Belgium bombings 22-Mar-2016 (1 Viewer)

[Seven]

The could have smuggled brought in brought out trained and returned, they could and did whatever they wanted with this great system. One thing they should have done, is block them at the boarder and there they should have reviewed them.

They did. But it is impossible to see whether or not someone meets the criteria of the Refugee Convention during a two hour talk at the border. These things need time.

 

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[Raz]

I'm not sure who did it, but it's not wrong to say we should have controls at the border and screening of migrants. That is like national security 101. It also seems that Belgium is lacking in terms of intelligence against possible threats as well, unlike the Germans who seemingly have sniffed out possible attacks a few times now.

If these were home-grown Belgians upset over racism, lack of opportunities, et cetera, you’re not going to solve that by improving their conditions either since they are attached to their radical ideology. Of course you can and should attempt to make things better, but you’ll still have to manage the threat. To me, that shouldn’t mean making everyone else’s lives more painful just to accommodate certain folks. That’s why you need targeted intelligence instead of broad police state measures like we see in the US, all of which I abhor.

In expence of the current citizens even, that's fucked up as it can be. If it were some utopia great, but it isn't. Most of the immigrants that come here they really don't come to improve communities. Not to knock on islam, but usually they create their own societies that are not integrated in the ones they seek shelter and leach from.

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They did. But it is impossible to see whether or not someone meets the criteria of the Refugee Convention during a two hour talk at the border. These things need time.

That's my point. Build tents or whatver, and only when you're sure let them in.

 

[Seven]

That's my point. Build tents or whatver, and only when you're sure let them in.

That's logistically impossible unless you create large refugee camps along the EU border and you organize a massive centralized EU effort around the refugee crisis. I don't think it is possible for all EU member states to agree to such a thing.

 

[Raz]

That's logistically impossible unless you create large refugee camps along the EU border and you organize a massive centralized EU effort around the refugee crisis. I don't think it is possible for all EU member states to agree to such a thing.

I think for all EU members to agree on anything is mostly impossible. But letting them in so easily is crazy. And when merkel even called for all of them because of some dudes in a warm cozy room full of economists that look at people as numbers and economic unit said - it would be great idea to bring those migrants in because one migrant = so and so GDP. Well that was absolutely crazy thing to do.

And even if you are saying that this has nothing to do with it and that paris and belgium would have happened even if no one was allowed access it still seems, I very much disagree with that and to me the corelation is very clear.

 

[ZoSo]

I've met lots of Syrians and Iraqis who were very well educated, learned Dutch within months and have done their utmost best to integrate in our society despite their very obvious post traumatic stress disorders. You describe them as savages, but they are not. They were expensive watches and use smartphones just like you in many cases.

But that's not even the point. You're saying that if we prevent refugees from entering Europe that terrorist attacks wouldn't happen. Clearly the opposite is true as these attacks are carried out by Europeans.

In every case there are always bad apples, just like the ones who've done this today. It's common sense really. You are taking from the same group but even more war torn and fucked up with less background checks and bigger numbers. I'm not sure what watches and smartphones have to do with anything. ISIS use them too.

"Europeans" who have gone overseas to fight for terrorism where some of those refugees could have been fighting alongside them...

 

[Seven]

I think for all EU members to agree on anything is mostly impossible. But letting them in so easily is crazy. And when merkel even called for all of them because of some dudes in a warm cozy room full of economists that look at people as numbers and economic unit said - it would be great idea to bring those migrants in because one migrant = so and so GDP. Well that was absolutely crazy thing to do.

And even if you are saying that this has nothing to do with it and that paris and belgium would have happened even if no one was allowed access it still seems, I very much disagree with that and to me the corelation is very clear.

There is no causation.

1. There is a conflict in Syria.
2. We have Belgian and French extremists who go to fight in this conflict.
3. Syrians are fleeing from this conflict and seek asylum in Europe.
4. We have terrorist attacks in Europe, which we know are carried out by Europeans.

How likely do you think it is that the very people who are fleeing from terrorism in their own country are responsible for terrorism in Europe? I'd say not likely.

How likely do you think it is that Europeans who are from the same organization that is fueling a huge conflict in Syria are in fact reponsible for the terrorist attacks in Europe? I'd say that is pretty plausible.

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In every case there are always bad apples, just like the ones who've done this today. It's common sense really. You are taking from the same group but even more war torn and fucked up with less background checks and bigger numbers. I'm not sure what watches and smartphones have to do with anything. ISIS use them too.

"Europeans" who have gone overseas to fight for terrorism where some of those refugees could have been fighting alongside them...

That's all well and good, but you're ignoring the fact that we know that the attacks in Paris were carried out by Europeans, not by refugees. You can't refuse people asylum just because you don't like them.

 

[Bjerknes]

In expence of the current citizens even, that's $#@!ed up as it can be. If it were some utopia great, but it isn't. Most of the immigrants that come here they really don't come to improve communities. Not to knock on islam, but usually they create their own societies that are not integrated in the ones they seek shelter and leach from.

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That's my point. Build tents or whatver, and only when you're sure let them in.

Unfortunately that is the case for a lot of people. Really, they are improving their own living conditions, not the country as a whole. The question then becomes is how do you limit intake of immigrants without being accused of racism. At some point, a nation can reach a breaking point.

 

[Raz]

There is no causation.

1. There is a conflict in Syria.
2. We have Belgian and French extremists who go to fight in this conflict.
3. Syrians are fleeing from this conflict and seek asylum in Europe.
4. We have terrorist attacks in Europe, which we know are carried out by Europeans.

How likely do you think it is that the very people who are fleeing from terrorism in their own country are responsible for terrorism in Europe? I'd say not likely.

How likely do you think it is that Europeans who are from the same organization that is fueling a huge conflict in Syria are in fact reponsible for the terrorist attacks in Europe? I'd say that is pretty plausible.

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That's all well and good, but you're ignoring the fact that we know that the attacks in Paris were carried out by Europeans, not by refugees. You can't refuse people asylum just because you don't like them.

How likely that every refugee is a terrorist? Well I would say it's not close but an even 0. How likely that such open borders terrorist get in or smuggle or in any way "help" their effort? I would say it's pretty close to a certainty.

They do need weapons, they do need training and all this chaos is helping them. All this ISIS stuff in EU started when migrant crisis got out of hand.

I agree with you on the last part. And I say just get out of there and leave them be, they can kill each other until they get bored.

 

[Bjerknes]

I think for all EU members to agree on anything is mostly impossible. But letting them in so easily is crazy. And when merkel even called for all of them because of some dudes in a warm cozy room full of economists that look at people as numbers and economic unit said - it would be great idea to bring those migrants in because one migrant = so and so GDP. Well that was absolutely crazy thing to do.

And even if you are saying that this has nothing to do with it and that paris and belgium would have happened even if no one was allowed access it still seems, I very much disagree with that and to me the corelation is very clear.

That whole building GDP stuff was always a farce. It was globalism wrapped in sound economic policy.

 

[Seven]

Unfortunately that is the case for a lot of people. Really, they are improving their own living conditions, not the country as a whole. The question then becomes is how do you limit intake of immigrants without being accused of racism. At some point, a nation can reach a breaking point.

Well, you apply the law. You have to meet certain criteria to immigrate to the EU. There are most certainly not enough people who do to reach a breaking point. Far from it. What we need to focus on is applying the law correctly. And I'd say that, while it may have been and will be very tough, the EU will manage to deal with the refugee crisis.

The terror thing is something else and to me it seems like an infinitely more complex issue.

 

[YougmanRumble]

i work at the airport and had to work at 12 today. waiting to get news of my collegues. so stressful & so sad

 

[Enron]

How likely that every refugee is a terrorist? Well I would say it's not close but an even 0. How likely that such open borders terrorist get in or smuggle or in any way "help" their effort? I would say it's pretty close to a certainty.

They do need weapons, they do need training and all this chaos is helping them. All this ISIS stuff in EU started when migrant crisis got out of hand.

I agree with you on the last part. And I say just get out of there and leave them be, they can kill each other until they get bored.

Wait. you are arguing that domestic terrorist in belgium need to smuggle weapon from syria, through the refugee pipeline?

 

[Raz]

That's all well and good, but you're ignoring the fact that we know that the attacks in Paris were carried out by Europeans, not by refugees. You can't refuse people asylum just because you don't like them.

Wasn'\t one of the terrorist in paris attacks was a known refugee, or a guy that went in syria and came back?

I really can't understand how hard it is for a lawer to understand that process of accepting people without passports and any other identification purely on their word is fucked up? Some of them don't even speak sirian yet they introduce themselfs as syrian and the authorities has no other choise but to list them as syrians refugees... With processes like that anything can happen.

 

[Seven]

How likely that every refugee is a terrorist? Well I would say it's not close but an even 0. How likely that such open borders terrorist get in or smuggle or in any way "help" their effort? I would say it's pretty close to a certainty.

They do need weapons, they do need training and all this chaos is helping them. All this ISIS stuff in EU started when migrant crisis got out of hand.

I agree with you on the last part. And I say just get out of there and leave them be, they can kill each other until they get bored.

No, it didn't. In fact ISIS is one of the reasons we have a refugee crisis in the first place. People are constantly making the same mistake you are making here.

And again, so far there have been no cases of a Syrian getting into the EU, applying for asylum and planning a terrorist attack. That's not what is going on at all. I don't know why people think that this is the case.

 

[Raz]

Wait. Do you are arguing that domestic terrorist in belgium need to smuggle weapon from syria, through the refugee pipeline?

It's one of the possibilities. Is it so easy for an belgian muslim to buy an AK47 there?

 

[ZoSo]

That's all well and good, but you're ignoring the fact that we know that the attacks in Paris were carried out by Europeans, not by refugees. You can't refuse people asylum just because you don't like them.

We do it here in Australia just fine. I'm not sure what's so noble about importing savages for cheap labour (75% men at some points) under the guise of asylum. And having your heads so far up your own asses thinking you can make them civilised by throwing money or whatever at them. Sure some of them may fit in ok but many are just savages pure and simple. Look at all the rapes that get swept under the rug.

 

[Enron]

It's one of the possibilities. Is it so easy for an belgian muslim to buy an AK47 there?

Yeah dude. Much easier than getting mail order from syria.

 

[Seven]

Wasn'\t one of the terrorist in paris attacks was a known refugee, or a guy that went in syria and came back?

I really can't understand how hard it is for a lawer to understand that process of accepting people without passports and any other identification purely on their word is fucked up? Some of them don't even speak sirian yet they introduce themselfs as syrian and the authorities has no other choise but to list them as syrians refugees... With processes like that anything can happen.

That's not what happens at all. Let me explain:

The first step is registering. If someone claims to be from Syria he is registered as such.

This doesn't mean he's acknowledged as a refugee though. Because what happens next is he will be interviewed about why he came to Europe. He will also be asked to provide documents that prove his story. His story and the documents will be compared to what we know about Syria. For instance if someone claims to be from Aleppo he will be asked in detail where he lived, what his job was, what Aleppo looked like, which street is where.. Stuff like that. If someone is not from Syria, he will, with 99% certainty, fail this test.

In no way do the authorities believe people simply on their word. In fact the opposite happens. I don't know where you get this idea, but you are very misinformed.

Again, you have no idea what Syrians are like it seems. These are not savages at all. I don't understand why you people think they come straight from the desert wearing medieval clothes.
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We do it here in Australia just fine. I'm not sure what's so noble about importing savages for cheap labour (75% men at some points) under the guise of asylum. And having your heads so far up your own asses thinking you can make them civilised by throwing money or whatever at them. Sure some of them may fit in ok but many are just savages pure and simple. Look at all the rapes that get swept under the rug.

We don't accept them for cheap labour. We accept them because we believe they will die if we don't. We do so because this is our legal obligation. And it is Australia's too by the way.

 

[ZoSo]

Well, this backfired a little bit.

 

[Raz]

We do it here in Australia just fine. I'm not sure what's so noble about importing savages for cheap labour (75% men at some points) under the guise of asylum. And having your heads so far up your own asses thinking you can make them civilised by throwing money or whatever at them. Sure some of them may fit in ok but many are just savages pure and simple. Look at all the rapes that get swept under the rug.

Rapes? It's not refugees (their saint) but it's the ones that are living there for generations and still can't integrate, thank god these new batch of number imigrants will be better.

And anyone thinking these immigrants were accepted because of migrant convention is blind. All they are are cheap labor and %GDP.