front Diego is good with no strikers. That team can't win anything.
 

Byrone

Peen Meister
Dec 19, 2005
30,778
Players are average mate, good ones are injured, I don't think any coach would make drastic changes. You simply cannot do anything. Just minor things, so chances are big that we'd waste a lot of money for Hiddink's wages and not achieve much.
Even if they are you shouldn't underestimate the power of solid tactics & good man management.Our team is completely lost & you can't blame them.How are we ever gonna get the best of Diego & Giovinco if they don't know what their basic positions will be?

Also they have lost tons of motivation & clearly Ciro hasn't gotten any close to get inside the players heads.Bringing in a new coach will create competition for places & actually motivate the players to perform in order to gain a starting spot.FFS this a WC year,these players should be performing on all cylinders to convince their respective national team coaches to include them in their national teams,for the WC.
 

mondo1

Senior Member
May 14, 2006
11,446
Let's analyze that now.

Buffon was injured but ok that's not even the problem, Manninger is good.
Chiellini is good
Sissoko missed many matches due to injuries and now African Cup
Melo is a flop so far, he can't do anything right and he shouldn't be in that list
Diego ok
Giovinco ok
Del Piero, what, he missed almost the whole season
Trez, same as DP

That leaves you with 4-5 players and again:

Del Piero and Giovinco can't fit in one formation. We can't play 4-2-3-1 when we don't have anyone one the right. So that's one player less.

It's again 3-4 players.

2 out of 4 players in defense are weak (if it's Caceres playing, with Grygera it's 3/4). In midfield it's 2/3 and up front Diego is good with no strikers. That team can't win anything.
ah sorry i was talking about the squad itselfs and not current form/injuries.
cause if you look at the last seasons/ when they are in form that list should be bigger....
and than again i ask myself how a team can have so much injuries at the same time... there must be something wrong too.



and if u see a squad like milan winning their games in style right now you really realise that something isn't working... i would say overall our squad is better than milans but than again milans player do fit in a system that ferrara will never find
 

Dominic

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2004
16,706
That's being a bit harsh on the players we have. If we can't beat some teams we lost too even with those 4 Juve "material" players then we're really in deep sh*t.
Too many holes in the team, we played better when these holes were filled adequately; see Camo or Sissoko's presence.

Yet even then we still had a lot of mediocrities in the first 11.
 

Mark

The Informer
Administrator
Dec 19, 2003
97,652
We all know the mercato should have been better but I still believe we'd be doing a better job with a good coach if we stated the year with one. I said it many times and even too much that got me in "trouble" that Blanc, Elkann, Secco should go.
 

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