Ballon d'Or (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jethro
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2010 i agree with: imo Wesley Sneijder should have won that one.
2019: who was ur candidate instead? Van Dijk?
2012 ? Idk how anyone could argue about 2012 tho. He literally scored 91 goals that season and also registered 29 assists.
And this year: are people really surprised? i mean Messi's main criticizm is that he never won anything with his national team and is a pussy leader. Well finally he won something and also had a great tournament: offcourse that will give the Messi PR camp a lot of gas for pushing for ballondor.
Leva isnt nearly as popular as Messi, and we all know that emotion and bias play into these awards.
2019: who was ur candidate instead? Van Dijk?
2012 ? Idk how anyone could argue about 2012 tho. He literally scored 91 goals that season and also registered 29 assists.
And this year: are people really surprised? i mean Messi's main criticizm is that he never won anything with his national team and is a pussy leader. Well finally he won something and also had a great tournament: offcourse that will give the Messi PR camp a lot of gas for pushing for ballondor.
Leva isnt nearly as popular as Messi, and we all know that emotion and bias play into these awards.
France Football turned into a joke the last decade. Their decision to not give out a Ballon d’Or last year tells you everything about them.
Fifa and Uefa’s Awards are more serious these days, and no I don’t like these two organisations at all. But at least their voting system seems way more serious.
Fifa and Uefa’s Awards are more serious these days, and no I don’t like these two organisations at all. But at least their voting system seems way more serious.
2010 had also Robben and Iniesta. Robben almost single handedly (well not really, it's a team sport. But it looked like it) won Bayern a treble who were average before he arrived. And Iniesta won the world cup. Similar situation to Modric when he took it away from Ronaldo, with the difference than Barcelona didn't actually win the CL.
2019 you can put Van Dijk or Alisson, who won the Copa America additionally.
This year he won Copa America but what else? Early exit in CL and non existent this season for Paris. Lost league to a former teammate led team. And Copa America was a great achievement, I applaud him and the whole Argentina team for it, but it is not a competition on the level of EURO, so if you want to reward a NT player do it for a European.
2012 barca lost La Liga to Madrid with a superior team on their home ground, lost to underdogs Chelsea in CL, and there was no Copa America that year. There was Euro however, where his teammates again won the title, Ronaldo went out against them in semifinal with a weak (compared to other European powerhouses) Portugal on penalties only. I mean he scored a lot that year but so did Lewandowski this year. Seems like whatever Messi does is the more impressive feat in the eyes of the voters
2019 you can put Van Dijk or Alisson, who won the Copa America additionally.
This year he won Copa America but what else? Early exit in CL and non existent this season for Paris. Lost league to a former teammate led team. And Copa America was a great achievement, I applaud him and the whole Argentina team for it, but it is not a competition on the level of EURO, so if you want to reward a NT player do it for a European.
2012 barca lost La Liga to Madrid with a superior team on their home ground, lost to underdogs Chelsea in CL, and there was no Copa America that year. There was Euro however, where his teammates again won the title, Ronaldo went out against them in semifinal with a weak (compared to other European powerhouses) Portugal on penalties only. I mean he scored a lot that year but so did Lewandowski this year. Seems like whatever Messi does is the more impressive feat in the eyes of the voters
2010: as i said i completely agree with. Robben was also insane that year, but for me Snjeider was the standout candidate. A clear robbery.
2019: Messi won the golden boot, Fifa best player and scored 36 goals and had 13 assists in La liga + 12 CL goals (granted they all were for nothing when Barca bottled it to Liverpool). I dont really feel thats undeserved tbh, those are insane numbers. Van Dijk i could see being a deserving candidate but Alisson feels like a stretch.
This year he won the Copa America but what else?" : again he was Barca's best player by a mile and also in La Liga beating Benzema for the top scorer with 30 goals + 11 assists. 6 CL goals also. Copa del rey is a shit trophy , granted, so thats not really a big achievement. They could easily have given it to Lewa tho and Lewa for 2021 would be the morally right choice given last year was canceled. I also feel like he deserves it, he has been consistent for a long time.
In the end i dont really feel any of those years were hugely undeserved, bar the 2010 scandal. A lot of it comes down to the voters bias, but in the end "undeserved" feels like a wrong description to use. The players do their job and in the end the jury decides. The jury might be skewed and biased as fuck, but thats another story. The players deserve their credit for performing on a consistently world class level.
"Seems like whatever Messi does is the more impressive feat in the eyes of the voters": True, what Messi does will always be more impressive for the voters: Messi has a bigger fanbase, a strong PR machine and the likes of Lewa and Benz will always be "the little man" in these awards compared to the two biggest names: Messi or Ronaldo. Its inevitable.
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2019: Messi won the golden boot, Fifa best player and scored 36 goals and had 13 assists in La liga + 12 CL goals (granted they all were for nothing when Barca bottled it to Liverpool). I dont really feel thats undeserved tbh, those are insane numbers. Van Dijk i could see being a deserving candidate but Alisson feels like a stretch.
This year he won the Copa America but what else?" : again he was Barca's best player by a mile and also in La Liga beating Benzema for the top scorer with 30 goals + 11 assists. 6 CL goals also. Copa del rey is a shit trophy , granted, so thats not really a big achievement. They could easily have given it to Lewa tho and Lewa for 2021 would be the morally right choice given last year was canceled. I also feel like he deserves it, he has been consistent for a long time.
In the end i dont really feel any of those years were hugely undeserved, bar the 2010 scandal. A lot of it comes down to the voters bias, but in the end "undeserved" feels like a wrong description to use. The players do their job and in the end the jury decides. The jury might be skewed and biased as fuck, but thats another story. The players deserve their credit for performing on a consistently world class level.
"Seems like whatever Messi does is the more impressive feat in the eyes of the voters": True, what Messi does will always be more impressive for the voters: Messi has a bigger fanbase, a strong PR machine and the likes of Lewa and Benz will always be "the little man" in these awards compared to the two biggest names: Messi or Ronaldo. Its inevitable.
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Robben to me was bigger for Bayern than Sneijder was for inter, which was a more balanced team. In the world cup Sneijder stood out more, but Robben missed the group stage. In the knockout stage he was just as important (well, not counting the final lol).
The award is given for the calendar year, that's why in 2012 they gave it to him for those 90 goals. But Balon dor should come for team success in addition to individual success, you have to reward CL winners and CL performers more than League winners (and in years with int. football take that as a factor too). Liverpool that year had both. 101 points in the calendar year of 2019 in EPL, 28 goals conceded, just one defeat. Won CL. You have to reward one of them, as simple as that. Van Dijk was the consensus pick but it wouldn't go wrong with Alisson either since he had success with Brazil that summer too.
He beat Benz for top scorer, that's nice, but they finished 3rd and his former teammate led a smaller team to the title. And they went out in Ro16 of CL, that's too early. You have Chelsea who play great and consistent all year, same can be said for the Italian NT. It's clear he got it for the Copa America, which would be fine if he had other success to show for, and if there wasn't 2 superior competitions that year (Euro and CL) in which others have shined. If you want to reward the individual then Lewa has broken a decades old record (41 goals is impressive anywhere and BL has 34 games compared to La Liga who has 38) and this season he's on pace to do it again. That's comparable to Messi 2012 situation, where they rewarded the individual and not team success. And that's the main issue with this award, inconsistency. Pretty sure many of these voters don't even watch all the players regularly (I'd bet they don't watch more than 5 games of some of them)
One thing just crossed my mind, Deschamps probably cost Benzema a Balon dor in 2018. CL + WC + french paper that is giving the award. If Deschamps called him up, he'd have gotten it for sure
The award is given for the calendar year, that's why in 2012 they gave it to him for those 90 goals. But Balon dor should come for team success in addition to individual success, you have to reward CL winners and CL performers more than League winners (and in years with int. football take that as a factor too). Liverpool that year had both. 101 points in the calendar year of 2019 in EPL, 28 goals conceded, just one defeat. Won CL. You have to reward one of them, as simple as that. Van Dijk was the consensus pick but it wouldn't go wrong with Alisson either since he had success with Brazil that summer too.
He beat Benz for top scorer, that's nice, but they finished 3rd and his former teammate led a smaller team to the title. And they went out in Ro16 of CL, that's too early. You have Chelsea who play great and consistent all year, same can be said for the Italian NT. It's clear he got it for the Copa America, which would be fine if he had other success to show for, and if there wasn't 2 superior competitions that year (Euro and CL) in which others have shined. If you want to reward the individual then Lewa has broken a decades old record (41 goals is impressive anywhere and BL has 34 games compared to La Liga who has 38) and this season he's on pace to do it again. That's comparable to Messi 2012 situation, where they rewarded the individual and not team success. And that's the main issue with this award, inconsistency. Pretty sure many of these voters don't even watch all the players regularly (I'd bet they don't watch more than 5 games of some of them)
One thing just crossed my mind, Deschamps probably cost Benzema a Balon dor in 2018. CL + WC + french paper that is giving the award. If Deschamps called him up, he'd have gotten it for sure
For me , Van Dijk was the main reason for Liverpools overall defensive stability, not Alisson but a CB will always be more attractive than a GK so its hard for Alisson to edge him out in these types of awards.
Highlighted texts: nailed it. There seems to be no clear conditions or consistency for this vote: thats why i see this as an emotional award and why the bigger names will always have an edge over others.
Highlighted texts: nailed it. There seems to be no clear conditions or consistency for this vote: thats why i see this as an emotional award and why the bigger names will always have an edge over others.
@zizinho
Agreed about Robben. If not for the Messi/Ronaldo era, I'm almost certain he would've won a Ballon d'Or. The guy was outstanding, shame injuries prevented him reaching the heights his potential and performances showed possible.
He was one of the most exciting players we ever had and I ever seen. I said it many times, but Coman, Sane and Gnabry just doesn't come close in terms of pure excitement as a fan. At least to me.
Ribery also had this ability, but Robben just more.
Agreed about Robben. If not for the Messi/Ronaldo era, I'm almost certain he would've won a Ballon d'Or. The guy was outstanding, shame injuries prevented him reaching the heights his potential and performances showed possible.
He was one of the most exciting players we ever had and I ever seen. I said it many times, but Coman, Sane and Gnabry just doesn't come close in terms of pure excitement as a fan. At least to me.
Ribery also had this ability, but Robben just more.
