No doubt. But, the point was that America can not claim to be a nation that saves the world from genocide...
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Brilliant, another country developes nuclear weapons? Oh lord, save us from Dubya. (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter Zlatan
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I disagree. Most Palestinians ARE willing to live side by side. They obviously would prefer to have the whole country like it was before the Zionist movement where Jews emigrated there from all around the world, but they'd be willing to live a NORMAL life with what they have. A life where children aren't shot in the head randomly. a life where they can go to their lands 2 km away without it having to take 7 hours (if they could at all).
While many poor Palestinian farmers did sell some of their land legally to Israeli's long ago, Israel have built many ILLEGAL settlements everywhere cutting off people from their lands. Nothing much has changed since their ILLEGAL deviding wall continues to be built today.
That "driven into the sea" phrase you talk about specificly refers to the words of the Syrian-Egyptian-Jordanian army right before Israel's pre-emptive strike againt Egypt. That's old news now. Funny how you still hold on to this phrase when Israel have been doing this for years. Millions of Palestinians have lost their homes and HAVE BEEN DRIVEN out to neighboring countries, most notabley, Jordan. So, I'd like to ask you,.. the Palestinians won't stop what?! Your words make it sound as if the Palestinians are oppressing with suicide bombings and Israel is "retaliating" with taking more land, destoryong and dividing more villages, and taking even more lives. Ask yourself which one sounds like retaliation out of desperation?!
I firmly believe though that many Israelis (not the gov.) are willing to live in a double state. Most of them have been born after all these settlements have been built. That's what they know as home.
Ian, didn't you say you were in Israel some time..?!!
While many poor Palestinian farmers did sell some of their land legally to Israeli's long ago, Israel have built many ILLEGAL settlements everywhere cutting off people from their lands. Nothing much has changed since their ILLEGAL deviding wall continues to be built today.
That "driven into the sea" phrase you talk about specificly refers to the words of the Syrian-Egyptian-Jordanian army right before Israel's pre-emptive strike againt Egypt. That's old news now. Funny how you still hold on to this phrase when Israel have been doing this for years. Millions of Palestinians have lost their homes and HAVE BEEN DRIVEN out to neighboring countries, most notabley, Jordan. So, I'd like to ask you,.. the Palestinians won't stop what?! Your words make it sound as if the Palestinians are oppressing with suicide bombings and Israel is "retaliating" with taking more land, destoryong and dividing more villages, and taking even more lives. Ask yourself which one sounds like retaliation out of desperation?!
I firmly believe though that many Israelis (not the gov.) are willing to live in a double state. Most of them have been born after all these settlements have been built. That's what they know as home.
Ian, didn't you say you were in Israel some time..?!!
++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
If we filled up Arkansas with gypsies, would they pick each other's pockets?
What you might not realize about USA is that the people and the government had opposite views on Israel prior to the attack of 2001. The American Government and the Jewish Americans both blindly supported Israel's oppressive policies. However, the American public, for the most part, was outraged at Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and most Americans that I saw actually favored the Palestinians in this fight. BUT, you know how the American opinon is shaped and controlled by the media, and that the media is controlled by Jewish Americans. So, on Sept.11, 2001, after the attack on the USA, the media was very quick to state that the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets. This may or may not have been true, but the shocked Americans heard it and believed it. A day later when the Palestinian Authority gave a tepid condemnation of the attack, it was too late. The Americans did not believe it, and all those people who had supported the Palestinians suddenly thought that it might not be so bad to support Israel's oppression of the Palestinians. This is the sad truth, as I saw it.
If we filled up Arkansas with gypsies, would they pick each other's pockets?
What you might not realize about USA is that the people and the government had opposite views on Israel prior to the attack of 2001. The American Government and the Jewish Americans both blindly supported Israel's oppressive policies. However, the American public, for the most part, was outraged at Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and most Americans that I saw actually favored the Palestinians in this fight. BUT, you know how the American opinon is shaped and controlled by the media, and that the media is controlled by Jewish Americans. So, on Sept.11, 2001, after the attack on the USA, the media was very quick to state that the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets. This may or may not have been true, but the shocked Americans heard it and believed it. A day later when the Palestinian Authority gave a tepid condemnation of the attack, it was too late. The Americans did not believe it, and all those people who had supported the Palestinians suddenly thought that it might not be so bad to support Israel's oppression of the Palestinians. This is the sad truth, as I saw it.
Andy, you seem stuck on natural resources at the moment. I advise you to go outside, take River's shoe, and take the edge off. See you back in an hour. And when you come back, don't be posting that funny shit. We want to see some serious posts out of you. Your mother and I are very disappointed in your underachieving and goofing off.
Sorry Pops.
What makes you think I hate the US? Just cause I live here doesn't mean i have to ignore history. I have nothing against the the ppl, i j jus don't like the gov. policies, that's all. I have many friends who like Bush, and all the crap surrounding his precidency. I have nothing against them personally, neither you guys, i just don't agree with their/your political views. and FYI, i don't live here by choice, if it was up to me, i would have never left Sweden, i'm here b/c of my parents. Nothing against america though, just like it where i grew up...that's all.
I don't think that they want it to be like before the zionist movement. Before that, Palestine was a very poor, sparsely populated place with no discernable government and no potential for growth. Furthermore, disease and illiteracy was rampant.
Call it illegal or legal, it doesn't matter. What is done is done. Jewish immigration to Palestine was legal. And Palestinian terrorist action is illegal.
Actually, I take that phrase from the Palestinian paramilitaries who ravaged the town in Israel where I lived. The terrorist on the Palestinian side would not stop their attacks even if Israel stopped "driving people out of their homes." Besides, it's a recipricol thing, each side justifies it's actions based on the other sides actions. To say that Israel is more at fault simply because they are richer and have a real military is foolish, I think.
The current Israeli government was elected because the Palestinians refused the very generous offers (IMO) that were made by the previous government. That's not to justify Sharon's war crimes, but still there has to be compromise somewhere...
Yes, I lived in Israel. I was there with a group of different denominations of Christians. Unfortunately, the town in which I lived was the centre of some very serious unrest, and my group was the target of attacks from Palestinians, the Israeli Army, and Jewish parmalitaries.
Being one of the few with a military background (I served with the Australian Royal Army), I had to do what I could to protect my people, until we could leave. My experiences in Israel changed me into a completely different person, and the things I did there are the basis for my current belief in non-violence. I think that if most people truly understood what is going on there, they would not be as quick to condemn the Israelis as they are. Without the Zionist movement, Palestine would be a backward, poor, theocracy. If they ever make peace, the Palestinians will be much better off for having the Jews there. And to deny the Jews their historic homeland would be wrong, IMO. They were forced off their land by Babylonian invasion, and dispersed themselves around the world. They have since been subject to persecution everywhere, that still exists today.
It's a hard thing to say, but the taking of lives has to end. I have taken a human life before, and it's the most terrible thing that anyone can do. Having done that, I feel that I can say that they must all stop killing. Even killing in self defense will solve nothing. If I had it to do all over again, I wish that they would have killed me, instead of my best friend, and then I would not have done the terrible things that I did...
Call it illegal or legal, it doesn't matter. What is done is done. Jewish immigration to Palestine was legal. And Palestinian terrorist action is illegal.
Actually, I take that phrase from the Palestinian paramilitaries who ravaged the town in Israel where I lived. The terrorist on the Palestinian side would not stop their attacks even if Israel stopped "driving people out of their homes." Besides, it's a recipricol thing, each side justifies it's actions based on the other sides actions. To say that Israel is more at fault simply because they are richer and have a real military is foolish, I think.
The current Israeli government was elected because the Palestinians refused the very generous offers (IMO) that were made by the previous government. That's not to justify Sharon's war crimes, but still there has to be compromise somewhere...
Yes, I lived in Israel. I was there with a group of different denominations of Christians. Unfortunately, the town in which I lived was the centre of some very serious unrest, and my group was the target of attacks from Palestinians, the Israeli Army, and Jewish parmalitaries.
Being one of the few with a military background (I served with the Australian Royal Army), I had to do what I could to protect my people, until we could leave. My experiences in Israel changed me into a completely different person, and the things I did there are the basis for my current belief in non-violence. I think that if most people truly understood what is going on there, they would not be as quick to condemn the Israelis as they are. Without the Zionist movement, Palestine would be a backward, poor, theocracy. If they ever make peace, the Palestinians will be much better off for having the Jews there. And to deny the Jews their historic homeland would be wrong, IMO. They were forced off their land by Babylonian invasion, and dispersed themselves around the world. They have since been subject to persecution everywhere, that still exists today.
It's a hard thing to say, but the taking of lives has to end. I have taken a human life before, and it's the most terrible thing that anyone can do. Having done that, I feel that I can say that they must all stop killing. Even killing in self defense will solve nothing. If I had it to do all over again, I wish that they would have killed me, instead of my best friend, and then I would not have done the terrible things that I did...
That's exactly the mentality that is going to cause billions of deaths in the near future. What do you think will happen when the rate of desertification increases by two-fold every year? What's going to happen when the world runs out of fossil fuels (which will happen in less than forty years by even the most generous of predictions?) What's going to happen when clean drinking water ceases to exist naturally (only by expensive purification, will drinking water be available?) What's going to happen when arable farm land is reduced to acreages too small to support the world's population?
All of these things are going to happen in our life-times, and unless something drastic is done, you and I may not die, but millions of people with less afluence will, and that's going to affect us in ways that niether you nor I can predict.
Smoky and I are good friends, and I'll have to kick your ass if you do...:LOL:
All of these things are going to happen in our life-times, and unless something drastic is done, you and I may not die, but millions of people with less afluence will, and that's going to affect us in ways that niether you nor I can predict.
Smoky and I are good friends, and I'll have to kick your ass if you do...:LOL:
I doubt all those things are going to happen in the net 40 years; maybe some, but not to the extent you make it out to be. There are always other places to drill fossil fuels from, and that should last us for many years after. Drinking water purifcation should not become too expensive for us, however of course the poorest countries will be most affected. Nobody really knows what will happen.
I am sure you know McGruff the police dog, will he come and take me away? :LOL:
I am sure you know McGruff the police dog, will he come and take me away? :LOL:
Isn't that caused by the terrible shape that the Ottoman empire was in. (correct me if i'm wrong here). After all these countries were devided post WWI.
How can you say that they had no potential for growth? I'm sorry, but what authorit to you have to make that assumption?
I can tell you one thing though. They are even poorer and worse off now. A while lot more too. When you're friends with the world super power, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to "grow."
So basically you're saying that you can push people off their lands if you are more well off then them?!!!
First part is true. Yes. However, let us look at the NOW. The WALL IS ILLEGAL, yet nothing is done about it. Their freedom fighting may be illegal, but isn't cutting people off from their sources of income and food illegal (like killing them)?!
Common Ian... you still don't get the meaning of what i said. These phrases are used to magnify their will power..etc. Whatever.. i can't put it into words ATM. It's like saying "I'll kick your ass" when you want to beat someone in a sports game or something. My friends and i say to each other "i'll break your head" when we play the soccer video games...They want to live! They no longer want to be oppressed.
Yes. It's an endless cycle. Though you are wrong when you say that Israel stopped. They have been slowly moving along and demolishing home and building settlements ever since. Even while peace talks go on.
Foolish?! Maybe. My only point was that if anybody is lebaled the aggressor, then it's Israel.
Arafat did make mistakes. Yes, I agree. I don't know why he lasted that long really.
The last statement is a must.
Sorry to hear that Ian about you and your friend.
You can't justify their continuous building of settlements by saying that Palestinians would be poor...etc. Will they be better off hand in hand. Yes, probably so. Like the Jews of Yathrib were at the time of the prophet. I just don't see how they are better off now even if they are mildly oppressed.
BTW, I thought you just said that that's the past and what's done is done!!? How will kicking Palestinians out make up for them being kicked out by Babylonians, Greeks, Romans or whatever?! Anyhow, I think both deserve to be there, but the oppression has to stop now.
How can you say that they had no potential for growth? I'm sorry, but what authorit to you have to make that assumption?
I can tell you one thing though. They are even poorer and worse off now. A while lot more too. When you're friends with the world super power, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to "grow."
So basically you're saying that you can push people off their lands if you are more well off then them?!!!
First part is true. Yes. However, let us look at the NOW. The WALL IS ILLEGAL, yet nothing is done about it. Their freedom fighting may be illegal, but isn't cutting people off from their sources of income and food illegal (like killing them)?!
Common Ian... you still don't get the meaning of what i said. These phrases are used to magnify their will power..etc. Whatever.. i can't put it into words ATM. It's like saying "I'll kick your ass" when you want to beat someone in a sports game or something. My friends and i say to each other "i'll break your head" when we play the soccer video games...They want to live! They no longer want to be oppressed.
Yes. It's an endless cycle. Though you are wrong when you say that Israel stopped. They have been slowly moving along and demolishing home and building settlements ever since. Even while peace talks go on.
Foolish?! Maybe. My only point was that if anybody is lebaled the aggressor, then it's Israel.
Arafat did make mistakes. Yes, I agree. I don't know why he lasted that long really.
The last statement is a must.
Sorry to hear that Ian about you and your friend.
You can't justify their continuous building of settlements by saying that Palestinians would be poor...etc. Will they be better off hand in hand. Yes, probably so. Like the Jews of Yathrib were at the time of the prophet. I just don't see how they are better off now even if they are mildly oppressed.
BTW, I thought you just said that that's the past and what's done is done!!? How will kicking Palestinians out make up for them being kicked out by Babylonians, Greeks, Romans or whatever?! Anyhow, I think both deserve to be there, but the oppression has to stop now.
++ [ originally posted by barkuss ] ++
We are the saints....we never wanted something that wasn't ours
Still....i don't see reasons for creating Israel state. Just cuz few survived moaned all the time and others managed to grab high positions in USA . Why don't you give gipsy's their own state? Huh,maybe you could empty Arkansas and fill it with gipsy's....
We are the saints....we never wanted something that wasn't ours
Still....i don't see reasons for creating Israel state. Just cuz few survived moaned all the time and others managed to grab high positions in USA . Why don't you give gipsy's their own state? Huh,maybe you could empty Arkansas and fill it with gipsy's....
Thats such bullshit, and you know it. Croatia has wanted a piece of Bosnia for hundreds of years.
++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
Thats such bullshit, and you know it. Croatia has wanted a piece of Bosnia for hundreds of years.
Thats such bullshit, and you know it. Croatia has wanted a piece of Bosnia for hundreds of years.
before hunderds of years Bosnia was ours,oups,there was no Bosnia before Turks ....oups,after the turks,Bosnia was ours,till Yugoslavia was created.....- Status