I have strong feeling that our lawyers waiting for full written justification, and than we decide what to do with this case next.
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Calciopoli or Morattopoli.. inter fake orgasm (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter gsol
- Start date
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http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2015/03/25/3478300/moggi-to-appeal-against-lifelong.html
He's going to Haag!:theflag:
He's going to Haag!:theflag:
Things are obvious since day one if you ask me except for few ignorants and idiots who blamed and believed Moggi is the reason for Calciopoli and Serie B.
All this was Directed, well planned, and very well structured to put Juve away for sometime (and it worked) leaving the field to others (Inter profited well).
Someone like Moratti and Berlusca or even Franco Sensi are politically strong and I am pretty sure were influencing the game much more than someone like Moggi.
Moggi was a victim of an incredible success on an Italian level that could not be digested by many and few idiots Juve fans really believed that Moggi NEEDED to fix matches when he had Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Zlatan, Emerson, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Buffon etc or when there were 7-8 Juve players on the field in the final world cup match between Italy vs France.
Even if Moggi doesn't win any of the appeals and Juve don't get a cent of compensation from all this, things are still pretty clear.
All this was Directed, well planned, and very well structured to put Juve away for sometime (and it worked) leaving the field to others (Inter profited well).
Someone like Moratti and Berlusca or even Franco Sensi are politically strong and I am pretty sure were influencing the game much more than someone like Moggi.
Moggi was a victim of an incredible success on an Italian level that could not be digested by many and few idiots Juve fans really believed that Moggi NEEDED to fix matches when he had Nedved, Del Piero, Trezeguet, Zlatan, Emerson, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Buffon etc or when there were 7-8 Juve players on the field in the final world cup match between Italy vs France.
Even if Moggi doesn't win any of the appeals and Juve don't get a cent of compensation from all this, things are still pretty clear.
I disagree.
Obviously they are two seperate cases. However so far I find pretty much nothing on criminal or civil verdicts that directly convict Juventus of any wrongdoing.
Other than that the main figure in all of this drama is Moggi. If the person who is supposedly at the heart of it all is found to be not guilty (and mind you he already was found not guilty by the highest Italian court on the charge of sporting fraud) that will have its implications on the civil case of Juventus.
Juventus argue that they were wrongfully relegated and sufferend important damage to their brand as a consequence. If there is no guilty verdict for Juventus or at the very least Moggi, it will be hard for the FIGC to say they were right in relegating Juventus.
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Most importantly:
1. Moggi is not punished for the charge of conspiracy, because of the prescription period. As this can still and probably should be read as a guilty verdict, he wants to go to the ECHR.
2. Moggi was found not guilty on the charge of sporting fraud. Though I have not read the actual verdict I can only assume this means no games were fixed by Moggi. Given the nature of this verdict, given by the highest Italian national court, I think we can safely say that Calciopoli was a huge rip off.
Obviously they are two seperate cases. However so far I find pretty much nothing on criminal or civil verdicts that directly convict Juventus of any wrongdoing.
Other than that the main figure in all of this drama is Moggi. If the person who is supposedly at the heart of it all is found to be not guilty (and mind you he already was found not guilty by the highest Italian court on the charge of sporting fraud) that will have its implications on the civil case of Juventus.
Juventus argue that they were wrongfully relegated and sufferend important damage to their brand as a consequence. If there is no guilty verdict for Juventus or at the very least Moggi, it will be hard for the FIGC to say they were right in relegating Juventus.
- - - Updated - - -
Most importantly:
1. Moggi is not punished for the charge of conspiracy, because of the prescription period. As this can still and probably should be read as a guilty verdict, he wants to go to the ECHR.
2. Moggi was found not guilty on the charge of sporting fraud. Though I have not read the actual verdict I can only assume this means no games were fixed by Moggi. Given the nature of this verdict, given by the highest Italian national court, I think we can safely say that Calciopoli was a huge rip off.
First of all, I agree completely, Seven. This post is merely to clarify why I do.
At base level, Badass is correct in saying that there is no legal connection between Moggi and Juventus anymore (in the sense that one's legal fate shouldn't affect the other's). The reason for this is that Juventus was found not guilty of objective liability for Moggi's actions in the Naples ruling of 2011, where the court found that Moggi had gone so far beyond his powers as a GM that Juventus could not be held liable for his actions: http://www.juventus.com/juve/en/news/8nov2011_notadellasocieta
So, the fundamentals here, is that Juventus and Moggi began sailing their own seas from that moment on. For Juventus, the outcome of the 2011 trial was very positive, as it opened up a legal pathway for damages claims. For Moggi, however, the ruling was a disaster, as the 2011 verdict stated that he was guilty of sporting fraud.
This time, Moggi has been found not guilty of sporting fraud. Let's also hypothetically say that Moggi will win in the ECHR. The question is whether all of this could impact Juventus' future civil law case positively.
Formally, it should not have an impact, seeing as Juve has already been cleared of objective liability. That is sufficient grounds on it's own. However, it's naive to think that any positive outcome for Moggi, who was part of Juventus at the time, couldn't affect the reasonings of judges in Juve's future civil law case. Judges are also people, and even though they try to stay objective at all times and despite them insisting that they didn't put any consideration on this or that fact, the truth is that they do. They always do.
Formally, Badass is correct, but in practice, any positive outcome for Moggi will further undermine FIGC's past decision to relegate Juventus.
I therefore agree with Seven.
Just wanted to draw up a clearer divide between the formal and the practical, because it just shows how complex law can be and that there's a huge difference between "law in action and law in books".
Formally, Juventus and Moggi couldn't be more separate at the moment, but Juve's strategy in a potential civil law trial must be to make the FIGC look like absolute amateurs. Moggi being cleared of sporting fraud by the highest italian court (and hopefully also the ECHR if he's allowed to take it there), would go a long way in doing so.
At base level, Badass is correct in saying that there is no legal connection between Moggi and Juventus anymore (in the sense that one's legal fate shouldn't affect the other's). The reason for this is that Juventus was found not guilty of objective liability for Moggi's actions in the Naples ruling of 2011, where the court found that Moggi had gone so far beyond his powers as a GM that Juventus could not be held liable for his actions: http://www.juventus.com/juve/en/news/8nov2011_notadellasocieta
So, the fundamentals here, is that Juventus and Moggi began sailing their own seas from that moment on. For Juventus, the outcome of the 2011 trial was very positive, as it opened up a legal pathway for damages claims. For Moggi, however, the ruling was a disaster, as the 2011 verdict stated that he was guilty of sporting fraud.
This time, Moggi has been found not guilty of sporting fraud. Let's also hypothetically say that Moggi will win in the ECHR. The question is whether all of this could impact Juventus' future civil law case positively.
Formally, it should not have an impact, seeing as Juve has already been cleared of objective liability. That is sufficient grounds on it's own. However, it's naive to think that any positive outcome for Moggi, who was part of Juventus at the time, couldn't affect the reasonings of judges in Juve's future civil law case. Judges are also people, and even though they try to stay objective at all times and despite them insisting that they didn't put any consideration on this or that fact, the truth is that they do. They always do.
Formally, Badass is correct, but in practice, any positive outcome for Moggi will further undermine FIGC's past decision to relegate Juventus.
I therefore agree with Seven.
Just wanted to draw up a clearer divide between the formal and the practical, because it just shows how complex law can be and that there's a huge difference between "law in action and law in books".
Formally, Juventus and Moggi couldn't be more separate at the moment, but Juve's strategy in a potential civil law trial must be to make the FIGC look like absolute amateurs. Moggi being cleared of sporting fraud by the highest italian court (and hopefully also the ECHR if he's allowed to take it there), would go a long way in doing so.
tavecchio:
“While the motivations may be pending, the sentence confirms the thesis of the prosecution,” he told Ansa.
“Notwithstanding the statute of limitations [which keeps Moggi from serving jail-time], the crimes were real and so was the criminal conspiracy.
“As far as we're concerned, Juve's demand for a compensation from the tribunal makes for a frivolous dispute.”
here we go.
“While the motivations may be pending, the sentence confirms the thesis of the prosecution,” he told Ansa.
“Notwithstanding the statute of limitations [which keeps Moggi from serving jail-time], the crimes were real and so was the criminal conspiracy.
“As far as we're concerned, Juve's demand for a compensation from the tribunal makes for a frivolous dispute.”
here we go.
