Board & Management (32 Viewers)

[Gigiventus]

Again where is the evidence? That is why the prosecutor asked for 30 days extension only accusations no concrete proofs.

I didn't say that we were guilty, the evidence is up to the prosecutors, courts, and lawyers to decide.

I said it's a very serious case, imo more so than the plusvalenza stuff

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[s4tch]

I'm not talking about sporting advantage. Accounting fraud is a crime. Juve is a publicly traded company, to not declare expenses is a serious thing as it purposely changes the valuation of the company to investors.

the club declared the expenses, that's one of the key reasons for our record losses post covid

 

[Valerio.]

i think (again, i think, just a guess) that the problem is the following
- players gave up on 4 months of wages on paper, which is fine, the league had an agreement with the clubs about this
- players still got paid the next season
- and here's the catch, they got paid through bonuses and other titles which aren't in their regular contract

wages are wages, and wages must be paid as wages. i'm not entirely familiar with the italian tax system, you might have more info on this, but if you pay wages and other benefits to employees, those might be charged with different taxes (payroll, personal income tax) and social contributions, so you're not allowed to pay wages as anything else. it's one of the more serious tax offenses in hungary, and since the european taxation systems are heavily harmonized, i'd say that italy might have similar rules.

also, communicating that players are nice guys, they agreed to give up on wages worth 4 months, we'll be fine after covid, then still paying benefits worth 3 months of wages is not entirely in line with the transparency rules.

i think that the whole plusvalenza case is a 100% witch hunt and the penalty is a joke, but the salary case maneuver was a risk not worth taking. players should have been forced to give up on those wages like with every other club - or wages should have been accounted as wages. even a consultation with the league would have been useful, at least the club would have a document with a figc stamp and signature on it telling us how to proceed.

we said that 4months unless Serie A restarted.
Giving that they had signed contracts how would you give them those money they accepted to forfeit for the moment?
I mean you couldn't have all of them re-sign a new contract with slightly higher wages?
So bonus were the most logical thing to do.
Also that bonus tax thing I'm not sure. I'm not really into taxes and stuff but if it were so I'd already see clubs giving 100k basic wages + almost sure bonus instead

 

[Scottish]

we said that 4months unless Serie A restarted.
Giving that they had signed contracts how would you give them those money they accepted to forfeit for the moment?
I mean you couldn't have all of them re-sign a new contract with slightly higher wages?
So bonus were the most logical thing to do.
Also that bonus tax thing I'm not sure. I'm not really into taxes and stuff but if it were so I'd already see clubs giving 100k basic wages + almost sure bonus instead

What about the bonuses Pogba has reportedly been getting?

They must be guaranteed because he's literally done nothing to deserve them

 

[Vlad]

i think (again, i think, just a guess) that the problem is the following
- players gave up on 4 months of wages on paper, which is fine, the league had an agreement with the clubs about this
- players still got paid the next season
- and here's the catch, they got paid through bonuses and other titles which aren't in their regular contract

wages are wages, and wages must be paid as wages. i'm not entirely familiar with the italian tax system, you might have more info on this, but if you pay wages and other benefits to employees, those might be charged with different taxes (payroll, personal income tax) and social contributions, so you're not allowed to pay wages as anything else. it's one of the more serious tax offenses in hungary, and since the european taxation systems are heavily harmonized, i'd say that italy might have similar rules.

also, communicating that players are nice guys, they agreed to give up on wages worth 4 months, we'll be fine after covid, then still paying benefits worth 3 months of wages is not entirely in line with the transparency rules.

i think that the whole plusvalenza case is a 100% witch hunt and the penalty is a joke, but the salary case maneuver was a risk not worth taking. players should have been forced to give up on those wages like with every other club - or wages should have been accounted as wages. even a consultation with the league would have been useful, at least the club would have a document with a figc stamp and signature on it telling us how to proceed.

In general Id disagree on this. Tax system in EU will never be heavily harmonized, vat, coorporate tax, customs on imports from non eu countries, taxes on salaries, contributions, etc... . Fiscal policy is left to the states and they wont give up their autonomy. Harmonization is only achieved in monetary one.
However, some principles are similar when it comes to payment to employees, regardless whether it is a performance related bonus, here you always have to pay contributions to the state and taxes. So it doesnt matter whether its labeled as a salary or some other cost. Id assume Italians arent too different in this respect.

 

[s4tch]

In general Id disagree on this. Tax system in EU will never be heavily harmonized, vat, customs on imports from non eu countries, taxes on salaries, contributions, etc... . Fiscal policy is left to the states and they wont give up their autonomy. Harmonization is only achieved in monetary one.
However, some principles are similar when it comes to payment to employees, regardless whether it is a performance related bonus, here you always have to pay contributions to the state and taxes. So it doesnt matter whether its labeled as a salary or some other cost. Id assume Italians arent too different in this respect.

many principles are harmonized, otherwise you can't support the free movement of labor or goods. tax rates aren't harmonized too much (there are some common limits though, see minimum vat or excise), but that wasn't my point

 

[Lion]

does italy follow IFRS accounting?

 

[juve123]

does italy follow IFRS accounting?

Yes since 2005.

 

[Lion]

Yes since 2005.

is it same for all euro union countries?

 

[Vlad]

I'm not talking about sporting advantage. Accounting fraud is a crime. Juve is a publicly traded company, to not declare expenses is a serious thing as it purposely changes the valuation of the company to investors.

What fraud? Expenses are always moved one way or the other. Here in my country the state imposed some kind of solidarity tax, due to current situation on the market (war in Ukraine, covid effects, etc, that will only have effect on 2022 results, and they will tax extra profit at higher rate. The solution? Everyone is pumping up costs now. I spent so many hours last months to invent all kind of costs my bookies will accrue.

 

[juve123]

The payment does not appear in the fiscal year of that year, so the Prosecutor’s Office considers it a crime of tax fraud.

“Dear Mr. Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro. We follow up on the agreements reached and attach to this document the one related to the complementary premium recognized in your favor and the subsequent complementary deed of the Complementary Prize Agreement”, reads the agreement unveiled this Thursday.

“In the event that, after his definitive transfer, the condition established for the accrual of the identified premiums is not met, he will have the right to receive an incentive for dismissal,” he adds.

The document was seized by the Italian financial police on March 23, 2022, according to the ‘Corriere’, during a search carried out at the ‘Juve’ offices, and it was only signed by the then sports director, the Italian Fabio Paratici.

 

[s4tch]

is it same for all euro union countries?

no, a few countries still apply their own standards

many companies can still apply ifrs if they want to. in hungary it's obligatory for public companies, most financial institutions, and most companies can chose it

 

[Vlad]

does italy follow IFRS accounting?

Afaik small and medium companies apply standards of their own countries but those heavily lean on Ifrs. Big companies apply Ifrs, mandatory. Juve applies Ifrs.

 

[AlexTheGreat]

we said that 4months unless Serie A restarted.
Giving that they had signed contracts how would you give them those money they accepted to forfeit for the moment?
I mean you couldn't have all of them re-sign a new contract with slightly higher wages?
So bonus were the most logical thing to do.
Also that bonus tax thing I'm not sure. I'm not really into taxes and stuff but if it were so I'd already see clubs giving 100k basic wages + almost sure bonus instead

I think the tax for bonus is higher than regular wages in most of the countries. If Juve paid taxes for bonues it means the payment is on the table not the other way around.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

I hope @Lion bonus for cancelling tv subscriptions are well documented, last thing I'd want is the figc to shut down Tuz, not to worry I'd defend it in a court of law

 

[Badass J Elkann]

It seems that only Marotta was the real genius in our club. Everyone else is a dumbass.
Hopefully we will not find guilty in any wrongdoing. Otherwise I do not want to think about the consequences. I am getting sick just by writing this. This time there will be riots in Turin ...

Изпратено от моят XQ-AU52 с помощта на Tapatalk

Tbh marotta was doing plus valenza just as much if not more so at Juve, only reason he's not in trouble is because he's not at Juve and at inter now

 

[vodka]

Tbh marotta was doing plus valenza just as much if not more so at Juve, only reason he's not in trouble is because he's not at Juve and at inter now

or had not been recording plusvalenzas on his notebook

 

[GordoDeCentral]

or had not been recording plusvalenzas on his notebook

Should not matter

 

[juve123]

The FIGC prosecutor opens a new investigation on Juve because of the presence of Luciano Moggi (banned) on the sideline in the Napoli - Juve Primavera game.(sportsface 2016)

 

[Bjerknes]

Someone slipped on banana peel.

Investigate Juve.