BIG Manifestation coming up(Juve, July 1st) (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
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j1897.it wrote to the only pro-Juve newspaper in Italy, here's what they wrote. I think we(JUVENTUZ) should do the same and sign it.
La Vecchia Signora esige rispetto.
Maggio 2006: la Juventus, la Signora del calcio, mostra qualche ruga (si sa, la vecchiaia, le mille battaglie…
ed ecco che le vecchie amiche invidiose, in attesa di questo momento ormai da anni, decidono di uscire allo scoperto e gridare la loro indignazione per i segni dell’età che si notano sul suo volto, ignorando del tutto i solchi che scavano il loro, di viso.
Nel maggio del 2006 si assiste, inoltre, all’esplosione di quello che è il primo potere e una delle armi più potenti al mondo: i mass media. Strumenti di comunicazione di massa che più di una volta abbiamo visto proporre e dare credito solo miriadi di accusatori e farisei ed ipocriti; che più di una volta, in questo periodo, abbiamo visto sostituirsi ai giudici, emettendo sentenze e quant’altro. Mass media che in questo momento approfittano di una situazione di grossa debolezza della Signora. Ne approfittano per stuprarla, quando fino a pochi giorni fa hanno fatto carte false per ottenere un suo sguardo.
In mezzo ci siamo noi, noi tifosi di J1897.
J1897.com è un luogo in cui convergono studenti, operai, liberi professionisti, docenti, avvocati, impiegati, imprenditori, giornalisti, medici, uomini e donne, giovani ed anziani, provenienti da ogni parte d’Italia, da ogni parte del mondo, con un unico grande punto d’incontro, la Signora.
J1897 è un tributo ad una Signora che esige rispetto: in una situazione delicata come quella attuale si pretende la massima chiarezza ma anche un totale rispetto. Rispetto per la Juventus degli Agnelli, per la Juventus dei Boniperti, dei Sivori, dei Bettega, dei Platini, dei Scirea, dei Del Piero.
Qualche gargarismo prima di sentenziare, in vaniloquio, giudizi sulla Signora non farebbe male.
Non si pretende l’assoluzione, sia chiaro. A colpa deve corrispondere pena. Ma solo quando verrà appurata, se verrà appurata, una colpa.
Per ora possiamo osservare solo una marea di lapidatori che scagliano alla cieca le loro pietre.
La Signora esige rispetto!
J1897 è intenzionato a combattere, civilmente si intende, per questo.
Lo staff di J1897.COM
If somebody knows how to write better than me in Italian maybe you could do it? Tuttosport talk about that site and maybe they will about us from the rest of the world.
Something about we are with Juve in the good and bad times.
We're sick of all the crap some media write about Juve.
If you want to do it in english good, somebody will translate it.
...
tuttosport e-mail.
[email protected]
La Vecchia Signora esige rispetto.
Maggio 2006: la Juventus, la Signora del calcio, mostra qualche ruga (si sa, la vecchiaia, le mille battaglie…
ed ecco che le vecchie amiche invidiose, in attesa di questo momento ormai da anni, decidono di uscire allo scoperto e gridare la loro indignazione per i segni dell’età che si notano sul suo volto, ignorando del tutto i solchi che scavano il loro, di viso.Nel maggio del 2006 si assiste, inoltre, all’esplosione di quello che è il primo potere e una delle armi più potenti al mondo: i mass media. Strumenti di comunicazione di massa che più di una volta abbiamo visto proporre e dare credito solo miriadi di accusatori e farisei ed ipocriti; che più di una volta, in questo periodo, abbiamo visto sostituirsi ai giudici, emettendo sentenze e quant’altro. Mass media che in questo momento approfittano di una situazione di grossa debolezza della Signora. Ne approfittano per stuprarla, quando fino a pochi giorni fa hanno fatto carte false per ottenere un suo sguardo.
In mezzo ci siamo noi, noi tifosi di J1897.
J1897.com è un luogo in cui convergono studenti, operai, liberi professionisti, docenti, avvocati, impiegati, imprenditori, giornalisti, medici, uomini e donne, giovani ed anziani, provenienti da ogni parte d’Italia, da ogni parte del mondo, con un unico grande punto d’incontro, la Signora.
J1897 è un tributo ad una Signora che esige rispetto: in una situazione delicata come quella attuale si pretende la massima chiarezza ma anche un totale rispetto. Rispetto per la Juventus degli Agnelli, per la Juventus dei Boniperti, dei Sivori, dei Bettega, dei Platini, dei Scirea, dei Del Piero.
Qualche gargarismo prima di sentenziare, in vaniloquio, giudizi sulla Signora non farebbe male.
Non si pretende l’assoluzione, sia chiaro. A colpa deve corrispondere pena. Ma solo quando verrà appurata, se verrà appurata, una colpa.
Per ora possiamo osservare solo una marea di lapidatori che scagliano alla cieca le loro pietre.
La Signora esige rispetto!
J1897 è intenzionato a combattere, civilmente si intende, per questo.
Lo staff di J1897.COM
If somebody knows how to write better than me in Italian maybe you could do it? Tuttosport talk about that site and maybe they will about us from the rest of the world.
Something about we are with Juve in the good and bad times.
We're sick of all the crap some media write about Juve.
If you want to do it in english good, somebody will translate it.
...
tuttosport e-mail.
[email protected]
Way 2 go people!The whole affair has been handled as if we are criminals.Investigations are still on,yet all the evidence has been leaked to the public and they are all having a go at us.Nothing has been proved yet,they are all still allegations;therefore we demand some respect.
Go on!!! raise hell guys!!!
Go on!!! raise hell guys!!!
please use the info in this news to write the letter
http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoId=52910
So on and on it goes, this disgusting and constant bombardment of information and simultaneous disinformation plaguing our favourite clubs. It has been a while since I’ve organized my thoughts but I’ve been paying very close attention. I am both upset and to an extent vindicated. I feel vindicated because, though the majority of comments surrounding my original article were positive, those few who doubted my analysis are now reading on the front page of newspapers everywhere that I may have in fact been on to something. It wasn’t only Juve was it? My original article used statistical analysis to show the immense similarities between the officials disciplinary action amongst the top clubs in Italy and now we see why. They were all in on it, some implicated and others not…yet. Certain fans had a hay day criticizing Juve only to find their club named the next morning, so be careful if yours hasn’t yet been named. No one is safe yet.
I feel I should say that I write today under the assumption that all accusations are true. This may not be the fairest approach but until proof and convictions are made (or not made) it is the only way to address the issue. The issue I wish to address is not so much that of the guilt or innocence of our clubs because this is now in the hands of the magistrates. I prefer to address the aspect that has made my blood boil, the “fans”.
What a disappointment. I have never hated a team, but have long despised certain groups of fans and that number is increasing as the numbers of comments on the web increase. My fellow Serie A addicts, I admire your passion because it is something we share, but why all the bitterness, hatred, and sheer lack of objectivity? Must we be blinded by the colours of the jerseys we wear? Does attacking another’s club move your club’s standing up? You have succeeded in making me sick. The last quote I read said “Juve players shouldn’t be allowed to compete in the World Cup” as if to say that they were the culprits and not victims just like us in this fiasco. I vowed at that point not to read anymore comments posted on the web so as to not subject myself to further stupidity.
People please stop this holier than thou act which has become stale. No one’s hands are clean in this. Just because your club has not had its reputation tarnished it’s not to say it won’t or that it shouldn’t. If these intercepts have revealed anything it is that this problem ran far deeper than the Juventus triad. They were the platform that led to all this because it was their phones that were tapped, but the names of so many have been brought forward proving that we’ve been taken for a ride by more than Juventus but by the League in its entirety. Some people’s quotes have baffled me. Berlusconi himself declared that the trophies of the last two seasons should be returned to him. When I read this I exploded. This man is the poster-boy for Italian corruption, be it political or economic and his team is under the same investigation, yet he has the gall to pass judgement.
Roberto Mancini made a less than positive impression when he said that he failed to see a balance and that he has long suspected foul play. He should know, he coached the implicated Lazio not too long ago and has been coaching an Inter that has benefited from bookings, suspensions, penalties, and offside goals as well. Don’t take it personally Interistas, but maybe there was more of a balance than he’s willing to admit. It bothers me that people are complaining about the very system that has long been keeping them at the top of the table.
Juve fans, stop defending. It’s up to the lawyers now. If there is innocence it’s on them to bring it to light, not you. We are just fans at the mercy of whatever the Italian “media” tells us. I understand your frustration but it is time to wait and see. After all Moggi is no one to you. In actual fact, you should hate him more than we do. I choose to lead by example. My little club has not yet been dragged through the mud, but I am not stupid. I am keeping my mouth shut because I have always followed Serie A with one eye on the field and the other on the agenda. Cagliari Calcio’s president Massimo Cellino is no one to admire in my opinion. He has long been accused of selling fixtures to the highest bidder and served as the Lega’s Vice President last season. If Milan is implicated then what are the odds that Galliani’s understudy Cellino be removed from the shady dealings? I feel certain that we Cagliaritani have little to criticize, but I don’t care. Next year be it Serie A, B, or C I will wear my jersey proudly and so should you because I am not a fan of my team’s management (who are not fans like us but greedy investors/gamblers instead) I’m a fan of my team and the players that represent it.
I too want Serie A (or football in general) to clean itself up. The way in which these one sided magistrates have conducted their investigations has minimized that possibility however. In a more organized country this would have been dealt with differently. Of course Juve stand at the guillotine, their phones were the only ones tapped! I already find it ridiculous that in a nation plagued with social problems, crime, war, illegal immigration, stagnant if not declining economy, and corruption in political, economical, and religious forms that resources were used to conduct round the clock audio and visual surveillance of a football club, but since it was done why then didn’t they do it right? As soon as other names and voices were heard why didn’t the investigators make formal requests to eavesdrop on the others now being investigated? Who knows how much more would have been unearthed? Who knows how many right now are counting their blessings that no one bothered to listen to their calls? Now the magistrates stand to “fix” Serie A’s problems by merely scratching the surface. This is now obviously a far bigger issue that won’t go away with a little action. This cancer has spread and Serie A needs to amputate more than a few limbs to eradicate it.
The suggestions of the fans have been less than encouraging. Strip Juve of her titles? Annul the scudetto? Demote Juventus? etc. etc. Who will this really benefit? What will it change? Why punish the fans that did nothing but follow their club through thick and thin? Why punish the players that only did their job by training and showing up on match day intent on playing hard? What did they do wrong? Don’t take away from their accomplishments this season where we all know they played incredibly. Believe it or not they are victims too. They were taken for a ride and fought valiantly for titles that will now forever be tainted if not taken away. The real culprits were the suits at the helm of all our clubs and it is they who should be punished. If you want to build a better future for Italian football, don’t waste time trying to rewrite history. That is more vindication than a cure. Will it really change anything if Juve wind up with 28 titles instead of 29? Is it fair to Inzaghi to not represent Italy in next year’s Champion’s League, or Toni, or Oddo in the UEFA Cup? No.
If you all are really ready to rewrite history than let’s do it right. Let’s go back to the 2005 scudetto and complete it. Let’s name the nameless. Wrongful doings saw Roma escape the relegation zone last year and make it to the finals of the Coppa, further landing them a spot in this year’s UEFA Cup. Can we go back in time and “unrelegate” Atalanta and Bologna and send Palermo to the Champions League alongside Sampdoria, who are also unlikely clean given the numerous times they benefited from mistakes made (including an offside Diana goal against Juve 1-0)? Would they deserve it? Let’s scrutinize every incident that helped Inter get past their difficult season. Like their games against Lazio, Lecce (annulled goal), Cagliari (hand ball goals), Messina (offside goal), and Palermo (denied penalty). Yes I followed very closely. Shall I continue? Let’s hear what was said on the phone by Moratti before their Supercoppa triumph. Should they have even been there? Should Juve have been there? Tell you what, let’s have Brescia and Bologna replay it and hand it to whoever was cleaner. Let’s go back to the 2004 Scudetto and strip the title from the already implicated Milan who scored more offside goals than anyone in the country that season. Let’s go back to the 2003 Supercoppa and ask Collina (demanded by Milan) why on Earth he granted a penalty to Milan where there was absolutely no foul according to every replay. Or the 2003 CL final where Dida was allowed to come three yards off his line to make stops, let’s find out why Cambiasso’s goal was called back against Inter in last year’s CL or why Sheva got away with head-butting Materazzi. Let’s go back to 2001 and strip Roma’s title from them since it is apparently illegal to give gifts to officials. Sure Mr. Sensi didn’t have Maseratis at his disposal but Rolex watches seemed to make their way to the most important people in the League anyway. Let’s go back to the last Lazio triumph in 2000 and find out why shady officiating cost Juve the title. Let’s analyze the 98 season (not final game but season as a whole) and see if the Inter fans are right, maybe they should have won that year. Let’s take it a step further and demand that Brazil be stripped of their last World Cup since Korea screwed Portugal, Italy, and Spain. Let’s have France’s Euro title from 2000 stripped too since I still can’t fathom how they were granted a penalty shot in their semi-final against Portugal. Let’s go back to the most corrupt World Cup in its history in 1938 that led to Italy’s eventual 2nd crowning and strip it too. Have we solved anything? Is it cleaner now? Or is it just altered? I as an Inter fan or a Palermo fan, or a Cagliari fan wouldn’t want a title handed to me by a magistrate; I’d prefer seeing them win it on the field. See that is because I love the sport, not the drama so many others are drawn to. If Juventus have 28 or 29, I really don’t care. Just do what needs to be done to better the game for 2006/2007.
My opinions are useless but I do have a suggestion. The problem fundamentally is the human element. Humans are greedy and stupid by nature. So take them out. Put more technology in the officiating which can override any official’s decision in real time via ear pieces and cameras. With videos being scrutinized (preferably from outside Italy via satellite) it would be very hard to corrupt the game. Then punish the guilty. Get rid of the presidents as a league governing body, which means Galliani, Cellino, Dalle Valle, Lotito, and whoever replaces Giraudo etc. Find out if the referees were being bribed or extorted, if they were being bribed fire and replace them. Done! Now we can enjoy the game. Now when Juve wins they can be congratulated and not brought to court. Now when Milan wins no one will roll their eyes and say “no wonder, look who runs the league”. When Inter wins they can enjoy and celebrate it, not demand it from a governing body. Maybe now the little guys will be teams with a chance and not mere pawns in the Milano/Torino game of chess.
Don’t wait for the owners and presidents to push this forward. Only the fans could bring this forward so petition for it instead of attacking each other. Don’t take the stupid route again. There is a saying in Italy that the Italian reader will enjoy, it goes “la madre degli imbecilli e’ sempre in cinta”, which means “the mother of imbeciles is always pregnant”. Start the abortion people. Open your eyes and see your team for what it is….a business that has exploited you regardless of her colours. Clean up Serie A from the inside out.
I hope the Nation can see past this in Germany. I hope Juve stays where they are but clean, as Serie wouldn’t be the same without her. To relegate Juve would mean possibly relegating Fiorentina, Lazio, and Milan and ruin Serie A and the Champions League/UEFA Cup. I want these teams to dominate Europe next year and help re-establish credibility in Italy’s football system. I love my country and my club but not blindly, and nor should you. Love them enough to make them better themselves. Only then will things improve.
I made something real fast. You can change it if you want or make some corrections.......
______________________
Enough is enough
It is true that when you don't support Juventus you are not just indifferent about them, you hate them with all your heart. What happened these past weeks have just been over the top. Yes, maybe mister Moggi made some mistakes, he may have abused or taken advantage of certian previleges he got over the years but can you condemn our team Juventus for that? It's time that us Tifosi with a capital T made our voice heard. It's time to take a stand and defend La Vecchia Signora from all the damage control that's been done. Some journalists and politicians have acted more like tifosi instead of doing their job. They try to convict Juventus without having all the facts and keep quiet on other things going around with other teams in this investigation. Yes, maybe the system in Italy is corrupted but Juventus shouldn't be the scapegoat for that.
Juventus is our team and we demand some respect. In good or bad times Juve will always be THE team we support and we are very proud of it.
staff of Juventuz.com
______________________
Enough is enough
It is true that when you don't support Juventus you are not just indifferent about them, you hate them with all your heart. What happened these past weeks have just been over the top. Yes, maybe mister Moggi made some mistakes, he may have abused or taken advantage of certian previleges he got over the years but can you condemn our team Juventus for that? It's time that us Tifosi with a capital T made our voice heard. It's time to take a stand and defend La Vecchia Signora from all the damage control that's been done. Some journalists and politicians have acted more like tifosi instead of doing their job. They try to convict Juventus without having all the facts and keep quiet on other things going around with other teams in this investigation. Yes, maybe the system in Italy is corrupted but Juventus shouldn't be the scapegoat for that.
Juventus is our team and we demand some respect. In good or bad times Juve will always be THE team we support and we are very proud of it.
staff of Juventuz.com