Burqa (6 Viewers)

[Fred]

It may not actually be enforced but it is enforced by society. If everyone else is wearing one, then you have to wear one or else stand out like a sore thumb.

Other than Saudi society(and even this i'm not sure of) i don't know of any other society that imposes wearing the burqa.



For any of the muslims here who actually believe women should wear burqa's i'd like to know "masdar el tashree3" you got it from.


Personally i never believed in it. Islam asked its women to cover their body and heads, not their faces.

Oh and btw, some wear burqa's and even gloves for good measure

 

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[IrishZebra]

that was for my wife not the lady of the pic

Sorry buddy the screencaps are already on thier way :evil:



As for the Burqa, I have but two points:

• The first is, that no woman anywhere at anytime can be forced to wear something that the don't want to, it's disgraceful to subjogate either of the sexes and don't give me any crap and Cultural Relativism because as the Americans say these truths are self-evident and applicable regardless of wether you agree or not. That being said if a person actualy wants to wear it, I don't give a flying fuck, best of luck with it.
  
• Following on, the wearing of the Burqa or any restrictive dress/religious item is seconded with regard to the internal laws of the state with regard to education and of course security. No Burqa,Crucifix,Dredel w/e in schools, and If there exists a veil then it must be removed with regard to external movement and internal security checks.

To put it briefly: Don't force women to wear anything and keep it the fuck away from the aparatus of the state, whatever it may be.

 

[Fred]

I definitely agree with the idea that the state should not force them to wear the Hijab let alone the burqa. Every woman has a mind of herself if she doesn't want to wear the Hijab and isn't convinced, its up to her.

The burqa is a whole different story, i don't know where it came from. Like i said before, scripture explicitly states that the body and hair be covered, not the face. But if a woman wants to wear it, i don't see why we should tell her not to.

 

[IrishZebra]

I definitely agree with the idea that the state should not force them to wear the Hijab let alone the burqa. Every woman has a mind of herself if she doesn't want to wear the Hijab and isn't convinced, its up to her.

The burqa is a whole different story, i don't know where it came from. Like i said before, scripture explicitly states that the body and hair be covered, not the face. But if a woman wants to wear it, i don't see why we should tell her not to.

I have a huge problem with this, nobody can tell a woman that she can't wear certain clothes.

 

[Fred]

If the woman does not believe in Qur'an and isn't convinced that she should wear Hijab, then she doesn't have to. Nobody should force her, there are plenty of muslim women who don't wear the Hijab contrary to popular belief.

 

[IrishZebra]

If the woman does not believe in Qur'an and isn't convinced that she should wear Hijab, then she doesn't have to. Nobody should force her, there are plenty of muslim women who don't wear the Hijab contrary to popular belief.

The problem is that if you foster a society where Women are deemed for the most part to be inferior and subservient then the whole 'nobodys forcing them' argument can't stand up because you have effectively removed their option to feel safe in saying no.


Bottom line, more arabian women in Binkinis please

 

[Fred]

The problem is that if you foster a society where Women are deemed for the most part to be inferior and subservient then the whole 'nobodys forcing them' argument can't stand up because you have effectively removed their option to feel safe in saying no.


Bottom line, more arabian women in Binkinis please

Women are not inferior or subservient.

Lots and lots of women dress just like their western counterparts here, so your society pressure argument is out the window too.

 

[IrishZebra]

Women are not inferior or subservient.

Lots and lots of women dress just like their western counterparts here, so your society pressure argument is out the window too.

So you're contending that the freedoms of Irish Women for example are equivilent to those enjoyed by women in your country? Are you seriously saying that either a significant minority or slight majority of people within the Muslim world don't actively perpetuate a Patriarchal society?

Because I've got to tell you that is certainly not the impression that I have been given thorugh my study and interactions with the large Muslim contingent in my school.

 

[Fred]

So you're contending that the freedoms of Irish Women for example are equivilent to those enjoyed by women in your country? Are you seriously saying that either a significant minority or slight majority of people within the Muslim world don't actively perpetuate a Patriarchal society?

Because I've got to tell you that is certainly not the impression that I have been given thorugh my study and interactions with the large Muslim contingent in my school.

Equivalent?

We just have different interpretations of what freedom is. Freedom isn't something you can quantify by numbers.


We've had a woman president in this "patriarchal society" you talk about. Thats more than you can say about your women.

There are obvious differences between the genders, there is no need to hide from that or try and suger coat it.

 

[Alen]

The burqa comes handy if you're ugly.

I wonder why didn't the Spanish, English and Portuguese women think of wearing a burqa. That would have solved many of their problems.

 

[Fred]

The burqa comes handy if you're ugly.

I wonder why didn't the Spanish, English and Portuguese woman think of wearing a burqa. That would have solved many of their problems.

 

[Eddy]

think of it like this .. would you let your daughter walk out in slutty clothes? or dress moderately? To most it seems extreme to fully cover and wear a burqa, but coming from their roots and tradition it was a way to protect their women ...which not always worked for obvious human nature reasons.

That's considered brainwashing. And I wouldn't care if she dresses like a slut or if she dresses moderately, it's all about how she grew up with a good family that cares for her, not teach her to become a whore at a young age.

 

[IrishZebra]

Equivalent?

We just have different interpretations of what freedom is. Freedom isn't something you can quantify by numbers.


We've had a woman president in this "patriarchal society" you talk about. Thats more than you can say about your women.

There are obvious differences between the genders, there is no need to hide from that or try and suger coat it.

Our past two Presidents have been women.


Universal Human Rights are just that, Universal. The Culture argument has been used by everybody from Stalin to the Chinese Government. It is inherent that some things are not open to interpretation. The rights of people can be quntified in how many they enjoy within the state. I'm not saying Ireland is perfect, we need a new constitution badly and some attitudes need to change and we are aware that on a basic level there are differences between the genders.

Women are in general smarter and better suited to multiple targets.

Men are in general stronger and quite adept at single focus intense work.

There are differences yes of course, but under law and in Society as a extension, we are all equal. Feminism for the most part is horseshit but the biggest load of gay on this earth is people and states that refuse to stand up and say something is wrong because it'd show ingorance of culture.

I know this is a far-out example, I Know there's no need to point it out;

Culture is malleable, White Sumpremacists have a Culture, if they view hate crimes and forcing other races out of their areas is their interpretation of freedom within their culture who am I as a westerner to say it's wrong?

And some point people have to say enough is enough and take a stand against countries that abuse human rights not just Muslim countries but the USA,UK,Russia, Caucasian Nations, the Stans in Central Asia, China, Vast parts of Afirca and to a lesser extent Europe itself. The people in these places that deny Men,Women and Children their rights that are inalienable and universal are scum.

I'm not trying to start a row but these documents here are what I am talking about. Just because they are of Western origin doens't invalidate them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civil_and_Political_Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Economic,_Social_and_Cultural_Rights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEDAW

 

[Azzurri7]

My mother and my aunties are pretty religious as one can get, and they all think the Burqa has little to being something that is required in any way at all, and know its obviously a cultural thing (minority thing too mostly), but also mainly bit of a trend based on how it flactuates in use in certain places. Seems to be a way to show ones identity in a way.

True but which still doesn't make sound right to me. Don't you agree?

this is how most Muslim women wear it..

You think it makes sense to wear this? I also don't think she's aware of why she's wearing this Hijab. I'm pretty sure actually that she doesn't know the reason herself.

Personally i never believed in it. Islam asked its women to cover their body and heads, not their faces.

And covering their body and head makes sense? I don't see much of a difference to be honest from the ones covering their faces to the ones covering their heads. I find it silly for some reason.

 

[Azzurri7]

The problem is that if you foster a society where Women are deemed for the most part to be inferior and subservient then the whole 'nobodys forcing them' argument can't stand up because you have effectively removed their option to feel safe in saying no.

Perfect said. And this is what actually IS happening to most of Arab society.

If a woman chose not to wear a Hijab she will feel in most societies unsafe and people will have a different opinion about her, she will be pictured differently than others.

 

[Ahmed]

this debate without the perspective of actual women is seriously lacking, IMO.

 

[Azzurri7]

That's considered brainwashing. And I wouldn't care if she dresses like a slut or if she dresses moderately, it's all about how she grew up with a good family that cares for her, not teach her to become a whore at a young age.

100%

If a girl doesn't wear a Hijab it doesn't mean she will be wearing just like whores. It all comes with the education and what she was taught by her parents and the environment inside the family.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Why don't women get to go around in public bareback in Western societies?

 

[Alen]

Seriously, we have here three girls (that I know of) who are Muslim or lived all their life in a Muslim society.
Of course that their opinion won't represent the opinion of all Muslim women, but at least it should be more worthy than the opinion of a bunch of male members.

Cigdem, Asma, Hoori....what do you girls think about this?

 

[Dostoevsky]

I bet Cigdem hates it but she won't even read this. Asma supports it and Hoori is 50/50.