Catenaccio vs Total Football (18 Viewers)

[Red]

No one plays 'total football' anymore. The closest you get to it is when a team keeps the two centre halfs and a holding midfielder in place and then allow the other players a lot of freedom.

In some ways I think it is great to watch catenaccio as it is usually used against good teams and I like watching top attackers having to work and not just be left in heaps of spae all the time.

 

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[Seven]

Who knows.

That's not entirely true though, is it? His main position was where the coach put him at the start of the match. He was given the assignment to use his attacking power when the opportunity arose, but that's a different ball game.

For example: Cruyff would spend 30 minutes on #10, the next 15 minutes as a pure striker and the entire second half as a controlling midfielder (sudden shifts in the game disregarded). Zambrotta didn't have that kind of freedom. Nobody does anymore in today's game.

Thing is Lippi put Zambrotta right back, but allowed him to take on the entire wing whenever he wanted to. If he went forward, someone else would cover. Italy's tactical scheme was more "fixed" than total football, but it's not as if the players couldn't move either. Besides in the game against Ukraine Zambrotta started out as a right back, went on to play right midfield and ended up as a left back.

 

[Jun-hide]

Thing is Lippi put Zambrotta right back, but allowed him to take on the entire wing whenever he wanted to. If he went forward, someone else would cover. Italy's tactical scheme was more "fixed" than total football, but it's not as if the players couldn't move either. Besides in the game against Ukraine Zambrotta started out as a right back, went on to play right midfield and ended up as a left back.

Lippi only allowed Zambrotta forward because (1) he is an unbelievable player and (2) certain opponents weren't so good at defending. I feel Lippi gave his player difference in freedom depending on the type of opposition Italia faced. Against Ukraine, Zambrotta often patrolled as if he was a winger. But against Germany, and up against fantastic attacking full-back Phillipe Lahm, Zambrotta naturally played more cautionary role, leaving Camoranesi to attack instead (who was oustanding). He then compensated lack of width down the right hand side by correctly perceiving Arne Friedrich to be the weak link in the German side and relentlessly pushed forward Grosso knowing he had Friedrich number anytime of the day.

I feel modern day coaching is all about adjustment. If you got a team with particular characteristics you balance up your own strength and oppositions. Lippi is simply the master of getting this right, and he simply out-manouvered every opposition bar U.S.A in the WC.

 

[Slagathor]

Lippi only allowed Zambrotta forward because (1) he is an unbelievable player and (2) certain opponents weren't so good at defending. I feel Lippi gave his player difference in freedom depending on the type of opposition Italia faced. Against Ukraine, Zambrotta often patrolled as if he was a winger. But against Germany, and up against fantastic attacking full-back Phillipe Lahm, Zambrotta naturally played more cautionary role, leaving Camoranesi to attack instead (who was oustanding). He then compensated lack of width down the right hand side by correctly perceiving Arne Friedrich to be the weak link in the German side and relentlessly pushed forward Grosso knowing he had Friedrich number anytime of the day.

I have nothing to add to that. You were right by pointing out modern teams leave the inventions to one or two all-round players and in Italy's squad, Zambrotta was one of them.

But that has very little to do with Total Football.

 

[Bjerknes]

Lippi is simply the master of getting this right, and he simply out-manouvered every opposition bar U.S.A in the WC.

:strong:

 

[flieeeekke]

what do you mean?? you like barca and you say that they play shit???

i dont like barca. i dislike real madrid more.

 

[Jun-hide]

I have nothing to add to that. You were right by pointing out modern teams leave the inventions to one or two all-round players and in Italy's squad, Zambrotta was one of them.

But that has very little to do with Total Football.

I agree with you Erik, but I never really bought the whole notion of idealized Total Football. In modern gameas you mentioned correctly, has to find the balance between the formation and freedom. I feel freedom is sought in individual talent and subjucating the rest to rigid tactical system. You just can't expect teams to play total football when the result is on line.

As much as anythingelse, I don't the identity of team matters that much in a knock out competition. If you got certain opposition, then adjust to them. The thing about Lippi is he doesnt have tactical manuel that tells him what to do when oppostion play 4-4-2 when in fact there are many ways to play 4-4-2, which sets him apart from downright mediocre ones such as Zach. Lippi sees the game as it is not in some convenient map, and makes adjustment accordingly. That is how the game is going to go IMHO.

Andy,
its hard to manouvre when the opposition runs all-over like the Americans do. I don't care what people say about U.S.A. but those atheletes are ultra-fit! Just need to work a bit on creativie side though. You guys play like soldiers not artists.

 

[metalhead]

Total football doesnt seem too good in getting results. At least Inter got 2 European Cups before it was proclaimed dead, while the Dutch won nothing with total football.

And before somebody jumps at me, Milan of the 80s and Barca dont play total football because its still a rigid system just like Jun explained so clearly.

PS. Jun-hide, your posts are simply amazing, RESPECT