Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (40 Viewers)

[Jem83]

Sounds reasonable although it would be pretty cool to have a Lawyer that has studied Law in Italy to see what he/she would say about this case

I agree. I'm a law student myself, but needless to say, I don't study italian law. I know a lot about objective liability and liability law in general, though, and that's why I'm so positive tonight. It means alot that Juve is cleared of objective liability. It is something they can use further down the road.

 

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[ALC]

Inter needs to have their last five scudettos taken away for this shit to be fair. Or just start all over from 2006 and pretend these last years never happened. Those motherfuckers think they're all that cuz they won a treble and now the whole world knows it might as well be a dirty, rusty piece of cheap metal.

 

[Jem83]

Inter needs to have their last five scudettos taken away for this shit to be fair. Or just start all over from 2006 and pretend these last years never happened. Those motherfuckers think they're all that cuz they won a treble and now the whole world knows it might as well be a dirty, rusty piece of cheap metal.

I know, but due to the statute of limitations, fair will never be an option, legally. It sucks, but it's a reality we must come to terms with.

 

[DVS]

I agree. I'm a law student myself, but needless to say, I don't study italian law. I know a lot about objective liability and liability law in general, though, and that's why I'm so positive tonight. It means alot that Juve is cleared of objective liability. It is something they can use further down the road.

well hopefully Agnelli will still make his voice heard during his tenure as president.

 

[frick]

I agree. I'm a law student myself, but needless to say, I don't study italian law. I know a lot about objective liability and liability law in general, though, and that's why I'm so positive tonight. It means alot that Juve is cleared of objective liability. It is something they can use further down the road.

But isn't the fact that Moggi sentenced as guilty making it worse for Juve? I don't understand law (at all) but making Moggi guilty and Juve not sounds ridiculous.

 

[Jem83]

But isn't the fact that Moggi sentenced as guilty making it worse for Juve? I don't understand law (at all) but making Moggi guilty and Juve not sounds ridiculous.

Lol, yes, I can definitely see that it does. I will refer you to one of my earlier posts, however, on what objective liability is, and why it can be that a company can be cleared of wrongdoing even though one of their employees were culpable (guilty).

It's kind of an abstract legal construction, this, and I know that it sounds weird. But the idea is that an employer should not be identified with everything their employees do.

Normally, it will, though, so it's quite remarkable that this was found not to be the case earlier today with Juventus, and I can totally understand why Juventus are happy with this.

EDIT:

In short terms: Moggi lost and Juve won.

To say this is, however, an over-simplification. But in short terms, it's not entirely inaccurate.

 

[only-juve]

It's gonna be difficult, but the Agnellis must not be underestimated.

Just because Moggi lost a trial doesn't mean that the family isn't pulling any weight anymore, politically etc.

They're still one of the most influential families in the country.

If AA wants those titles really bad, he's gonna get them.

So why they didn't do anything for the past 5 years up untill Moggi actually went to the civil court ?

I don't believe much in conspiracy thoeries but I just think Both Andrea Agnelli and John elkanns are pretty young "inexperienced" when it comes to these sort of things.

They're not playing it "dirty" the way the two froggs (moratti and Berlousconi) are doing it. These two fuckers have been around long enough to know the the in and outs of the system in Italy.

Moggi is the only experience guy that we've got but sadly he's not backed by the club and he has no power or money in comparison to the two rats.

Every time i rememeber when Milan won that 2006 CL trophy and Berlousconi coming out and saying that the Milan clubs (both Inter and Ac) are the sole representative of Italy and saying Forza Inter Forza Milan at the end of his speech !! just confirms to me that they were planning that shit all along.

Gianni Agnelli dies ==> calciopoli happens==> Both Inter and Ac milans dominating the league every year. Just the way they wanted it those two fuckers.

 

[Jem83]

Yeah, I know, I've had these thoughts myself and I still do.

There's no figuring out what really happened and who's behind it all. But I firmly believe that Moggi was set-up by Moratti and Telecom like I've always done, and as new evidence is suggesting. I also think Berlusconi was involved, but there's no proving that at all.

Anyway, what you said about John and Andrea being inexperienced, they probably are, and they're not as dirty as those two rats you mentioned. But their ballpark is finances and law. Let's just wait and see how they fare in their own ballpark; how they fare playing their own game.

That they are inexperienced doesn't really matter in this sense, because I can assure you that their lawyers are not. Elkann-money gets you the finest there is.

Let's just all take a deep breath, realize that we still have our arguments for the stolen scudetti at hand, and let's just watch the club as it moves forward. I will be open to criticize the club later on, if it doesn't fight for the titles, but so far the club has given us every assurance that it's intention is to keep on fighting. Today's trial doesn't change that.

 

[frick]

@jem
It looks to me that Juve cleared of guilty charges but it's only because the judges thought that Juve isn't responsible for Moggi's action. So they think that Moggi has actually done things that may benefit him and or Juve (manipulating the refs or whatsoever) in the past but decided to let Moggi and only Moggi to blame. Is this correct?

 

[Jem83]

@jem
It looks to me that Juve cleared of guilty charges but it's only because the judges thought that Juve isn't responsible for Moggi's action. So they think that Moggi has actually done things that may benefit him and or Juve (manipulating the refs or whatsoever) in the past but decided to let Moggi and only Moggi to blame. Is this correct?

You're getting there. Objective liability is the exact opposite of subjective guilt. So whether or not Juve was guilty of anything was not a question in the trial. The only question that arose was if Juve, as an employer, would be liable (responsible) for Moggi's culpable actions due to Moggi being employed and working for Juve. In other words if Juventus could be identified with Moggi's actions (objectively, without it being based on guilt). The court answered no.

As for the court thinking that Moggi only had done things that benefitted him, I would have to read the verdict first, but I suspect that the court found that Moggi did things that benefitted Juventus.

And now I hear you ask, how can Juve go free from objective liability if that is the case?

The answer is: 3 - three - cumulative conditions must be answered with "yes" to activate the objective liability.

My guess is that they answered "yes" to two of them: 1) That Moggi's culpable actions happened while he was employed and 2) that Juventus benefitted from his actions.

But there's a third condition and it states that if the employee has acted outside of his mandate / tasks etc. then the condition is not met.

Whether this was actually what cleared Juve, I don't know, I would have to read the verdict first, so this last part is merely speculation on my part. But Juve were cleared of objective liability, and this is my guess on how it went down.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Plus, Juve as a club were cleared of objective liability!

Let's rock!

I keep reading that everywhere.
But what were the exact accusations that Juve have been cleared of in that trial?
anyone?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That we were involved in Calciopoli.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Why do I still feel bad though...

We shouldn't stop here, we won't stop here

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Not until we get or titles back with some compensation.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Plus, like Jem83 said, if Moggi was found guilty then the other sporting directors and everyone evolved in those phone calls and affecting the referee designations (inter) should be found guilty as well.
Yet, the court will not accept new evidence. Why?
This is shameful to say the least.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Not until we get or titles back with some compensation.

I don't think that's gonna happen, not in my lifetime at least. Do you?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I don't think that's gonna happen, not in my lifetime at least. Do you?

I honestly have very low expectations that justice, as the way we see it, will be served. I think we'll need to make a compromise on what we want and what we'll get. After yesterday, I've completely given up hope that Inter will be relegated or punished to the extent we were punished in 06.

 

[Azzurri7]

Moggi accused for Fiorentina-Bologna because he made Petruzzi and Nastase miss the Juve game?

really? Petruzzi and Nastase? who?

This is hilarious and sad at the same time.

Who the fuck is Petruzzi and Nastase? Juve needed them to miss our game? Juve with (Buffon, Cannavaro, Thuram, Zambrotta, Emerson, Vieira, Camoranesi, Nedved, Del Piero, Zlatan and Trezeguet) needed that? Juve had 7players in the World Cup final on the pitch needed fucking Petruzzi and Nastase miss their game?

Do they really see us that stupid?

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

If Juventus were cleared of objective liability, whatever it is, is the reason of Moggi got penalized related with Lazio/Fiorentina?

 

[Badass J Elkann]

If Juventus were cleared of objective liability, whatever it is, is the reason of Moggi got penalized related with Lazio/Fiorentina?

yes