Capello to Juve: a contradiction? (1 Viewer)

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#81
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


"Luck" is the consolation whine most often employed by losers (such as any big ManU supporters might prove case and point). It's a cop out. It's a feeble attempt to assuage the pain of failure.

It's never, "We got beat by a better team, despite the fact that the budget for our individual players was several times theirs." It's, "We should have won if not for that darn luck factor. What could we do?" <hands in the air helplessly>

Screw luck. ManU should swallow the big bitter pill of losing and inferiority that they deserve this year. No excuses. Get over it. Fess up and take it like men.

Juve fans have seen us lose enough CLs in our history. But whining about some myserious, act-of-God luck factor would never get us anywhere. We lost those games to Milan, Dortmund, etc. Nothing is going to change that, and nothing should. Worthy teams make their luck. Losers don't, complain about it, and dwell on it long after the trophy has been engraved.

If it's so simple to win the CL by "lowering" your squad's tactics to the level of FC Porto, how come no one was able to succeed at beating them?

I don't mean any of this as a personal attack, but there's been so much denial and rationalization in the CL threads here this year because Porto doesn't have the marquis players, the huge budget, doesn't come from a big money league, etc. Is it so hard to conceive that calcio is a team sport where team tactics, rather than individual performances, matter? To say that a team doesn't deserve a championship, that they fairly won on the pitch, just because they don't have enough endorsement-ready players or that they were "lucky" is asinine.
Well all you have said is all fine and dandy but the fact still remains that they enjoyed a huge slice of luck as all the big teams fell by the way side one way or the other

They were lucky to get out of their group as Drogba's free kick in the last minute just shaved the post and that would have put them out

Scholes's goal was wrong ruled out for offside and if Howard had done better on the free kick , Costandinha won't have scored the goal and they would have been out

Real Madrid gave them a football lesson in Portugal winning 3-1 and really Andrade should not have been sent off when they met Depor

Who knows what would have happened if he had played as well as Mauro Silva

They also in the final got to meet another inexperienced team but fair play to them they won it

Its not as easy as you are making out to be , that becos they don't have the marquee players then ppl are saying they were lucky but the fact of the matter is that they were lucky with their path to success

Its like telling me that Millwall , by getting to the final of the Fa cup are good, no they were lucky with the draws they kept giving them

Porto and Mourinho have done excellently to have achieved what they have but I would never pay to watch them as they bore you to tears

I will always view football as entertainment as I do not have any financial stake in it so its not that really important to me if you paly crap and win, I always wanna be entertained
 

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Togon

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2003
511
#82
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


I don't mean any of this as a personal attack, but there's been so much denial and rationalization in the CL threads here this year because Porto doesn't have the marquis players, the huge budget, doesn't come from a big money league, etc. Is it so hard to conceive that calcio is a team sport where team tactics, rather than individual performances, matter? To say that a team doesn't deserve a championship, that they fairly won on the pitch, just because they don't have enough endorsement-ready players or that they were "lucky" is asinine.
Following this analogy in wc2002 Germany has nothing to thank to luck, they had well deserved to play in the WC final, cause they beat such teams as USA (with the huge help of the ref, as Porto beat Manu)
and than had no real opposition till the final, cause the stronger teams already falled out in contraversial circumstances (like Milan, which was deservedly beaten by Depor the 2nd leg, but should have go thru if they hadnt been the victim of the most cynical linesman I ever saw).

The difference is: the germans were deservedly beaten by a better team (, while Porto won easily playing the contrafootball after the early injury of Giuly and a clearly onside Morientes goalchance called offside by
the ref.

As I said, I adore Mourinho, I accept they did everything well, but It shouldnt had been enough even for the semi final without all the luck they had.

(sorry for the grammar)
 

Juve_Kosova

★ ★ ★
May 4, 2004
11,622
#83
++ [ originally posted by Togon ] ++



In this aspect you are certainly wrong, Lippi came to Juve for the first time in 1994, after legendary coach left:
Giovanni Trapattoni 1991-1994
Marcello Lippi 1994-98

he started to win trophies right after his arrival, with a team highlighted by the names like Deschampes, Jugovic, Vialli, Baggio and the very young DP

94-95 scudetto
95-96 Champions League
1996 European Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup
96-97 scudetto

the second time he coached Juventus (2001-2004), he started with three big signings: Buffon, Nedved, Thuram, and he kept winning.

2001-2002 scudetto
2002-2003 scudetto

So all I want to say is, and thats pretty obvious, Lippi didnt need ten years to build this team, he just worked with what he got, and strenghtened it as he could, or as he thought it was needed. I think the same can be done by Capello.
agree, and + u forgot to write that he was in the cl final 97 + 98 + 2003 and that is big to, even if we lost all of them :(
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,690
#84
of course there's luck, luck follows football wherever you see it but come on, don't use that as an excuse. Porto was lucky against MU yes but what was important is that they got that decisive goal against MU, and that's that, lucky or not. Juventus were 'lucky' against depor but it was a valid tudor goal all right, and that's that. It's one of the things in football you could not change.

Oh btw, I agree. Porto is such a bore to watch. And I thought people were still complaining bout Italians playing football :rolleyes: :D
 
OP
baggio

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #85
    Ok guys, now soccerage is stating Capello wants Cannavaro at Juve, for which hes willing to sacrifice Thuram. I dont see how that is going to help Juve in the long run. All the reports only seem to be indicative of players like Vieri, Cannavaro and the likes coming in, so Capello gets his chance of working with them, since he dint have the opportunity to do so at Roma. There hasnt been any news linking us with any upcoming starlets, isnt that going to hurt us in a season or 2....if these moves are completed?!
     

    azizhen

    New Member
    Aug 18, 2003
    34
    #86
    For some reason I trust in Capello and the juve management. If we loose out on certain starlets this season, there will always be next season and somehow there will always be new starlets coming from nowhere. Players like Cannavaro and Vieri are simply legendary - nobody can dispute that. Dont forget for how long they have been superstars for. Cannavaro especially is one of those players that you simply dont turn down. Imagine what he can do for players like legrotaglie.Yes they are old, but you can just tell how long a player will last and players like Vieri and Cannavaro seem as if they have many years in them - unlike Montero's and Ferraras.
     

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