Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (41 Viewers)

[gsol]

I think most of us miss the 'good' old days when we were ruling the league.
wether it was with cheap tricks or not is besides the point for some of us fans but in the long run crime doesn't pay and now we are still paying the price as the referees still seem biased. I for one miss Ibra and all the other champions, I hope he has an off-day
if we lose we can kiss the scudetto goodbye
we are on the right track and I'm sure we will get back at our throne one day
Moggi took a shortcut, I don't miss him I think people only miss the success he brought us. but knowing how he did it gives me a dirty taste in my mouth
we can debate forever if he was the only guilty party and how guilty he was but the man is guilty
it is time to turn that page and start a new one

it has no effect on you whatsoever that the sentences clearly stated that no match fixing occured?

Why do you want to believe they cheated when even the judges admitted they didn't?

 

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[gsol]

@Denco - keep up the good work!

Are you trying to be funny? What's he done? I actually posted legal documents and wiretaps and this guy has done nothing but post personal opinions about Moggi and Juventus and me.

I asked him specific questions that he evaded. He demanded that I post a link to the sentence to prove that I wasn't making shit up. When I posted it he never brought it up again.

Ya keep up the good work...

 

[Enron]

Are you trying to be funny? What's he done? I actually posted legal documents and wiretaps and this guy has done nothing but post personal opinions about Moggi and Juventus and me.

I asked him specific questions that he evaded. He demanded that I post a link to the sentence to prove that I wasn't making shit up. When I posted it he never brought it up again.

Ya keep up the good work...

Settle down big guy, no need to get all puffed up over nothing.

 

[gsol]

GEA WORLD as promised.

Geronzi owned 20% who is a Mediaset Journalist (Berlusconi owned) and former Roma treasurer and the sister of Benedetta Geronzi who was Carraro’s Marketing Administrator (note Carraro is an Ex-Milan President and was he President of the FIGC and is one of Lazio and Roma’s biggest shareholders through Capitalia). Cragnotti also owned 20% as did Tanzi 20%. The rest was financed by Romafides 40% through Capitalia where Carraro is a major shareholder and sits on the board.
The 40% ownership through Capitalia (loan) was put to the title of Alessandro Moggi, and Francesco Zavaglia. They soon gave 10% ownership to Riccardo Calleri (ex Lazio President Gianmarco’s son). That was however, the beginning (2001).
Then in 2004 there was a power shift. Here’s what it looked like; Geronzi 72.6% while the rest was GEA Shareholders. Who were the shareholders? They were all corporate investors, starting with Parmacotto and Puma (Parma and Lazio investors), Giochi Preziosi (Genoa investors), Publitalia 80 (owned by Berlusconi), Addidas (Milan sponsors), Gazzetta dello Sport (owned by Inter Vice President of Communications Carlo Buare), and Mediobanca (which is owned by IFIL where Moggi’s biggest enemies Montezemolo and Elkan preside).
I read through the details of the investigation and I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high. The conflicts of interest run far deeper from Rome, Parma, and Milano than Juventus. Especially after you read the names of the 262 players that went through the agency (less than 15 Juventini most of which were Juventini prior to GEA’s formation).
The point here isn’t to blame others. It’s merely to show that many teams had a stake in the Agency and the thought that Moggi controlled it given the big names involved in the corporate structure (including the Prime Minister at the time, the President of the FIGC, etc.) is not realistic at all.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

ll answer this later I promise. I don't have time this second but know that there is a lot you don't know about [insert italian organization here].

this pretty much sums everything up

 

[JuveAdam]

"He asked for the ref by name, as he did a number of times. As I keep saying, no there is nothing illegal, its unsporting & against the spirit of competition. That why we were tried & punished by a sporting court. Your point about Facchetti goes to exactly what I said here"

thank you...you are right. Unsportsmanlike conduct did occur. We all know that and I don't deny it. However there is a difference between unsportsmanlike conduct (article 1 violation) and illicit activity (article 6 violation)

Article 6 constitutes bannings and relegation (for match fixing)

Article 1 constitutes point deductions. Former FIGC Judges and current ones (namely Ruperto) stated that a 3-5 point deduction for Juventus would have been just. My point is that Moggi is innocent of illicit activity and the sentences clarified that when they stated that there were no article 6 violations.

So, like I keep saying, we were tried & punished in a sporting trial, which has no need for illegal acts to be commited for a punishment to be handed out. Every time I post this you post something like;

Unsportsmanlike conduct did occur. We all know that and I don't deny it. However there is a difference between unsportsmanlike conduct and illicit activity

which is what I am telling you. There is no need to prove illegal activity, a sporting trial is run in accordance with the rules & spirit of a game, which you yourself say Moggi has broken. The rest of your posts in reply to me are just waffle & re-hashed jargon which skirts the issue. Ill say it once more, with feeling, see if you get it this time

Dear gsol,

We were found to be in breach of a sporting code, guilty of unsporting behaviour & were punished for it. The majority of Juventini can see this, our remaining beef is that we were punished far too harshly for the code we broke, while other teams escaped real punishment. If the other guilty teams were relegated with us, or we were left in A with a heavy penalty (& our titles) we would have accepted this & just gotten on with supporting our team. This was not the case & we were punished far more severly than others, which left us open to blame, ridicule & other teams took advantage & took our players, which would never happen under other circumstances. This has left us weak, with a board full of inexperienced weak men like Secco, hence we want Moggi back.

 

[Snoop]

I actually posted legal documents and wiretaps

we got it goddamit

 

[gsol]

Ok I think we’re getting somewhere. I’m not trashing you but you obviously didn’t read the CGS (Sports Justice Code) under FIGC regulations and I don’t blame you. It’s fucking long and boring but…it hurts your point.

In Italian sports justice there are guidelines ok. You can’t be found guilty of something (anything) and be sentenced however the judge and or public sees fit. If you violate this code there is this punishment but if you violate that code there is that punishment…just like civil justice.

To relegate Juve and strip her titles and ban her directors an article 6 violation needed to be present. There wasn’t one. All they ever found was Article 1 violations which all bunched together could have constituted 3-5 (some argued 8) points in deductions and a fine. Examples are complaining about referees before and after the fact with the designers, insults n the pitch and off, rude gestures, etc.

Note that these point deductions could have been applied across the board in Serie A and B and that if done properly all teams would have been punished and Juve would have remained in Serie A with her titles and the CL.

People have this misconception that unsportsmanlike conduct is cheating. The charges are different and punished differently. Comportamento Sleale (unsportsmanlike conduct)Article 1 and Illecito Sportivo (Illicit Sporting) Article 6 are two charges that have nothing to do with each other. You can’t steal a car and be tried for rape…same idea goes here. Six unsportsmanlike conducts does not match one fixed game…but that is exactly the criteria they used to relegate Juve according to the sentences. They created for the first time in the history of Serie A the “Illecito Strutturato” charge (they already abolished it). This allowed them to combine Article 1s to create an Article 6. In other words trashing a referee 6 times, calling Carraro an asshole, yelling at Paparesta and insulting a linesmen = fixing a match that was never fixed.

This is not my opinion…it’s in the sentences that I made available to everyone here.

In the meantime other directors were actually caught on the phone with referees and the team was not charged in this fashion. How can people continue to deny that it was done simply to relegate Juve and restructure its management to suit the rest of Serie A?

There is one more thing I want to emphasize. Much has been said about Juve’s relegation being pre-written, determined first in a board room and later justified (somewhat) in court. Here’s something puzzling. The case was concluded and the sentences made public on July 14th 2006. The Gazzetta Dello Sport (run by Inter Vice President Carlo Buare) published the sentences on July 11th 2006 three days in advance. How on earth could a sports paper know in advance the details of a trial sentences for each team and individual involved three days prior to its conclusion? Equally puzzling is how the Gazzetta knew of the newly formed “Illecito Strutturato” charge when Cesare Ruperto announced it publically for the first time when the sentence was read on the 14th of July?

I can’t understand why I encounter so much resistance here. These revelations should enrage Juventus fans. Instead here the actions of the trial are defended. I’m sure I will be accused of making up those dates. Go to the gazzetta.it website and surf the archives. The last time I checked they didn’t modify anything so you guys can see for yourself that the Gazzetta posted in detail exactly what the court decided 3 days before they decided it. Then look at the link I posted of the actual sentence and read the date. It is a fact. The sentences were revealed on the Friday, the Tuesday prior the Gazzetta had already let the cat out of the bag.

 

[HelterSkelter]

God im sleepy

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

then sleep

 

[Cronios]

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

gsol trying to awake you sleepy guys

listen him

 

[Fred]

If I was illiterate we would not be having this conversation because i would have absolutely no idea what you have written and in fact I would not be in this forum whatsoever.

Stop being so frustrated, I am not a sheep and you cannot just say stuff and expect me to believe it.

You have your sheep around here that will believe everything you say as long as it means Inter are the bad guys or is it Milan or is it capitale that own sponsor Lazio and Roma, it does get rather confusing

The same way those anti-juve cannot just make up stuff and expect me to believe it either.

You even have the temerity to ask if every time I am hit whether i bleed, I will bleed if someone wearing football boots kicks me in the face

There has been many injustices in football we all know that England's 2nd and crucial goal against W Germany in wc 66 did not cross the line

Maradona's hand ball against England in 86

Sol Campbell's goals against Argentina in 98 and Potrugal in 2004 were ruled out for no reason

Leeds united totally robbed against Bayern Munich in the 1976 european cup final

Italy in 2002 wc were hard done by

West Germany and Austria putting Algeria out in 1978

Argentina 6 peru 0 in 1978

Maradona and Canniggia being the only players to have failed a cocaine test, or was it just coincidence that these 2 players put Italy out of Italia 90 when it was known that half of Napoli's squad were on coke but only Maradona tested positive

Italy against France 2000, where the hell did the referee get 4 minutes from?

Manchester United given 7 minutes to score 2 goals against Sheffield Wednesday to enable them win their first championship in 25 years

The list goes on and on

Countless and countless of bad decisisons that go against poor teams when they play the big boys so a Juve supporter should never whinge that Milan is being favoured. Milan fans that whinge against decisions have a nerve to do so

What exactly was Collina meant to do when Perugia played Juventus? There was not a chance in hell that he could postpone the game as it would have caused an extreme uproar for us to play at a later time already knowing what Lazio had done.

It was an act of nature and it is not as if he gave debatable decisions, Perugia were playing under similar circumstances

When Juventus played Siena and go 3-0 up in 8 minutes and then you realise a large percentage of Siena players are ither owned by Juventus or agents of Moggi's son, it does raise a few eyebrows.

Do you think Moggi is innocent? If he is not what would you say he is guilty of?

that was 1982.

 

[Oggy]

that was 1982.

You quoted whole post just to correct two numbers

 

[Marc]

I have a question for Gsol. Maybe you could help me? Do you remember the 1st sentence which has originally relegated Lazio and Fiorentina too? I want to know more about their cases. Did Lazio and Fiorentina commit any illicit activity? Thanks in advance.

 

[gsol]

Yes they did. Both were found guilty of article 6 violations and merited relegation but for reasons that the public are usually unaware of.
Many think that Fiorentina were punished for the presumed fixed draw between Lecce-Parma however that had nothing to do directly with Fiorentina. Many think Lazio were relegated because FIGC President Carraro was caught on tape instructing designer Bergamo to help Lazio out “after their game with Milan” (note that Capitalia has a huge stake in Lazio and Carraro is on the Board of Directors at Capitalia Bank). This is also not the case because Lazio are not directly linked with Carraro therefore could not be punished for his individual actions.
Here’s the actual incident. Towards the end of the season (note both teams were fighting for survival), Fiorentina Director Della Vale called Lazio President Lotito with a proposal of fixing a draw. Lotito absolutely refused and went on to call others stating what a psycho (pazzo) Della Vale was for his proposal. The game was not fixed in the end but the attempt was evident and this is also an Article 6 violation punishable by relegation. The problem is that the CGS Regulations dictate that if a person knows of an attempt to fix a result and doesn’t report it he too can be tried for an Article 6 violation (I personally see this as extreme). So by Della Vale trying to fix it and Lotito not reporting it, both were correctly relegated initially.
Because of Capitalia’s massive investments in Lazio (and Serie A as a whole) the call was removed from the proceedings when the appeal took place in the Federal Court. Lazio were saved from relegation because all their other intercepted calls only showed violations of unsportsmanlike conduct and were given only a point deduction. By default Fiorentina were saved too. By omitting that phone call for Lazio, no other calls remained incriminating Fiorentina for article 6 violations. They too were then only punished for unsportsmanlike conduct (Article 1) for their other calls to referee designers and received a point deduction.

 

[Marc]

Thanks, mate. You are a great help. I appreciate the efforts.

 

[denco]

Are you trying to be funny? What's he done? I actually posted legal documents and wiretaps and this guy has done nothing but post personal opinions about Moggi and Juventus and me.

I asked him specific questions that he evaded. He demanded that I post a link to the sentence to prove that I wasn't making shit up. When I posted it he never brought it up again.

Ya keep up the good work...

Calm down and quit patting yourself on the back.

What questions did you post that i evaded.

How exactly am i supposed to prove if we fixed matches when i was not assigned the job to do so?

All the things that you have posted which include article 1 and article 6 have been done in the past by Rebel and ZAF, during the world cup. I admired their endeavour but did not share their opinions but fair play to them.

You say gazetta posted results before it was public knowledge. Seriously are you for real?

They are the press and they have their sources that they pay good money to give them info on.

It is not a new thing, it happens here where some newspapers printed West Ham would be fined 5m before the public knew about it regarding the Tevez affair

From what you have been posting you have said Milan, Inter with the help of gazetta, telecom and some other people that have interwining ties conspired to bring us down because we are too powerful and Moggi and Giraudo were too big for their shoes and were obstructing good bizness.

Bettega on the other hand managed to stay with the new board that had made a deal with the bad guys that included something to do with Ferrari and Fiat.

This is the same Bettega that was the third member of the triad, somehow he was not outraged that the club he has had ties with for over 30 years, were sold down the river but he decided to dance with the devil for a while.

Let me run a theory by ya

Juventus, Milan, Fiorentina and lazio were all guilty of match fixing and with illegal wire taps and phone calls were all caught red handed.

Juventus and Milan were the biggest culprits and someone had to take the fall as they just could not brush this under the carpet as the whole world now knows

If they did UEFa and Fifa would have been called in to investigate and what they would have discovered would have hit at the very core of the Italian game

To do something the Italian Fa had to be seen to take action, so they relegate 3 teams with the understanding that Lazio and Fiorentina can appeal and comeback

Now it was between the 2 biggest culprits, Milan and Juventus who will take the slack .

Milan have Berlusconi in their corner and other bargaining chips but Juventus that are the biggest culprits did not have that much power so they had to take the fall.

It was probably to be understood that they could not go to serieC and their points would be reduced to a reasonable amount that not only could they come straight back to seriea but more importantly they could convince some of their star players to stay otherwise no deal.

The powers that be all decide this is the best possible scenario and hence our year of purgatory in serie B

This is not a fact but just my hypothesis and i bet it aint so far from the truth

As Juve revolution said it is impossible to ascertain the whole truth and we might never find out but we are guilty as sin and the fact that Lazio, Fiorentina and Milan were guilty does not mean we are not.

JuveAdam raised an important point and you said something very significant that you didnt realise how significant

Moggi manipulated a referee in a friendly and you more less agreed by laughing it off as just a friendly.

Now if Moggi can do that just for a friendly do you know what lengths he would go to for a significant match?

 

[ReBeL]

What is the point of fixing a friendly match?

 

[Geof]

What is the point of fixing a friendly match?

Now that is a question.