Not everybody shares your opinion, Erkka. Thought that would be rather obvious..
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Bench Discussion (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
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Then don't buy it, but honestly I don't believe in that argument at all. Yes, Capello have used the same players so far. So what, only 10 games have passed and the players' versatility hasn't gone anywhere. You know as well as I do that Zambrotta is an excellent midfielder too, not to mention Mutu. You even said it yourself in some match-topic. Real-life football isn't FM, you can't change the whole squad for every second game.
As for Vieira's absence, why wouldn't Juve handle it because they won the title last year too without him? Current squad is incredibly talented and most importantly non-dependant of any single player. It's by far the most important thing that Capello has achieved with Juve, it's something that Lippi couldn't do few years back (Nedved). What more could they prove to you? They even coped last year when both Trezeguet AND Zlatan were injured, not to mention Ibra's ridicilously long ban on spring. This years team has improved dramatically in the area that caused problems last season. Vieira, Chiellini, Mutu and the others bring everything that is needed. Now all Juve lacks is luck, when everyone is fit this team is unstoppable and has every chance to win every trophy available.
As for Giannichedda and Blasi, what do they lack? They're perfect subs. Once again I'll ask, what the hell more do you people want? Makelele and Cambiasso as subs? Oh no, they're too one-dimensional too...
What more do they have to prove? Blasi is still young and in the latter stages of last season he failed simply because he couldn't yet play all the games for Juve. Early last season he was fantastic, I can't see any reason why he couldn't do the same now. Giannichedda is very similar to Tacchinardi, and to be honest I'd rather kept Tacchi on the summer because of his status and history with Juve. Well, Capello and Moggi decided otherwise and now Juve has another proven ball-winner as back-up. He's good enough, but not dazzling as you'd love to see. He's not very mediasexy but he does his job, time after time. I love his type of players, the furinos of the present time.
Of course the absence of Vieira or Émerson or Camoranesi would has influence on the team, they're key players, no team in the world could replace them perfectly. It's a chance you've got to take. Incalculabity is the salt of football, it would be boring otherwise because Chelsea would win everything.
Yes, of course it's obvious. But the record so far speaks for itself... And yes, I might be wrong here but I'd say that you tend to start your posts like you did start this topic. To be frank, I don't like it but as always it's your own choice.
Always been. 
And I am posting regularly.
As for Vieira's absence, why wouldn't Juve handle it because they won the title last year too without him? Current squad is incredibly talented and most importantly non-dependant of any single player. It's by far the most important thing that Capello has achieved with Juve, it's something that Lippi couldn't do few years back (Nedved). What more could they prove to you? They even coped last year when both Trezeguet AND Zlatan were injured, not to mention Ibra's ridicilously long ban on spring. This years team has improved dramatically in the area that caused problems last season. Vieira, Chiellini, Mutu and the others bring everything that is needed. Now all Juve lacks is luck, when everyone is fit this team is unstoppable and has every chance to win every trophy available.
As for Giannichedda and Blasi, what do they lack? They're perfect subs. Once again I'll ask, what the hell more do you people want? Makelele and Cambiasso as subs? Oh no, they're too one-dimensional too...
What more do they have to prove? Blasi is still young and in the latter stages of last season he failed simply because he couldn't yet play all the games for Juve. Early last season he was fantastic, I can't see any reason why he couldn't do the same now. Giannichedda is very similar to Tacchinardi, and to be honest I'd rather kept Tacchi on the summer because of his status and history with Juve. Well, Capello and Moggi decided otherwise and now Juve has another proven ball-winner as back-up. He's good enough, but not dazzling as you'd love to see. He's not very mediasexy but he does his job, time after time. I love his type of players, the furinos of the present time.Of course the absence of Vieira or Émerson or Camoranesi would has influence on the team, they're key players, no team in the world could replace them perfectly. It's a chance you've got to take. Incalculabity is the salt of football, it would be boring otherwise because Chelsea would win everything.
++ [ originally posted by AtotheB ] ++
What are you on about here, Erkka? Again, just because you see the team one way doesn't mean everybody concurs with you. Righteous martyr?
What are you on about here, Erkka? Again, just because you see the team one way doesn't mean everybody concurs with you. Righteous martyr?
++ [ originally posted by Dan ] ++
jesus Erkka, since when did you become so wise?
And why arent you posting more regularly?
jesus Erkka, since when did you become so wise?
And why arent you posting more regularly?
And I am posting regularly.
++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++
As for Giannichedda and Blasi, what do they lack? They're perfect subs. Once again I'll ask, what the hell more do you people want? Makelele and Cambiasso as subs? Oh no, they're too one-dimensional too...
As for Giannichedda and Blasi, what do they lack? They're perfect subs. Once again I'll ask, what the hell more do you people want? Makelele and Cambiasso as subs? Oh no, they're too one-dimensional too...
We do not want much more, but a society that is content to the line of completeness stops evolving. And your right in that Both Makelele and Cambiasso are the same as Giannichedda and/or Blasi but better…
Of course we cant have gamewinning creative midfielders on the bench that are worldclass. But we could have some creative alternative other then Oliviera on the bench. I count Mutu as an attacker.
This is where you could have a very talented young player in your squad. Look at Barcelona with Messi as an great example.
well i have to say erkka is spot on in almost all counts..i have to agree.
Talking about chelsea raising the bar, well they have.But we cant just be like chelsea.Unless we can get a millionere that will just pay for everything without thinking, i dont think we can have the same squad!Actually i dont a goddam multi-billionere taking over our club!
Many ppl here just want the perfect squad, great players on the field and great players on the bench.We just can't have that, and actually i dont want that.I like the way juve handles their players, and the way we just know wat players we need, year after year.
Many ppl here talked about how the solution for our problems is "pizzaro"... where is he now?Inter and he choked... this just shows that Moggi &co always make the best decisions when it comes to transfers, and this squad is just amazing.I expected players like chiellini,balzaretti to leave.But they kept them.I know that in regards for the CL we r not the best.But i think we can win it all, if the players keep the intesity, and if they have the drive to win it at the end.Which is wat i didnt see in the bayern game.. and i hope i will see that emotion later on.I think that is the thing that we have and nobody has that in them.
The talk about Gianni is important.He is the sub for both our DM's, i think he is a step up from tacchi and appiah defensively.However appiah's offesive abilities are better, but his passing is just way under the juve faithful expect.
For me unlike other members here i think that Manuele blasi is the better of the two, only becuz he played soo much with emo, and although his passing isnt as good, he knows how to run with the ball through the middle of the field.
Talking about chelsea raising the bar, well they have.But we cant just be like chelsea.Unless we can get a millionere that will just pay for everything without thinking, i dont think we can have the same squad!Actually i dont a goddam multi-billionere taking over our club!
Many ppl here just want the perfect squad, great players on the field and great players on the bench.We just can't have that, and actually i dont want that.I like the way juve handles their players, and the way we just know wat players we need, year after year.
Many ppl here talked about how the solution for our problems is "pizzaro"... where is he now?Inter and he choked... this just shows that Moggi &co always make the best decisions when it comes to transfers, and this squad is just amazing.I expected players like chiellini,balzaretti to leave.But they kept them.I know that in regards for the CL we r not the best.But i think we can win it all, if the players keep the intesity, and if they have the drive to win it at the end.Which is wat i didnt see in the bayern game.. and i hope i will see that emotion later on.I think that is the thing that we have and nobody has that in them.
The talk about Gianni is important.He is the sub for both our DM's, i think he is a step up from tacchi and appiah defensively.However appiah's offesive abilities are better, but his passing is just way under the juve faithful expect.
For me unlike other members here i think that Manuele blasi is the better of the two, only becuz he played soo much with emo, and although his passing isnt as good, he knows how to run with the ball through the middle of the field.
What is this supposed to mean? Of course they're not even coming on the pitch even if we are leading, Vieira and Émerson are more than capable of doing defensive duties. They're not THAT different from Vieira and Émerson, though two latter guy do have more abilities with ball.
Creativity is definitely overrated. Juve's current squad doesn't offer that much creativity, but it still wins the game by sheer power, iron determination and most importantly effectiviness. In Juve all know their duties, Capello has done amazing job sharing roles to his players. I don't think that playmaker-types are needed and I don't even believe that they'd have space in Juve. We discussed about this earlier too, while Andy would have preferred Pizarro instead of Vieira, I took the opposite opinion.
edit: Last year the team that didn't have any creativity or flair scored most goals in Serie A. Not too shabby.
About Messi, he is a great exception and you know it too. He's someone who actually has developed during his time at big club's youth system.
Creativity is definitely overrated. Juve's current squad doesn't offer that much creativity, but it still wins the game by sheer power, iron determination and most importantly effectiviness. In Juve all know their duties, Capello has done amazing job sharing roles to his players. I don't think that playmaker-types are needed and I don't even believe that they'd have space in Juve. We discussed about this earlier too, while Andy would have preferred Pizarro instead of Vieira, I took the opposite opinion.
edit: Last year the team that didn't have any creativity or flair scored most goals in Serie A. Not too shabby.
About Messi, he is a great exception and you know it too. He's someone who actually has developed during his time at big club's youth system.
I was not necessary talking about a substitution with Either Viera nor Emerson.
Power and determination, yes. We lacked that in the last game.
Effectiveness is our trademark and about creativity, just read below…
My point was that he is not in the starting 11 and a young super talent. As C.Ronaldo was before being bought to utd…
EDIT: Christ.. I mean..., I do agree with what your saying just that I believe we can find improvement even though our results this far is superb. I do not seek in finding someone who should bare the houndhead when there is no head to bare...
Power and determination, yes. We lacked that in the last game.
Effectiveness is our trademark and about creativity, just read below…
My point was that he is not in the starting 11 and a young super talent. As C.Ronaldo was before being bought to utd…
EDIT: Christ.. I mean..., I do agree with what your saying just that I believe we can find improvement even though our results this far is superb. I do not seek in finding someone who should bare the houndhead when there is no head to bare...
Again you miss the point...what is versatility when a coach doesn't use it? If Vieira is out he will use Giannichedda no matter what...if Nedved is out he is seemingly more happy to field Chiellini...if Camoranesi is out he will switch Nedved to the right flank where he continues to fail...versatility is nothing when the coach doesnt use it. Same formation and tactics every match.
I'm more concerned with the Champions League than the Scudetto race...thought I made that clear in my original post. Of course we won the Scudetto with Blasi, however our displays were not always so safe and sound.
Luck? You sound like Capello...if we are waiting for luck we'll have to wait forever. What a silly attitude IMO.
What do they lack? Are you kidding me Erkka...you should be able to figure that out yourself.
Come again?
I'm more concerned with the Champions League than the Scudetto race...thought I made that clear in my original post. Of course we won the Scudetto with Blasi, however our displays were not always so safe and sound.
Luck? You sound like Capello...if we are waiting for luck we'll have to wait forever. What a silly attitude IMO.
What do they lack? Are you kidding me Erkka...you should be able to figure that out yourself.
Come again?
++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++
oh FFS, don't always make yourself a righteous martyr Andy, you've also been wrong in many occasions just like the others. I have been very disappointed with you lately, specially when I saw "point" about Capello, Milan and Ajax in CL-final. Get yourself ass back to the quality posts!!
But now back to business, I firmly believe that the bench offers much more width than last year. You didn't mention Kovac, who is more than capable back-up for Thuram or even Cannavaro on his good day. Last year we lacked everything on that department, Montero wasn't any good. As for midfield, VERSATILITY is the key. I can't believe that you are honestly claiming that Juve doesn't have back-ups for Nedved and Camoranesi. Mutu can easily handle the left wing and Zambrotta could replace Camoranesi on the right flank if necessary. As for Émerson and Vieira, one of them can be out without the quality of play suffering that much. As for Olivera, he isn't around because he is currently injured.
Besides, WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? You just can't have world class players as subs everywhere!!
oh FFS, don't always make yourself a righteous martyr Andy, you've also been wrong in many occasions just like the others. I have been very disappointed with you lately, specially when I saw "point" about Capello, Milan and Ajax in CL-final.
Get yourself ass back to the quality posts!!But now back to business, I firmly believe that the bench offers much more width than last year. You didn't mention Kovac, who is more than capable back-up for Thuram or even Cannavaro on his good day. Last year we lacked everything on that department, Montero wasn't any good. As for midfield, VERSATILITY is the key. I can't believe that you are honestly claiming that Juve doesn't have back-ups for Nedved and Camoranesi. Mutu can easily handle the left wing and Zambrotta could replace Camoranesi on the right flank if necessary. As for Émerson and Vieira, one of them can be out without the quality of play suffering that much. As for Olivera, he isn't around because he is currently injured.
Besides, WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? You just can't have world class players as subs everywhere!!
1)For ur first point abt how he doesnt like to change the formation or the tactics, i dont think thats a good idea.Changing the tactics when u dont need to will hurt the team more than it will benefit it. If u want to change the players more often then ur calling for a rotation system, and i dont think that it is very good.Capello tried at the begining of the season and it didnt work.Rijkard is ttrying to use it in Barca, and look how r they playing...
And why would he need to change the tactics, if he doesnt need to ?we won 9/10.Which in anyones opinion is very good.
I agree with u abt neddy though, he needs to rethink his performances on the bench.
2) for ur 2nd point, even if u have the best team in the world, with the best players, without luck they wont win the CL especially.Everyone saw how chelsea went out last season, and how liver won the CL.And how chelsea went actually through to meet liverpool!!You actually need a whole lot of luck.
3)ur 3rd point was abt focusing on the CL.Ur not the only one who wants the CL to finally come here.
But also u said the team's display weren't always safe and convincing...well if u want to see great displays and winning as well, am sorry to say this but u should start watching Chelsea or Real Madrid(i know ur a true juve fan though)
4) abt gianni and blasi..i know they r not the best.But we can't get the best.I guess capello wanted C.Zanetti, but we couldn't get him.I guess he is better than both of them.And also remember we cant always get the best.
forzaa juvee
And why would he need to change the tactics, if he doesnt need to ?we won 9/10.Which in anyones opinion is very good.
I agree with u abt neddy though, he needs to rethink his performances on the bench.
2) for ur 2nd point, even if u have the best team in the world, with the best players, without luck they wont win the CL especially.Everyone saw how chelsea went out last season, and how liver won the CL.And how chelsea went actually through to meet liverpool!!You actually need a whole lot of luck.
3)ur 3rd point was abt focusing on the CL.Ur not the only one who wants the CL to finally come here.
But also u said the team's display weren't always safe and convincing...well if u want to see great displays and winning as well, am sorry to say this but u should start watching Chelsea or Real Madrid(i know ur a true juve fan though)
4) abt gianni and blasi..i know they r not the best.But we can't get the best.I guess capello wanted C.Zanetti, but we couldn't get him.I guess he is better than both of them.And also remember we cant always get the best.
forzaa juvee
++ [ originally posted by A_LAcki ] ++
:thumb: Great post and spot on! Andy, you really become kind of a drama queen, and I really think you are overreacting! On the other hand, listen to the finish. They are always right! Thats because of the Finnlandia Vodka!
:thumb: Great post and spot on! Andy, you really become kind of a drama queen, and I really think you are overreacting! On the other hand, listen to the finish. They are always right! Thats because of the Finnlandia Vodka!
It's not all about changing tactics every match as you also have to change your approach to fit the respective match. Does Mourinho set his side out to play every match the same way? Of course not. Just look at what he advised his team to do last season in the Champions League...defend against Barca at Camp Nou then come back to the Bridge attacking furiously against Barca's advanced backline, not just saying "let's take our time" like Capello during the Liverpool second leg. Then Mourinho switched tactics up for matches against Bayern and was successful.
You cannot win the Champions League playing the same way every single match...fielding the same team and using the same tactical mentality. You just can't. It works in the Scudetto race but not in Europe when you have great teams who all play different ways and compete in a two-legged knockout system. Playing every match like it's the same is foolishness IMO.
Of course you need some "luck," however sitting around waiting for it is foolishness beyond words...the best teams in this world have luck on their side because they deserve it most of the time. Relying on luck to win us the Champions League will not get us anywhere.
Now, why does this matter?
As a supporter of this club I think I'm entitled to state my opinion on how things should be run...I do not know how one can differentiate who is a real supporter just by looking at their views on tactics...doesnt make much sense.
You cannot win the Champions League playing the same way every single match...fielding the same team and using the same tactical mentality. You just can't. It works in the Scudetto race but not in Europe when you have great teams who all play different ways and compete in a two-legged knockout system. Playing every match like it's the same is foolishness IMO.
Of course you need some "luck," however sitting around waiting for it is foolishness beyond words...the best teams in this world have luck on their side because they deserve it most of the time. Relying on luck to win us the Champions League will not get us anywhere.
Now, why does this matter?
As a supporter of this club I think I'm entitled to state my opinion on how things should be run...I do not know how one can differentiate who is a real supporter just by looking at their views on tactics...doesnt make much sense.
