Champions League 2023-24 (28 Viewers)

[s4tch]

It feels like other than City, every other major CL team is significantly worse than they were 5-10 years ago

it also feels like today's football is lacking individual talent. since it's a feeling it might be just me but i honestly couldn't be able to select a potential jj starting lineup that would be stronger than our 2015 cl finalist team, not even on an unlimited budget. who's better than chiellini or barzagli? rodri might be the next vidal, where's the next pirlo or pogba? and that's only juventus. i still consider modric a top10 cm, and i have no idea who are those random players who get sold above 60-70m in the premier league. argentina won the world cup with two players we'll remember in 10 years. etc

 

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[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Maybe.

This game could have ended 7-0 though. It was a cat toying with a mouse.

Didn't watch the game so I'll take your word for it

I disagree, but I may have a more biased approach.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

it also feels like today's football is lacking individual talent. since it's a feeling it might be just me but i honestly couldn't be able to select a potential jj starting lineup that would be stronger than our 2015 cl finalist team, not even on an unlimited budget. who's better than chiellini or barzagli? rodri might be the next vidal, where's the next pirlo or pogba? and that's only juventus. i still consider modric a top10 cm, and i have no idea who are those random players who get sold above 60-70m in the premier league. argentina won the world cup with two players we'll remember in 10 years. etc

Yeah I agree

Imo there's a shortage of top players in what feels like every position

Ignoring Messi and CR as they were outliers, where are all the replacements for the world class players from the 2010s? I feel like if you looked at the Spanish & German teams from a decade ago those 2 nations alone had more world class midfielders than there are today. Period.

Maybe the biggest reason is that individuality has been getting stamped out of players for an entire generation now. Coaches don't like individuality. It's all about taking the safe option, I imagine it's the same at the grassroots level now.

 

[icemaη]

Yeah I agree

Imo there's a shortage of top players in what feels like every position

Ignoring Messi and CR as they were outliers, where are all the replacements for the world class players from the 2010s? I feel like if you looked at the Spanish & German teams from a decade ago those 2 nations alone had more world class midfielders than there are today. Period.

Maybe the biggest reason is that individuality has been getting stamped out of players for an entire generation now. Coaches don't like individuality. It's all about taking the safe option, I imagine it's the same at the grassroots level now.

There is still one coach who loves individual brilliance

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

There is still one coach who loves individual brilliance

This is true. The man in question seems to be enthralled by the way Sandro dances & weaves his way out of the back line to create an unlimited amount of chances (for the opposition)

How else would he be an undisputed starter for years.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

it also feels like today's football is lacking individual talent. since it's a feeling it might be just me but i honestly couldn't be able to select a potential jj starting lineup that would be stronger than our 2015 cl finalist team, not even on an unlimited budget. who's better than chiellini or barzagli? rodri might be the next vidal, where's the next pirlo or pogba? and that's only juventus. i still consider modric a top10 cm, and i have no idea who are those random players who get sold above 60-70m in the premier league. argentina won the world cup with two players we'll remember in 10 years. etc

https://www.europeangoldenboy.com/golden-boy-index/

- - - Updated - - -

No individual talent listed.

 

[s4tch]

pardon my english, maybe i wasn't completely clear. lacking in my book doesn't mean absolutely lacking, but lacking compared to the talent pool a decade ago.

anyway thanks for the confirmation, not even a decade ago juventus almost had more quality than those lists combined. sancho 2nd, kean and lunin top15 talents, i don't think i should add anything else

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

pardon my english, maybe i wasn't completely clear. lacking in my book doesn't mean absolutely lacking, but lacking compared to the talent pool a decade ago.

anyway thanks for the confirmation, not even a decade ago juventus almost had more quality than those lists combined. sancho 2nd, kean and lunin top15 talents, i don't think i should add anything else

I guess it's all perspective. Your English is fine.

I meant more like: Haaland has the potential to be the best player to ever play his position. Gavi and Pedri could be the next Xavi/Iniesta. England as a country has literally never had the talent depth they do now. Germany's talent pool has fallen since 2014's WC win. France has enough depth to take two teams to the WC and each be top 4. Morocco and Algeria are on the come-up with talent pools, Eastern Europe always has dimes, especially Croatia. Netherlands and Belgium will produce great players constantly.

Don't miss the forest for the trees.

Italy hasn't produced many amazing talents in years because their youth programs are trash.

Who is the next Pogba, you said? Camivinga.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

it also feels like today's football is lacking individual talent. since it's a feeling it might be just me but i honestly couldn't be able to select a potential jj starting lineup that would be stronger than our 2015 cl finalist team, not even on an unlimited budget. who's better than chiellini or barzagli? rodri might be the next vidal, where's the next pirlo or pogba? and that's only juventus. i still consider modric a top10 cm, and i have no idea who are those random players who get sold above 60-70m in the premier league. argentina won the world cup with two players we'll remember in 10 years. etc

I feel that's partly down to how football has evolved in the last 10 years or so, its as if coaches want players to fit into a system more than building a system around individuals. There will never be another chiellini or barzagli because they were never known for their passing ability which is seemingly a attribute a lot of manager rank highly in their ideal defender nowadays, I mean it's not even uncommon to see mids in defence purely for this reason alone.
A new pirlo, xavi or hell iniesta even is a once in a generation thing, is there one out there now? Probably not but there are a number of worthy youngsters like Bellingham, Musiala, Gavi who should they stay relatively injury free and keep with their upwards trajectory could be mentioned under the same breath as past players.

 

[Mohad]

I guess it's all perspective. Your English is fine.

I meant more like: Haaland has the potential to be the best player to ever play his position. Gavi and Pedri could be the next Xavi/Iniesta. England as a country has literally never had the talent depth they do now. Germany's talent pool has fallen since 2014's WC win. France has enough depth to take two teams to the WC and each be top 4. Morocco and Algeria are on the come-up with talent pools, Eastern Europe always has dimes, especially Croatia. Netherlands and Belgium will produce great players constantly.

Don't miss the forest for the trees.

Italy hasn't produced many amazing talents in years because their youth programs are trash.

Who is the next Pogba, you said? Camivinga.

Not even close.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Not even close.

What's not even close? Camivinga?

How do you want to compare?

 

[Mohad]

What's not even close? Camivinga?

How do you want to compare?

I was referring to Gavi and Pedri; the overhype makes no sense.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Let's wait until they are 25/26/27.

I think Xavi and Pirlo were the best 6s in a long time, Pirlo revolutionized the DLP.

 

[Strickland]

I like Musiala a lot,imo he's one of the brightest young talents out there

 

[Bjerknes]

Not going to lie, I really dislike Real Madrid and England. But watching Jude Bellingham at Real as #5 playing a free role behind the strikers does bring back some memories of you know who. The dude doesn't even play like a typical English player, probably because he isn't really English when it comes his upbringing in the sport. He's much more intelligent and finds spaces so easily. It's actually sort of cool to see them bring back that classic #10 sort of role behind the strikers, after all that's where most of my fave players played and where I got the most joy playing any sport. Pacey, flashy wingers are just so boring to me sometimes.

 

[ALC]

Not going to lie, I really dislike Real Madrid and England. But watching Jude Bellingham at Real as #5 playing a free role behind the strikers does bring back some memories of you know who. The dude doesn't even play like a typical English player, probably because he isn't really English when it comes his upbringing in the sport. He's much more intelligent and finds spaces so easily. It's actually sort of cool to see them bring back that classic #10 sort of role behind the strikers, after all that's where most of my fave players played and where I got the most joy playing any sport. Pacey, flashy wingers are just so boring to me sometimes.

to your last point, it depends on the player. Robben is one of my all time faves for example. And he was basically a pacey winger

 

[Bjerknes]

to your last point, it depends on the player. Robben is one of my all time faves for example. And he was basically a pacey winger

I think Robben's different because he wasn't just all pace. I'm talking more like the types of Sancho. Robben had a dope left foot, too.

 

[Rockets]

Among all the positions, GK is simply the most barren of talents. There ain't no generational talent after Neuer. Courtois is good but far from being legendary.

Also this is a time when passing ability of a GK, his role in the build-up play are valued more than ever, but perhaps overvalued. People no longer talk about the fundamentals of GK.

 

[Seven]

it also feels like today's football is lacking individual talent. since it's a feeling it might be just me but i honestly couldn't be able to select a potential jj starting lineup that would be stronger than our 2015 cl finalist team, not even on an unlimited budget. who's better than chiellini or barzagli? rodri might be the next vidal, where's the next pirlo or pogba? and that's only juventus. i still consider modric a top10 cm, and i have no idea who are those random players who get sold above 60-70m in the premier league. argentina won the world cup with two players we'll remember in 10 years. etc

I disagree.

I believe two factors are skewing the perspective:

1. The general level of players has risen dramatically. Watch a full game from 15 years and you'll notice an increase in athleticism, but also in skill in what you could call 'lesser' players. It is simply more difficult to stand out.
2. You can only really judge a player after his career. This tends to make us overestimate the ability of players of previous generations and underestimate the abilities of players of the current generation.

 

[s4tch]

2. You can only really judge a player after his career.

that's factually wrong with so many stats being recorded since more than a decade. for a quick and dirty example you could easily tell within 2 minutes if there was any player in the top5 leagues who averaged 5 tackles per game and could score 10 goals during a full season like vidal was capable of. and there's zero players like him. you can also compare full teams or let's say a complete midfield based on their performances.

of course stats aren't everything, they ignore mentality, leadership, off the ball movements and many non quantifiable things, they still provide a useful baseline for similar comparisons. you know whether an in form de ligt was comparable to top chiellini. you know for a fact how van dijk's performance dropped throughout the last few seasons and how he never matched barzagli's consistency over almost a decade. and if there was a barzagli in the making hiding somewhere, giuntoli (and everyone with a brain and an opta subscription) would be aware of him.

athleticism is on a different level, i agree. skill though... i watched a bit of a random pl game the other day, and while they ran like madmen indeed, they were shit with the ball and it wasn't even funny. many countries find difficulties in selecting enough talent, because young rich west european dudes care more about playstation and fashion than playing sports. that's a real problem agnelli repeated many times and if you look at the state of the italian nt's you'll agree. there are individual counter examples, scalvini or baldanzi are bloody talented, the fact still remains: with every passing year, less guys want to be pro footballers

anyway, i like to be wrong on my pessimistic views, so as always, i hope that we'll see a juventus with more quality than the 2015 team in the next decade. if there are so many talents and the general level of players gets better with every year, then it's not impossible