Blaise Matuidi (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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the thing with him is, hes about to turn 32. hes been playing heavy minutes since 2005 and he is someone whos not of a high technical level but his game relies on athleticism. hes still doing his thing at a WC level. which raises 2 questions. at what point will his physical abilities and level of play start declining and do you plan keeping him after that. we kept Khedira one season beyond his "expiring date" and are now left with an expensive 4th-5th choice reserve. instead, we could have had someone like Barella/Pellegrini with a season of top football under Allegri already under them, going into next season... but back to Blaise, how much longer are we guessing he can he keep playing at Juventus starter level? how much longer will we be getting quality offers for him? imo, we should consider selling him in the summer depending on how good the offers are and if we can find someone as good/better to replace him. if we had EPL like income, i wouldnt care about these things. id say keep him till he cant walk anymore and then let him walk for free. but since we struggle to stay at 400M revenue, we should be looking more into market opportunities in terms of sales as well, not just buys
@zizinho
Now that is a proper opinion. Also happens to be one I mostly agree with, but that is irrelevant.
I wonder why experds can't post their opinions, but instead go on to make moronic posts and irrelevant conclusions about other forum members. "The Insecure Group."
Pathetic.
Now that is a proper opinion. Also happens to be one I mostly agree with, but that is irrelevant.
I wonder why experds can't post their opinions, but instead go on to make moronic posts and irrelevant conclusions about other forum members. "The Insecure Group."
Pathetic.
Wat? I did? 
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Don't be sad @Klovn
Some truths are obvious without being said aloud.
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Don't be sad @Klovn
Some truths are obvious without being said aloud.
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I have to disagree with majority of your post. First of all, your level doesn't plummet all of a sudden after one season. As you said, Blaise has just led France to WC glory and is still performing at high level with Juve. As long as you're professional and motivated you will do your thing. It doesn't seem Blaise lacks any of these qualities. Also, you seem to undervalue experience. I wouldn't want to have Barella and Pellegrini instead of Khedira and Matuidi now. Why? Because I want Juve to win rather than watch few games per season when we play splendid football and our stars are shining in those matches but fail miserably when it really matters. That's how youth is, it crumbles under pressure. That's why clubs like Arsenal, Porto, BVB, Roma, Lyon win once in a blue moon.
As for the economical aspect, we got Matuidi for 30mln which is peanuts. Any talk about regaining any of this is pointless because we could get as much as for Benatia. As for our revenue, we spend like 100mln every summer, are at the top of bigger payers in the world of football. What else do you need? We just brought freaking Ronaldo and gave him 30mln net salary.
As for the economical aspect, we got Matuidi for 30mln which is peanuts. Any talk about regaining any of this is pointless because we could get as much as for Benatia. As for our revenue, we spend like 100mln every summer, are at the top of bigger payers in the world of football. What else do you need? We just brought freaking Ronaldo and gave him 30mln net salary.
Look at the other successful midfield trios across Europe. They don't have a Matuidi type of player in their ranks. Not Madrid, not Barca, not Bayern. Of course he's integral to this team, but the impact of his loss can be minimised and rectified. All it would require is altering the dynamics of the whole midfield, which would probably be the most sensible thing to do going forward since he's already 32.
Real Madrid won 3 CLs in a row by playing an attacking LB who supposedly can't defend & Kroos as LCM who is like the opposite to Matuidi in the sense that he doesn't really cover all that much ground and doesn't have that great a work-rate. His strengths come on the ball due to his tremendous ability to maintain possession (a modern day metronome) which is another way of stifling the opposition. Ronaldo also played on that side (which he vacated frequently to join the striker) which should mean there should be a huge void on the left shouldn't it...since Marcelo is usually so far forward? But that wasn't really the case.
In Real Madrid's 2016 CL triumph; they didn't concede a single goal at home in the entire KO phase. The scores were 2-0; 3-0; 1-0 from the RO16 to Semi-finals.
Barca's famous and hugely successful midfield trio of "Iniesta - Busquets - Xavi" also utilised similar midfield dynamics to that of Madrid 15-18'. Bayern's treble winning side also fielded a midfield of Kroos - Martinez - Schweinsteiger.
So the formula to CL winning sides have usually included a midfield consisting of two maestros than can dictate and dominate the flow of the game that are anchored either side of a CDM.
So maybe having a Matuidi type of player is great and all since he covers so much ground and wins the ball back like a champion, but it can also work against you at the very, very highest level when playing against the likes of Barca & Madrid since he doesn't really have the capacity to retain the ball or do much with it when he does win it. The most he can do is just give it to another teammate when does win it or lose the ball again. In the latter scenario, it would just initiate the cycle of him having to win the ball all over again meaning the team would always be on the back foot.
So the best form of defence is to have players that just don't the lose the ball. If the opposition can't get the ball, they can't hurt you. This point applies to games at the very highest level and is for me the difference between the very best teams and very good teams.
Real Madrid won 3 CLs in a row by playing an attacking LB who supposedly can't defend & Kroos as LCM who is like the opposite to Matuidi in the sense that he doesn't really cover all that much ground and doesn't have that great a work-rate. His strengths come on the ball due to his tremendous ability to maintain possession (a modern day metronome) which is another way of stifling the opposition. Ronaldo also played on that side (which he vacated frequently to join the striker) which should mean there should be a huge void on the left shouldn't it...since Marcelo is usually so far forward? But that wasn't really the case.
In Real Madrid's 2016 CL triumph; they didn't concede a single goal at home in the entire KO phase. The scores were 2-0; 3-0; 1-0 from the RO16 to Semi-finals.
Barca's famous and hugely successful midfield trio of "Iniesta - Busquets - Xavi" also utilised similar midfield dynamics to that of Madrid 15-18'. Bayern's treble winning side also fielded a midfield of Kroos - Martinez - Schweinsteiger.
So the formula to CL winning sides have usually included a midfield consisting of two maestros than can dictate and dominate the flow of the game that are anchored either side of a CDM.
So maybe having a Matuidi type of player is great and all since he covers so much ground and wins the ball back like a champion, but it can also work against you at the very, very highest level when playing against the likes of Barca & Madrid since he doesn't really have the capacity to retain the ball or do much with it when he does win it. The most he can do is just give it to another teammate when does win it or lose the ball again. In the latter scenario, it would just initiate the cycle of him having to win the ball all over again meaning the team would always be on the back foot.
So the best form of defence is to have players that just don't the lose the ball. If the opposition can't get the ball, they can't hurt you. This point applies to games at the very highest level and is for me the difference between the very best teams and very good teams.
Casemiro is comfortably better than Matuidi on the ball. But that's not really the point though. They play different roles. Matuidi plays the role of a marauding B2B LCM that covers a lot of ground while Casemiro plays the role of an anchor man and is the deepest midfielder of Madrid's trio - and is responsible for screening the defence. DMs like Casemiro, J. Martinez and Busquets rely more on anticipation and positioning to mop up possession (like a buffer) rather than consuming energy chasing shadows like Matuidi does.
A midfield trio of Matuidi - Pjanic - Berna is flawed because one of them isn't really a MF by trade which means a lot of the tactical nous that goes into playing that position is being compromised - which would be exacerbated at the very highest level. Could work for the run of the mill serie a game though.
A midfield trio of Matuidi - Pjanic - Berna is flawed because one of them isn't really a MF by trade which means a lot of the tactical nous that goes into playing that position is being compromised - which would be exacerbated at the very highest level. Could work for the run of the mill serie a game though.
We need complete overhaul of midfield department. Unfortunately I dont think one summer will be enough to correct the last several years of neglecting it. For the time being both Khedira & Matuidi need to start looking for a new home. If a good offer comes for Pjanic, we need to consider it as well if that would allows us to bring in more consistent midfielder and he comes off an age we usually start looking for offers. Ramsey is obviously someone we will rely upon in years to come. Can only arrived last summer so there is little chance to ship him off, while Bentacur showed decent potential so far. We can build on this.
what im saying is you have to look at both level of play and value on the market, not just one of the 2. once he starts declining you will be stuck with a player no one wants to give a decent offer for, which is why you have to anticipate that and sell at the right moment. he will still be a good reserve player when he drops a level or 2, so him staying is also fine by me, but not the preferred scenario.
i dont undervalue experience, on the contrary actually. im not saying we should have let go of our veterans and bring in these kids. but if we sold Khedira in the summer and got a Barella/Pellegrini/whoever, that play and Bentancur would already have some of that necessary experience to take on a bigger role in the 19-20 season, as opposed to letting Khedira walk now and get that same Barella/Pellgrini to sit next to Bentancur while we play Matuidi and Ramsey. so at what point are you gonna rely on those guys exactly? its the same with Rugani in defense, hes here for what, almost 4 years already? if you rate him enough to want more than 40M from Chelsea for him, then you should have confidence in him getting a bigger role in the CL. you dont have Barzagli ahead of him, you sell Benatia in the summer when hes still at his peak in terms of value, you keep Caldara and make him/Rugani the 3rd choice CB (not just in Serie A, in CL as well). and thats how you build these young guys into future champions... back to what i was saying. we sell Khedira last summer. we dont sign Emre Can. we sign a starter caliber mid and instead of Can add a young player with more potential, and thats a better situation than we have right now. now you are forced to play these kids more and we dont complain about their lack of experience when we need them to step up.
im not talking about regaining money, im talking about making money. if Benatia and Khedira left in the summer, thats what 20-25M of incoming transfer fee and 8M net in wages off the books. instead, we will get 10M for Mehdi (replace him with a semi retired journeyman, instead of having Caldara) and zero for Sami. the way we operate, you can expect the same for Matuidi as well. im suggesting maybe we should do it differently from now on, since our revenue doesent allow us to have 200M mercatos each summer. and please, dont mention Ronaldo. the guy is a money printing machine for himself and the club he plays for. hes a bargain even for how much we spent because of both the quality and the unmatched marketing aspect he brings. we spent 90M/7.5M net a year wages on Higuain after getting 100M for Pogba, and he still was a killer on the books, so we had to let him go after just 2 seasons.
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Can is a decent backup but expensive for my liking. we could have found a similar level player for cheaper in Serie A. or a younger player with more potential. i dont think we sell him in the summer either, but i hope he still has some value come summer 2020 and we finally make some grande profit on one of these free transfers.
i was saying all of last season how i think Khedira is gone, and i really thought he will since he seemed like the logical piece to replace and potentially upgrade on. we could have gotten a decent fee and instead of getting Can, we could have given a starter level CM 6M in wages and have either some cheap Serie A mid as the 5th mid or some young player with more potential. instead we kept Sami who we will struggle to get anything for now and gave Can 16M/5M a year. but it is what it is, i hope Ramsey will stay fit and develop the chemistry i expect him to with Pjanic and Matuidi. but i want more. another young top CM who will together with Bentancur replace Matuidi/Ramsey soon. if its just Ramsey we get that is just another sideways move with close to zero improvement
i dont undervalue experience, on the contrary actually. im not saying we should have let go of our veterans and bring in these kids. but if we sold Khedira in the summer and got a Barella/Pellegrini/whoever, that play and Bentancur would already have some of that necessary experience to take on a bigger role in the 19-20 season, as opposed to letting Khedira walk now and get that same Barella/Pellgrini to sit next to Bentancur while we play Matuidi and Ramsey. so at what point are you gonna rely on those guys exactly? its the same with Rugani in defense, hes here for what, almost 4 years already? if you rate him enough to want more than 40M from Chelsea for him, then you should have confidence in him getting a bigger role in the CL. you dont have Barzagli ahead of him, you sell Benatia in the summer when hes still at his peak in terms of value, you keep Caldara and make him/Rugani the 3rd choice CB (not just in Serie A, in CL as well). and thats how you build these young guys into future champions... back to what i was saying. we sell Khedira last summer. we dont sign Emre Can. we sign a starter caliber mid and instead of Can add a young player with more potential, and thats a better situation than we have right now. now you are forced to play these kids more and we dont complain about their lack of experience when we need them to step up.
im not talking about regaining money, im talking about making money. if Benatia and Khedira left in the summer, thats what 20-25M of incoming transfer fee and 8M net in wages off the books. instead, we will get 10M for Mehdi (replace him with a semi retired journeyman, instead of having Caldara) and zero for Sami. the way we operate, you can expect the same for Matuidi as well. im suggesting maybe we should do it differently from now on, since our revenue doesent allow us to have 200M mercatos each summer. and please, dont mention Ronaldo. the guy is a money printing machine for himself and the club he plays for. hes a bargain even for how much we spent because of both the quality and the unmatched marketing aspect he brings. we spent 90M/7.5M net a year wages on Higuain after getting 100M for Pogba, and he still was a killer on the books, so we had to let him go after just 2 seasons.
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Can is a decent backup but expensive for my liking. we could have found a similar level player for cheaper in Serie A. or a younger player with more potential. i dont think we sell him in the summer either, but i hope he still has some value come summer 2020 and we finally make some grande profit on one of these free transfers.
i was saying all of last season how i think Khedira is gone, and i really thought he will since he seemed like the logical piece to replace and potentially upgrade on. we could have gotten a decent fee and instead of getting Can, we could have given a starter level CM 6M in wages and have either some cheap Serie A mid as the 5th mid or some young player with more potential. instead we kept Sami who we will struggle to get anything for now and gave Can 16M/5M a year. but it is what it is, i hope Ramsey will stay fit and develop the chemistry i expect him to with Pjanic and Matuidi. but i want more. another young top CM who will together with Bentancur replace Matuidi/Ramsey soon. if its just Ramsey we get that is just another sideways move with close to zero improvement
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Yep. Sadly its that way. But Juventus is an italian team so they will never play like that, at least not with an italian coach, since playing ticky taca football is prohibited.
But i think Juventus should find a middle ground. Relying on nontechnical workhorses and a regista limits our gameplay too much.
The problem with our approach is the knockout games....specifically when we are behind in the score. We cant create chances naturally to come back and everything becomes a struggle. If we take a lead, we also start giving possesion and when we get the ball back, we dont know what to do with it because we are all pressed and lack the skill to solve the problem.
The rest of the CL teams all try to have at least one skilled playmaker on their midfield (not a regista but an offensive one able to get close and shoot or to create assists and win 1v1s).... but we play without any. This makes our possesion game way too unreliable and we always tend to go to the sides and hope for a good cross. Is way too predictable and luck based.
Another problem of the workhorse midfield vs the technical midfield is that once we lose possesion... our workhorse midfield needs to sacrifice way too much to get the ball back. This tire us , way too early. Thats why you see our team gassed at the 60 mins and starting to fall back and wait for a miracle to happen.
The workhorse midfield is sometimes good to close games the italian way... but is not for every game or every situation. By default..our midfielders should be skilled and have ONE battling midfielder skilled enough to pass the ball....or 2 if possible.
The optimal way would be to arrange our midfield and bench with ball playing midfielders, with a couple of them being a matuidi type player but able to pass a ball.
Right now we only have ONE proven ball player in Pjanic...the rest are averages and question marks....and even Pjanic is played way too behind to be able to consistently influence the game. He is better playing thrupasses in the 3/4 of the field... not plñaying as regista in front of bonucci.
Pirlo could do that because he had 2 dinamos at his side, and they were able to pass a ball at least...pjanic has no one to look to on the midfield. We are disjointed.
But i think Juventus should find a middle ground. Relying on nontechnical workhorses and a regista limits our gameplay too much.
The problem with our approach is the knockout games....specifically when we are behind in the score. We cant create chances naturally to come back and everything becomes a struggle. If we take a lead, we also start giving possesion and when we get the ball back, we dont know what to do with it because we are all pressed and lack the skill to solve the problem.
The rest of the CL teams all try to have at least one skilled playmaker on their midfield (not a regista but an offensive one able to get close and shoot or to create assists and win 1v1s).... but we play without any. This makes our possesion game way too unreliable and we always tend to go to the sides and hope for a good cross. Is way too predictable and luck based.
Another problem of the workhorse midfield vs the technical midfield is that once we lose possesion... our workhorse midfield needs to sacrifice way too much to get the ball back. This tire us , way too early. Thats why you see our team gassed at the 60 mins and starting to fall back and wait for a miracle to happen.
The workhorse midfield is sometimes good to close games the italian way... but is not for every game or every situation. By default..our midfielders should be skilled and have ONE battling midfielder skilled enough to pass the ball....or 2 if possible.
The optimal way would be to arrange our midfield and bench with ball playing midfielders, with a couple of them being a matuidi type player but able to pass a ball.
Right now we only have ONE proven ball player in Pjanic...the rest are averages and question marks....and even Pjanic is played way too behind to be able to consistently influence the game. He is better playing thrupasses in the 3/4 of the field... not plñaying as regista in front of bonucci.
Pirlo could do that because he had 2 dinamos at his side, and they were able to pass a ball at least...pjanic has no one to look to on the midfield. We are disjointed.
Yeah. That’s the unique thing about Madrid’s midfield that helped them win all those CLs in a row. Guys like Modric are supremely skilled with the ball at their feet but also don’t lack anything defensively either. He can do the dirty work and off-ball defensive duties almost as well as he can play the ball. Just check RM’s second leg against Bayern when they had no proper RB playing; Modric was virtually fulfilling his midfield duties and covering the ass of the FB defensively against a Ribery that was on his game simultaneously . Casemiro is also pretty good with the ball while being a warrior. The only one of their midfield 3 who isn’t as adept defensively and can be lazy is Kroos but he’s so good at recycling possession. He rarely misplaces a pass or gives the ball away. Just check his passing statistics.
Juve need midfielders who are adept and comfortable with the ball at their feet in tight situations, can create/drive forward whilst also not being slouches defensively. This as opposed to having midfield players that just have high work-rates but can’t do anything with the ball and get dominated against the likes of Lazio.
Juve need midfielders who are adept and comfortable with the ball at their feet in tight situations, can create/drive forward whilst also not being slouches defensively. This as opposed to having midfield players that just have high work-rates but can’t do anything with the ball and get dominated against the likes of Lazio.
