Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (27 Viewers)

[Juventino_NJ]

Lol these wiretaps look strange.
Either it's very bad translated or the most part looks bullshit

'There are dozens of such conversations. In fact, according to investigators, Moggi received or made an average of 416 calls per day. He had six mobile phones and 300 sim cards. In nine months, he made or received 100,000 calls.'

I can hardly believe it...

Let' see = 24 hours in a day = 1440 minutes per day.

If he made 416 calls, based on those conversations, they all seemed to be at least 4-5 minute long conversations, I guess Moggi never went to sleep

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Agon]

maybe the meant 41.6

 

[gsol]

Denco,

Does it matter what I write. Be honest, because what I say will be inconvenient to whatever argument you are trying to make you will just accuse me of “distorting” or whatever.

First of all you posted nothing that hasn’t been discussed here already. You sourced a blog (which I avoid because anyone can make a blog), and this blog contained a few transcript translations that originate from the translations published from the Gazzetta and Corriere.

You asked if they were manipulated wires. Maybe, see I don’t know which specific calls were manipulated but we do know (after the interrogations of various arrested managers at Telecom like Tavarolli) that many calls were manipulated. Which are yet to be seen.

You asked if the transcripts were edited and the answer is yes. Do you think the papers published the whole call? You would be amazed how many people I sent emails to where I linked the Gazzetta transcript and attached the actual call. The amount of dialogue missing is astounding and I can assure you changes the context of the conversation.

In any case you posted the Maserati incident which was dissected in court and the results were posted here. Since you claim you don’t read my posts I’ll just assume this one too slipped you by. See an audit trail showed that the car was ordered and paid for by Pairetto’s son. Not Moggi. The car was set to be finished inside of a certain date but was delayed and Pairetto’s son wanted the original date respected for a wedding. As a result his father asked Moggi (who works for a branch of the same family) if he could solicit FIAT to move the car up the production line explaining the reason. He did so. This explanation was given in court by all involved and the books indicated that in fact Pairetto’s son paid for (is still paying for) the car himself.

So what? What is illegal? What’s the difference between that and jumping the line at a bar because you know the bouncer?

I would love it if you were willing to accept actual mp3s of the calls and compare them with what was written so that you could see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears how much we were all taken for a ride. Even not understanding the call I suspect you could still benefit because it is obvious that the calls are so much longer than the articles would indicate.


Finally that referee request was for a friendly. We’ve already discussed that too.
It’s not illegal and in no way changes the standings. Stop recycling old dismantled accusations and search for sources that are a little more credible. I go out of my way to maintain the integrity of this forum by posting legal sources and you then post a blog created by whoever. Come on. I don’t blame the blog though. They posted what was available to them. You have been provided with a lot more here yet you brush it aside because it isn’t convenient.

The accuracy is a whole other story which hardly needs attention. Goal and channel 4 must have had 5th generation Italian immigrants translating some of these calls but in any case, even if the translation was accurate, they only had convenient little excerpts of calls to work with so what good were they really?

 

[denco]

Denco,

Does it matter what I write. Be honest, because what I say will be inconvenient to whatever argument you are trying to make you will just accuse me of “distorting” or whatever.

First of all you posted nothing that hasn’t been discussed here already. You sourced a blog (which I avoid because anyone can make a blog), and this blog contained a few transcript translations that originate from the translations published from the Gazzetta and Corriere.

You asked if they were manipulated wires. Maybe, see I don’t know which specific calls were manipulated but we do know (after the interrogations of various arrested managers at Telecom like Tavarolli) that many calls were manipulated. Which are yet to be seen.

You asked if the transcripts were edited and the answer is yes. Do you think the papers published the whole call? You would be amazed how many people I sent emails to where I linked the Gazzetta transcript and attached the actual call. The amount of dialogue missing is astounding and I can assure you changes the context of the conversation.

In any case you posted the Maserati incident which was dissected in court and the results were posted here. Since you claim you don’t read my posts I’ll just assume this one too slipped you by. See an audit trail showed that the car was ordered and paid for by Pairetto’s son. Not Moggi. The car was set to be finished inside of a certain date but was delayed and Pairetto’s son wanted the original date respected for a wedding. As a result his father asked Moggi (who works for a branch of the same family) if he could solicit FIAT to move the car up the production line explaining the reason. He did so. This explanation was given in court by all involved and the books indicated that in fact Pairetto’s son paid for (is still paying for) the car himself.

So what? What is illegal? What’s the difference between that and jumping the line at a bar because you know the bouncer?

I would love it if you were willing to accept actual mp3s of the calls and compare them with what was written so that you could see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears how much we were all taken for a ride. Even not understanding the call I suspect you could still benefit because it is obvious that the calls are so much longer than the articles would indicate.


Finally that referee request was for a friendly. We’ve already discussed that too.
It’s not illegal and in no way changes the standings. Stop recycling old dismantled accusations and search for sources that are a little more credible. I go out of my way to maintain the integrity of this forum by posting legal sources and you then post a blog created by whoever. Come on. I don’t blame the blog though. They posted what was available to them. You have been provided with a lot more here yet you brush it aside because it isn’t convenient.

The accuracy is a whole other story which hardly needs attention. Goal and channel 4 must have had 5th generation Italian immigrants translating some of these calls but in any case, even if the translation was accurate, they only had convenient little excerpts of calls to work with so what good were they really?

I am not at all interested in the maserati incident at all. The part that caught my attention is the bit where Pairetto and Moggi are discussing the Cl league tie and Moggi is saying we must win and pairetto is saying they are an amateur team

I am asking you if that is genuine or not?

 

[Seven]

finally somebody started to talk..

Bullet Sent To Collina’s Home

Collina has been heavily criticised this season for the plethora of refereeing mistakes that have engulfed this Serie A campaign.

The 48-year-old is particularly unpopular with Juventus fans after the Gazzetta dello Sport printed a revised championship table based on points lost through refereeing errors.

The Bianconeri topped the table above Inter, who had been shown to have accumulated many more points than they should have done.

This eventually led to Juve sending an open letter to the Italian Football Federation complaining that they were being penalised as a follow on from the Calciopoli crisis in 2006.

La Nazione says that Collina, who refereed the 1999 Champions League final and the 2002 World Cup final, received a bullet in the post last week.

This news all comes after the events at the Stadio Ferraris on Sunday afternoon. Collina was watching the game between Sampdoria and Torino in the stands, when he was verbally abused and taunted by fans in the stadium following Antonio Cassano’s sending off.

Anthony Sormani

Child.

 

[gsol]

If by genuine you mean "did the call happen" the answer is yes. Granted plenty is missing from the transcript but you get the general idea.

Thecall itself should have had nothing to do with the case since it dealt with either friendlies or European Football. Had something been up I'm sure UEFA would have looked into it and I'm sure Djurgardens would have at least filed a complaint.

In the end one has to interpret for themselves. Obviously if someone already has a low opinion of Moggi and wants to interpret illicit activity, it’s not hard to do so given the manner in which the call is presented but the call itself demonstrates nothing out of the norm.

The CL game they are discussing is the opening leg of the CL qualifier that Juventus should have won 3-2 had it not been for a Miccoli goal being called back wrongfully. Moggi obviously irate complains that the referee was incompetent. He goes on to say that now the team must win to qualify and that he is counting on Gigi to send a competent referee.

Moggi never asks why one of their (Djurgardens) legit goals wasn't called back or anything else that would imply that the refs were to help Juventus. He never once requests a specific ref nor does Gigi ever promise him a referee that will ensure victory. He only ever claims that he’ll send a good referee. In any case the notion that the referees were helping Juventus in the CL is hardr to believe at best considering their run of luck in the tournament. Note that the finals lost and even their elimination at the hands of Liverpool that season were debatable (onside Del Piero goal, Dida off his line for the shoot out against Montero, offside goal against counting for Real in '98).

The point is, this like the other calls show nothing illegal. There is another call between Giraudo and Moggi where the return leg with Djurgardens is discussed and again nothing is implied that would lead the listener to believe that there was a fix in place. Actually the two were quite worried that Juventus would falter in the return leg and that team motivation was essential.

 

[Diego]

Grande Moggi!!

 

[Diego]

I love the angry Moggi

 

[Salvo]

Forza Moggi, sei grandissimo

 

[Salvo]

these where the days, how about a wet moggi?

 

[denco]

Thanks that is all i wanted to know. I am very surprised that you do not findit alarming that Moggi told Pairetto that " we have to win".

That sounds like he is asking for assurances and it cannot just be discounted. Sure there are other stuff missing from the transcript but how else are you going to construe that statement?

Telling a referee designator that Miccolli's goal should not have been disallowed even if Pairetto disagrees and then insisting that we get favourable referees is unsportsmanlike.

I do not remember if Miccoli's goal was legit or not but it should not matter, Moggi has no right to be asking for referees in friendlies or otherwise. It is not sporting.

I said earlier that I did not think he was into match-fixing but why would he want specific referees in friendlies?

The only reason could be due to betting as preseason is not important what the result is or am i being very naive?


Now you are being technical, from my point of view it does not matter where you try to get favourable referees and besides why what makes you think UEFA would delve into the matter after we were relegated and no chance of playing in Europe that season?

Sad but true but Djurgardens do not matter as far as they are concerned and what are they gonna do anyways, award djurgardens 3-0 2 years after the effect?


]Well I do have a low opinion of him so maybe that is why I have interpreted it that way. If there are other ways you can interpret someone telling the referee designator that his team has to win then I would be happy to hear it


[Like I have said earlier I don't recall the goal so I would not argue there but asking for competent referees and demanding that we hhave to win are 2 different things.




Why would he wanna do that if it is a legit goal it is a legit goal there is nothing he can do about it. It is normal for him to think Miccolli's goal was legit whether it was or not is not important as Juventus is his team. What Djurgardens do does not concern him as long as 1 of their goals was not controversial.

If memory serves in the return leg, 1 of our goals was by a penalty and that kind of thing would make a Moggi detractor think he had an influence.






There is something noone to my knowledge has brought up here, if they have and you have answered, i apologise for not having seen it but I do not know anoyone with any kind of sense that would do illegal activities either over the phone or via email.

The fact that you have not heard anything in the wire tap tapes you listened to that could be construed as illegal does not mean it never occurred.

I saw a transcript whereby that stupid Meani was blurting out stuff on the phone like a buffon while the more experienced Galliani was just grunting saying nothing incriminating.

Most people would never be explicit about an illegal activity over the phone whether they know their phone is being tapped or not as it is not just done. They would either speak in codes if it is that urgent they speak or wait until they meet in person.

I do not know what they had over us as regards relegation but it would be shocking if it was got over phone taps as there is no team in Italy or elsewhere that would be that stupid to do illegal activities over the phone but to say we are innocent is just too far-fetched to me

 

[gsol]

Denco I told my wife the same thing after the 2-2 draw..." we have to win". I don't see why you can't see it in the same context. Who knows how many times it's been written here in that context. You are desperately trying to find match fixing because it'a what you want to believe (for some reason).

Does he say "help us win", "guarantee our progression", "make sure we win"? No. You're taking a very innocent conversation and interpreting it to suit your bias. Remember, Marcello Maddalena (Turin Magistrate) claimed that the wires actually demonstrated that the triade respected the rules more than others. But then he listened to the calls rather then reading excerpts.


Complaining may be unsportsmanlike but if you think that a director isn't going to complain after a bad call (in a game that is that important) then you aren't being realistic. In any case no one is disputing whether or not Moggi and the others were unsportsmanlike.



"I said earlier that I did not think he was into match-fixing but why would he want specific referees in friendlies?"

Who cares Denco? Maybe he wanted to study the referee (he always did in order to evaluate their position in "La Griglia"). Maybe he wanted an easy ref to bet on the game (even though I think he would likely have fielded their A squad instead of reserves if that was the case). I don't care. It's not Serie A, it's not official, and it's punishable. Remember that in Serie A requesting referees is pointless because they are allocated by draw. In a friendly believe it or not, the team that organizes the friendly can ask for a specific referee. It's a friendly, don't make more of it than you need to.


Denco I'm not getting technical, I'm pointing out the obvious. No favor was asked at all and the validation of my point comes from teh mere fact that neither UEFA nor Djurgadens sought out any legal measures. It was nothing Denco and I think deep down you know that too. If that was one of the cases more "scandalous" calls then you can start to see why it's being seen as a farce by so many now. Yes by the way if something sinister was going on UEFA would have pounced on it. There is no doubt in my mind an investigation would have been launched.

Djurgardens had much to gain in appealing actually. A small club like that would have benefitted greatly from teh 25 million Euros in sponsorship money that teh qualification would have given them. In my opinion they didn't appeal because in a real trial that wouldn't hold up.

In any case he did not demand a win. He stated that teh team now had to in order to qualify. Frankly, a fairly obvious observation. In my opinion what he was implying was that had Miccoli's legit goal stood, they could have benn more relaxed going into the return. Doesn't matter what you and I think Denco. There's nothing illegal.

By the way neither of the two goals came from penalties.

I don’t like your argument concerning whether or not the wires prove innocence. I understand that not finding proof does not necessarily meant that it is not there but that sort of argument is conducive to improper legal practices that contradict any citizen’s constitutional right to a fair trial. By your phrase, one could be convicted based on popular opinion rather than facts and that is all good so long as it is someone you hate but what if your neighbors decide one day that you are a terrorist?

The point is that these men were followed, monitored, and recorded via phone, SMS, and email for over a year and nothing turned up regarding a fixed match. Whether that means it never happened (highly probable) or not the point still remains that a conviction of that magnatude was not warranted.

If us being innocent is too far fetched to you then just ask yourself one question.

What did we do?

Try answering without opinions...just based on evidence. What did we do?

 

[denco]

I do not think we would ever agree on this as you take the pessimistic defending route and I take the optimistic attacking route.

You telling your wife you want to win after a 2-2 draw is 1 thing you speaking to your wife on the phone with you being juventus gm and your wife being uefa referee designator and telling her your team must win is something else entirely.


I did not say there was a penalty in the 2-2 draw i was talking about the 4-1 win.

UEFA would not pounce or anything once the FA of that country has dealt with it as they never go after the big clubs more interested in safeguarding their interest and that usually equates to money.

Djurgardens would not have a case as what are they gonna say, Moggi asked for a referee so we demand that we be compensated for the loss?

How can they prove that refereeing decisions were correct or incorrect and not human error? That is right you cannot!

Do you know the can of worms you would be opening up for that kind of thing. Everybody would start to demand that all their matches would be looked into.

For all we know they have been compensated on the quiet, noone knows for sure then again nothing improper was done.

It is just wrong that Moggi put himself and more importantly the club in that kind of situation

I cannot answer anything based on evidence nobody can. I can only interpret what has been provided and spin it in any way I deem fit just like everybody does.

 

[Seven]

gsol,

you have a wife? That's odd, I saw you as a rebel .

 

[Gill_juve]

Forza Moggi, sei grandissimo

his knowledge of football and signings would make such a difference to our team, he should tuor secco every staurday or something .

 

[Luca]

his knowledge of football and signings would make such a difference to our team, he should tuor secco every staurday or something .

lol
First lesson: Don't buy any more DM's
second lesson: BUY Left back
third lesson: stop bumming off ranieri, it's not good for our clubs image.

 

[Gill_juve]

lol
First lesson: Don't buy any more DM's
second lesson: BUY Left back
third lesson: stop bumming off ranieri, it's not good for our clubs image.

lol

but the first lesson should be get some balls

 

[Luca]

that my friend not even moggi can help secco with

+rep

 

[gsol]

gsol,

you have a wife? That's odd, I saw you as a rebel .

She's a Juventina...does that help?

 

[gsol]

I do not think we would ever agree on this as you take the pessimistic defending route and I take the optimistic attacking route.

You telling your wife you want to win after a 2-2 draw is 1 thing you speaking to your wife on the phone with you being juventus gm and your wife being uefa referee designator and telling her your team must win is something else entirely.


I did not say there was a penalty in the 2-2 draw i was talking about the 4-1 win.

UEFA would not pounce or anything once the FA of that country has dealt with it as they never go after the big clubs more interested in safeguarding their interest and that usually equates to money.

Djurgardens would not have a case as what are they gonna say, Moggi asked for a referee so we demand that we be compensated for the loss?

How can they prove that refereeing decisions were correct or incorrect and not human error? That is right you cannot!

Do you know the can of worms you would be opening up for that kind of thing. Everybody would start to demand that all their matches would be looked into.

For all we know they have been compensated on the quiet, noone knows for sure then again nothing improper was done.

It is just wrong that Moggi put himself and more importantly the club in that kind of situation

I cannot answer anything based on evidence nobody can. I can only interpret what has been provided and spin it in any way I deem fit just like everybody does.

"I do not think we would ever agree on this as you take the pessimistic defending route and I take the optimistic attacking route."

Within those routes there are limits though Denco and proof is one of them. None was ever provided.

"You telling your wife you want to win after a 2-2 draw is 1 thing you speaking to your wife on the phone with you being juventus gm and your wife being uefa referee designator and telling her your team must win is something else entirely."

It doesn't have to which is what I'm trying to make you understand. If that call was sinister so many more things could have been said but all that was said was "now we have to win" and they did in a very fair game ending 4-1 with no problems, penalties or controversy.


UEFA would pounce on it because teh FIGC does not have the right to even investigate UEFA games as they involve teams outside their federation. UEFA would have had to react if Djurgaden filed an appeal.

"Djurgardens would not have a case as what are they gonna say, Moggi asked for a referee so we demand that we be compensated for the loss?"

He didn’t ask for one but had he that would have been the complaint.

"How can they prove that refereeing decisions were correct or incorrect and not human error? That is right you cannot!"

No game altering errors occured that would merit an investigation and in any case, he didn't request the ref. Had he requested one with an audit demonstrating a transfer of funds or sonething like that would have been a different story. He didn't even request a referee Denco. He stated the obvious "now we have to win". You're making a really big deal out of nothing.


"For all we know they have been compensated on the quiet, noone knows for sure then again nothing improper was done."

Don't draw your own conclusions. That's how shit spreads. Stick to what we know.

"It is just wrong that Moggi put himself and more importantly the club in that kind of situation"

He did nothing out of the norm. Certainly if he knew that Telecom and Moratti were planning all this I'm sure he would have refrained.

"I cannot answer anything based on evidence nobody can. I can only interpret what has been provided and spin it in any way I deem fit just like everybody does."

Don't give other's your characteristics. Some things are open to interpretation. Others are not. No Fixed Matches, No attempted Fixed Matches, Correct Referee Selections, and Legitimate Season are examples of phrases that can only be read one way.