Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (53 Viewers)

[gsol]

Now we wait 90 days for the motives of the verdict. Moggi’s team will prepare an appeal, and the process will start up again. No good will come of it.
Everyone with influence is doing their best to walk away from this thing. Sooner or later everyone will. That will be that.

 

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[JCK]

JCK, think what you want but don’t say that evidence confirmed Moggi’s guilt. The evidence confirmed that he made legal phone calls. Using your analogy, if you drove with traffic and one day the law changed and a recording showed that you were going with traffic in an area deemed illegal after the fact you would find it quite unfair to be condemned for it.

What I meant to say there is that they said he is guilty with the evidence provided where at the same time I clearly said that I don't know what is required to judge one guilty or not.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Guys I had no access to anything yesterday and am catching up on 35 pages here.

My opinion? I’m not shocked. I said a long time ago to not get caught up in all the evidence that favored us because civil court or not, this is Italy. I remember saying that this thing would be settled by the rich and influential amidst flowing wine and cigar smoke and the verdict really supports that. Think about it. Every powerful entity involved from the police, to Juventus, Inter, FIGC, Telecom, etc walked away content and the powerless individuals were burned alive.

Some of the arguments here are a little sketchy. Juventus being cleared and Moggi being convicted will help our case in no way in terms of getting the titles back. It only means the club won’t have to pay the teams like Brescia and Bologna that were trying to sue Juventus. According to the civil court the season was still tarnished therefore the title is no closer to us than before.

Compensation? Who would pay? Clearly Moggi being absolved would have been far better for the team. That would have left the team and Moggi as well as others open to liability suits against Auricchio and eventually other parties like the FIGC, Telecom etc. Care to imagine why the court didn’t go for that?

Inter relegated and similar requests. Just stop. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. They are not on trial and will never be thanks to the statute of limitations. That ship sailed a long time ago.

UEFA and European courts are a non issue. UEFA want nothing to do with it and there are several levels of Italian courts to go through before the EU becomes possible. We are years away from that. Moggi will appeal but it has to be domestic first and with how slow the wheels turn over there, we will be reading headlines and dates regarding the appeals for another couple of years.

JCK, think what you want but don’t say that evidence confirmed Moggi’s guilt. The evidence confirmed that he made legal phone calls. Using your analogy, if you drove with traffic and one day the law changed and a recording showed that you were going with traffic in an area deemed illegal after the fact you would find it quite unfair to be condemned for it.

so in another words the future is bleak for us?

 

[Azzurri7]

The thing is I am respecting his and anyone's opinion while a few others aren't. And the fact that the word "guilty" has to be brought up is somehow strange as I said that I cannot use the word as I have no idea about anything related to the legal system in Italy and why he was judged guilty. I already explained that for me he was doing something the others were doing and that does not make it right. The accusations that he was running a system and fixing matches are all bullshit for me, I have never even mentioned them as they are obviously fabrications but still some are feeding them in my mouth.

So I take it you hate Moggi for calling ref designator(something that is legal)? And more importantly since you don't see him as guilty and never fixed matches why you don't defend him on that part? Also, why don't you show some appreciation to the work he's doing and still by trying to clean Juve's reputation all alone?

It's one thing to see him doing wrong in some certain things and it's another thing not defending the man who has given a lot to this club and is still the only one fighting for it's right against the likes of Moratti.

You're really not making yourself clear.

 

[Hust]

For the upteenth time, it's only stupid if you don't understand what objective liability is!

Not everything employees do should drag the employer down with them, you know..

Let's say you own a car repair shop and you hire some 18 year old kid who, when you're not looking, takes one of the cars that are in for repair out for a drive and then crashes into a crowd of people and kills a couple of them. This scenario is based on one of the many cases of objective liability I've studied in norwegian law, and the Supreme Court ruled that the employee had acted too far away from his assigned tasks to make his employer objectively liable.

I will admit to the fact that Moggi's actions were closer to his actual tasks than what this stupid kid did, so the cases can't really be compared fully, but the court in Naples still found that Juventus could not be identified with Moggi's actions.

So no, according to the Naples trial, Moggi's actions were not Juve's actions, and therefore, legally, Moggi can be found guilty while at the same time Juve can go free.

Exactly. If I decide, as a superior, to fratenize with someone below me or, another example, embezzle money from my nightly deposits little by little, it would be ME that gets punished because I acted on my own accord meaning the company had nothing to do with me having a sexual relationship with someone below me or me stealing money.

That's how I look at it. Yesterday's verdict basically says that Moggi acted on his own without the clubs permission or the club knowing about it making him the sole guilty actor in the entire scandal (based off of the judges verdict). The club "didn't know he was doing it" therefore can't be guilty since it wasn't authorized. No one in the club was an accomplice, Moggi acted on his own hence the club is "clean". That's what the judge's verdict means I think and that SHOULD ALSO mean that there are some other rats that need to be brought to justice and "things" restored to their "rightful" place.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

so in another words the future is bleak for us?

No, just move on.

 

[DVS]

http://english.gazzetta.it/Football/09-11-2011/let-s-return-to-football-803645739709.shtml

Decent article in GDS if anyone wants to read it

 

[Jem83]

Guys I had no access to anything yesterday and am catching up on 35 pages here.

My opinion? I’m not shocked. I said a long time ago to not get caught up in all the evidence that favored us because civil court or not, this is Italy. I remember saying that this thing would be settled by the rich and influential amidst flowing wine and cigar smoke and the verdict really supports that. Think about it. Every powerful entity involved from the police, to Juventus, Inter, FIGC, Telecom, etc walked away content and the powerless individuals were burned alive.

Some of the arguments here are a little sketchy. Juventus being cleared and Moggi being convicted will help our case in no way in terms of getting the titles back. It only means the club won’t have to pay the teams like Brescia and Bologna that were trying to sue Juventus. According to the civil court the season was still tarnished therefore the title is no closer to us than before.
Compensation? Who would pay? Clearly Moggi being absolved would have been far better for the team. That would have left the team and Moggi as well as others open to liability suits against Auricchio and eventually other parties like the FIGC, Telecom etc. Care to imagine why the court didn’t go for that?

Inter relegated and similar requests. Just stop. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. They are not on trial and will never be thanks to the statute of limitations. That ship sailed a long time ago.

UEFA and European courts are a non issue. UEFA want nothing to do with it and there are several levels of Italian courts to go through before the EU becomes possible. We are years away from that. Moggi will appeal but it has to be domestic first and with how slow the wheels turn over there, we will be reading headlines and dates regarding the appeals for another couple of years.

JCK, think what you want but don’t say that evidence confirmed Moggi’s guilt. The evidence confirmed that he made legal phone calls. Using your analogy, if you drove with traffic and one day the law changed and a recording showed that you were going with traffic in an area deemed illegal after the fact you would find it quite unfair to be condemned for it.

There's no way of reaching such a conclusion now. Juventus will present their own case and there's no doubt that being not found objectively liable will help the club in the quest for the scudetti. The club can now both point to this and the fact that a civil court has convicted Moggi for actions that Facchetti and Meani etc. have also done. Meaning that there are no grounds on which Inter should keep the title.

That is an entirely different case altogether and there's no telling now what the outcome will be. The Naples trial was about something else.

 

[JCK]

So I take it you hate Moggi for calling ref designator(something that is legal)? And more importantly since you don't see him as guilty and never fixed matches why you don't defend him on that part? Also, why don't you show some appreciation to the work he's doing and still by trying to clean Juve's reputation all alone?

It's one thing to see him doing wrong in some certain things and it's another thing not defending the man who has given a lot to this club and is still the only one fighting for it's right against the likes of Moratti.

I did not say that I hate him for calling the referee designator or made any other phone call, I actually said I never liked him ever since he was appointed. The phone calls appeared years after that so the two things are not related. I simply don't like him. Later on, I did not like that he made phone calls which made it EASIER for others to nail him and damage the club.

I will not show any appreciation to the work he is doing because I PERSONALLY think that he is doing it to clear himself not to clear Juventus regardless of what he says or others believe.

Last but not least, I am not being unthankful for him to what he did to the club, his work while he was here is highly appreciated.

And finally, I don't give a fuck about Moratti, he has always been a cunt and will always be one.

 

[Jem83]

Moggi is now completely out of the frame. I've always supported him, but my love for Juve is blind. All that is left now is Juve's quest for the scudetti. Juve has some very good arguments and must go all in. Death or glory.

 

[Azzurri7]

I did not say that I hate him for calling the referee designator or made any other phone call, I actually said I never liked him ever since he was appointed. The phone calls appeared years after that so the two things are not related. I simply don't like him. Later on, I did not like that he made phone calls which made it EASIER for others to nail him and damage the club.

Fair enough then. Didn't know you never liked him ever since he was appointed. I thought it all started after calciopoli.

 

[JCK]

Fair enough then. Didn't know you never liked him ever since he was appointed. I thought it all started after calciopoli.

I said it just today but you probably missed it because you wanted to ask me to show you evidence and phone calls.

 

[Jem83]

I know the club is trying and they made a statement yesterday that they will work on getting the titles back. I, however, don't think we will get them back but it doesn't matter when everyone knows that we won them.

Hehe, can't blame you for that, Jack. I have my doubts myself. It's normal, as we have been shitted on for the past 5 years. But I'm superhappy that the Agnelli-regime wants to press on for the titles. Let's just see how it goes

 

[Hust]

JCK and Rab made up?

 

[gsol]

In this trial the judges cast aside the following:
1) Evidence tampering
2) Prosecution witnesses contradicting themselves (Auricchio, Nucini, Zemen, Baldini, etc.)
3) Proof of regular and legitimate referee selection processes
4) Thousands of calls confirming no exclusivity
5) Geographical certainties that made the SIM card claims impossible
6) Evidence that yellow carded players presumed suspended for upcoming matches against Juve actually playing
7) Many other things that would take too long to list.

Thus far we know that the sentence was based on the following:

a) Association with intent to defraud
b) Udinese-Brescia - yellow cards on Pinzi-Muntari-Di Michele (who all played against us the following week) and Jankulovski’s red carrd for punching a Brescia player
c) Juventus – Lazio – interfereing with referee selection (process proven legitimate in court)
d) Fiorentina – Bologna – interfering with referee selections (see above) and yellows for Petruzzi and Nastase (seriously?)
e) Juve – Milan – SIM card contact with referee Bertini (proven impossible in a separate trial)
f) Cagliari – Juve – no phone call but Auruicchio testified that Cellino was upset and complained about the way Racalbuto officiated (proof?)
g) Juve – Udinese – interfering with referee selection process (again see above)
h) Roma – Juve – no details or explanations…it was just listed
i) Chievo – Fioretina – no details again just listed

 

[JCK]

JCK and Rab made up?

We were never enemies, I just thought it annoying that he chose not to respect other's opinions.

 

[gsol]

Jem I can’t see how this will help them get a title back. They won’t have to pay damages to other teams. That’s as far as I see it going. The rest is Agnelli pacifying the fans. We’ll get nothing in my opinion. Maybe Inter will lose the paper title but I don’t see us getting it reassigned with the FIGC being what it is.

 

[Jem83]

Jem I can’t see how this will help them get a title back. They won’t have to pay damages to other teams. That’s as far as I see it going. The rest is Agnelli pacifying the fans. We’ll get nothing in my opinion. Maybe Inter will lose the paper title but I don’t see us getting it reassigned with the FIGC being what it is.

We'll let Juve's lawyers worry about that. Even though if all that happens is that Inter officially lose their paper title, then it will do the image of Juventus a whole lot of good.

You're right about everything you say about compensation, FIGC changing their stance, Inter being punished etc., though. All of those issues are non-existent.

All that is left is to remove the title from Inter and perhaps have them officially reinstated. We have some good arguments at hand for this to happen, and I now expect the club to proceed.

 

[Jem83]

As for Moggi, I think this is definitely the end of the road. It's painful to watch, it really is. But he will leave this world with a stain upon his name that he doesn't really deserve. I'm not saying he didn't do things that he shouldn't, but his involvement in all of this and everything that has been called "the Moggi system" etc. is just a huge exaggeration. No man deserves to leave the world with lies attached to his legacy. I feel very sorry for him.

 

[.zero]

Jem I can’t see how this will help them get a title back. They won’t have to pay damages to other teams. That’s as far as I see it going. The rest is Agnelli pacifying the fans. We’ll get nothing in my opinion. Maybe Inter will lose the paper title but I don’t see us getting it reassigned with the FIGC being what it is.

As long as someone else doesn't earn the merits of our accomplishments then as a fan I would be appeased.

You don't have to give them back but just don't give them to someone else